"Unprecedented Modding Tools"

[SJSerio]

On the official Civ V website, Firaxis lists Unprecedented Modding Tools as one of the features. Specifically:

With unprecedented modding tools, players will have unlimited options for modifying Civ V any way they like.

Considering that the word tools is plural, I am interested to see what they will be. Any thoughts?

(I'm putting some of my thougts and ideas in the below spoiler in case you would like to supply your own thougts first before reading mine)

Spoiler :

For me, I would like to see an external map editor for starters. The internal one with Civ IV could be very difficult to use. When I first got the game, it became virtually impossible to use due to the fact that my computer (though above the requirements) was very taxed by it. The other problem was creating new maps with predefined civ locations could be very problematic. Often, I would have to leave the map up and running over several days while I worked on a map. Exiting in the middle could cause problems when trying to go back in later to edit.

I would also like to see the use of a database for doing basic mods (instead of using xml). Something that is user-friendly for the rest of us.

Something that I have mentioned in other threads here would be create-a- tools which are kind of like the tools in Spore/The Sims. The main difference would be that the ones for those games are part of the main gameplay while Civ would be side tools. However, the principal is similar and could be used to make quick plug-and-play elements like new Civs, leaders, units, buildings, etc. For models of the elements, the player would have access to a simple modeler that can allow them to change certain aspects like colors (hair, skin, clothing) and attire (from a basic library of clothing that covers the different ages and locations like Europe, Asia, etc). Facial features of leaders and the like may be minimally editable, but not necessary. Advanced skinning would still be available to those more advanced at doing such, but I am just looking for something that covers the basics.

Well, those are just some things that I am hoping to see. I was a bit dissapointed with the modding aspect of Civ IV because it seemed to cater strictly to those more advanced at modding. They could always include the more advanced things too for those with the ability to do so... I just hope they don't forget about the rest of us this time.

 

[Dale]

Do I smell marketing hype? Maybe.

But things to improve modding (based of Civ4's tools):
- External map editor
- XML editor in easy to use language
- Less multi-file reliance

There's no point asking for a python or SDK editor, as that would be near impossible. Those languages just don't work that way, and would severely limit the ability to add new code.

 

[Yui108]

I thought the tools of C3C were top notch.

 

[Tholish]

World builder is fine, whatever.

Keep XML, its perfect. Maybe include a guide so people don't have to learn what stuff is by trial and error.

Use another language than Python for scripting. Maybe C. Similarly, include a guide.

Use a more available compiler, maybe Microsoft Visual C++ 2008. And include a guide. And actually write the code to be easy to modify, where its not that much trouble.

Make the art easier to mod. For example, in Civ 4, you can use XML to determine which animation and background goes with which leaderhead model, but you have to use Nifscope to "reskin" a model, ie give Augustus blue hair or something by referencing a diferent dds file, ie flat graphic that is used to "paint" the model. It would be nice if the skins could also be mixed and matched in xml. Maybe even include some kind of basic model tweaking utility.

How about an AI editor? Maybe this would work via being able to define trigger conditions and reactions to them, along with a random selecter or prioritizing integer in case of multiple options being viable. Sort of like random events.

And for goodness sake no more "gamefont.tga." Why could that not be done like the rest of the art?

 

[Chimera1804]

- External map editor

Amen. The map editor for Civ III was, to me, almost perfect...why did they have to change that?

 

[Hadrean]

I still play Civ III because the map editor was just sooo easy to use. I hope they have a similar editor for ciV.

 

[Dale]

Use a more available compiler, maybe Microsoft Visual C++ 2008. And include a guide. And actually write the code to be easy to modify, where its not that much trouble.

We'll probably find the version we have to use will be the version that was common at the start of dev. Civ4 was a couple years in dev, so that's why it was VS2003 (not 2005). I assume they started in 2008 so it might be in VS2008, otherwise we might have to find 2005 (depending when in 2008 they started coding).

 

[l3illyl3ob]

I think what this amounts to is that there may or may not be an external map editor and there may be a database editor. A database editor would be pretty cool though, an actual UI to add new civs, units, techs, etc, without having to sort through multiple files and work out the XML would save a lot of time and be pretty user-friendly.

We don't know if there will be more python scripting or how that stuff will work, but while you can probably expect lots of open code to modify again, don't expect much more than a database editor in terms of actual tools.

 

[SJSerio]

I still play Civ III because the map editor was just sooo easy to use. I hope they have a similar editor for ciV.

I don't play Civ III anymore, but I did like the map editor much better than the one with Civ IV. And the Rules Editor was much better than sorting through XML files.

 

[PieceOfMind]

With unprecedented modding tools, players will have unlimited options for modifying Civ V any way they like

.
This is what convinces me it is mainly marketing speak.
I can modify Civ 5 any way I like? That is rubbish and I would almost bet my life savings on that.

It would imply releasing the code for the entire game including the engine (now that would be unprecedented!). How can a game that has multiplayer as a component be completely open to be modded in any way?

 

[SJSerio]

Civ IV was pretty flexible and allowed (those with the know how... and time) to create some pretty incredible mods that deviated quite a bit from the core game.

 

[Gamemaster77]

I would definitly rather go back to an external map editor.

 

[Jeckel]

Civ 4 was awesome, except for the core graphics engine, there is nothing you can't mod it to do, if you have the time. That's not to say some core tools, also with their source code released so they can be modded, wouldn't be good. A map editor is a must, the whole in-game world builder thing was a horrible idea to begin with.

I'm all for them making whatever tools they want to, but it better in no way mean that they aren't going to also release the source code. I am afraid Civ4 modding may have ruined me and if there is no source code to play with that might severally limit its replayablity for me.

 

[Jezz]

I still play Civ III because the map editor was just sooo easy to use. I hope they have a similar editor for ciV.

+1

Never downloaded a single scenario, or made one. But on a weekly basis, I'm playing and tweaking with the rules and map of my own games in the Civ3 editor.

 

[civ editor11]

Visual C++ 2010 anyone?

 

[Cilpot]

+1

Never downloaded a single scenario, or made one. But on a weekly basis, I'm playing and tweaking with the rules and map of my own games in the Civ3 editor.

I do excactly the same. To me, being able to modify rules/maps easily is an important part of the core game.

 

[civ editor11]

Maybe they could give us a way into the exe? That would let us do a whole bunch more.

 

[mathepic]

Maybe they could give us a way into the exe? That would let us do a whole bunch more.

Probably not. They are probably linking in a lot of libraries statically. Many of these libraries probably aren't free software and probably cost quite a bit of money.

On a side note, I personally hope they compile with GCC and use OpenGL, but that probably won't happen.

 

[The_J]

Maybe they could give us a way into the exe?

Will never ever happen.
Because then everybody could re-invent the whole game.

On a side note, I personally hope they compile with GCC and use OpenGL, but that probably won't happen.

DirectX11 support is confirmed, so that will sure not happen.

 

[blade117]

DX11? That out slready? I thought DX10 was the newest one.