Unrestricted Leader/Civ combos

[Micky Onimusha]

This was added in BtS (apparently, I haven't got it yet). I'm just curious what other people's thoughts are on this for FfH2?

Obviously, it's never going to be balanced, and it makes no sense from a Lore perspective, but it could be some fun. I doubt it'd be disabled in the BtS version of FfH2, so I thought it'd at least be a little fun to speculate on some possible combos based on the knowledge we have right now.

For example, Cardith Lorda leading the Khazad. The Khazad seem to do well with small empires benefitting from the Dwarven Vaults, so they could have some crazily productive super-cities under Cardith.

There's several other possibilities of course, but I pointlessly speculating.

 

[Kael]

We will definitly allow it to be used. Just as you say it could be an interesting option for some players (and those that don't like it doen't have to use it). In fact as Im rewriting the FfH functions Im trying to keep this function in mind so that it works well if leaders are switched around (so for example hippus mounted unit bonuses are now granted by the special hippus stables instead of a trait so they stay with the civ, not the leader).

 

[Micky Onimusha]

We will definitly allow it to be used. Just as you say it could be an interesting option for some players (and those that don't like it doen't have to use it). In fact as Im rewriting the FfH functions Im trying to keep this function in mind so that it works well if leaders are switched around (so for example hippus mounted unit bonuses are now granted by the special hippus stables instead of a trait so they stay with the civ, not the leader).

Ah, so that's why that change occured (was curious as to why it was changed that way, makes sense).

 

[sumit1207]

Cardith Lorda of Ljosalfar obviously is overpowered. Highly populated supercities with no health/happiness issues would be awesome.

 

[Jono]

No one's even considering what you could do with OO and Grigori? Water-walking cannibalizing hero Eidolons anyone?

 

[Micky Onimusha]

No one's even considering what you could do with OO and Grigori? Water-walking cannibalizing hero Eidolons anyone?

Ooh, that's a good point. Grigori with access to religious units, that could be some fun

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm pretty sure that while another Grigori leader would be able to adopt a religion, they would still be unable to build temples or religious disciples. That is a civ restriction, not a trait restriction.

What do you think about Cardith of the Khazad? The Khazad AI would keep him from building too many settlements, so his culture wouldn't make everyone declare war on him. Also, you can't get a more productive city than one with both an overflowing dwarven vault and a city hub. His expansive trait would also balance the health penalty of dwarven/RoK buildings, and adaptive would let you choose finantial to keep the vaults full.

How about Sheelba or Jonas of the Luchuirp? I can think of no better civ to use with a high AC (except Hyborem and maybe Sheaim). The AC effects wouldn't hurt your golems, and the barb trait works well since golems wouldn't be xp farming anyway. Also, Sheelba's traits make Barnaxus start with magic resistant and combat 1 (which grants a free empower 1 to all golems right from the start). Unfortunately, it doesn't grant these promotions to the golems who couldn't get them any other way.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

I'm pretty sure that while another Grigori leader would be able to adopt a religion, they would still be unable to build temples or religious disciples. That is a civ restriction, not a trait restriction.

Mm, I looked it up, no temples or priests (which puts a hole in the "Water Walking Cannibal" hopes, since the Stygian Guards reqs. a Temple). Still, at least they can get some added Happiness from religions and use religion specific civics.

 

[xAlephx]

Varn of the Balseraphs is tempting. Best mix of Perp and Keelyn available - guaranteed Creative + any one other, also starts out as good so adopting OO will make you neutral for easy access to their excellent Nature/Mind/Chaos Druids.

 

[KingOfLands]

Tebryn of the Amurites would be my go-to combination, I think. It's very hard to argue with cave of ancestors-powered summoners.

 

[Jono]

I suggest you take away the Adaptive trait. It was only added for the civs with one leader because of the lack of flexibility. But with Unrestricted Leaders, anything is possible.

 

[Gamestation]

What if you wanted to play a normal game?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Personally I think the Adaptive trait should really be reworked; Right now it is all hardcoded. If you give the adaptive trait to another leader it will not work. Also, if you decide to give a leader an extra trait, he will revert back to the default trait (with the second one changed), losing any extra traits you had given them.

 

[GeeJo]

Hyborem would cripple any civ that he leads except the Infernals. Fallow without Manes = size 1 cities for the entire game.

What if you wanted to play a normal game?

Unrestricted leaders is off by default. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to change a thing

 

[Gamestation]

Unrestricted leaders is off by default. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to change a thing

I wasn't wondering how we would avoid these strange combinations, I know it is an option. I was responding to Jono suggesting that adaptive be taken away. I don't see any reason why it should be taken away. It could be reworked like what MagisterCultuum wants but flat out taken away because this option is available?

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Hyborem would cripple any civ that he leads except the Infernals. Fallow without Manes = size 1 cities for the entire game.

Hmm, quite true. And I wonder what would happen if he started a game and then someone summoned the Infernals, heh. Two Hyborems?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm pretty sure thats what happens. You know you can already test the new feature by making more leaders available to more civs in the xml file.

However, since Hyborem and Basium are unplayable, it would still require a change to their leaderheads xml to play as Hyborem without the manes. It would not, however, require any changes to play as the Infernals with an non-Fallow trait leader. One time I made Sabathiel an alternate Mercurian leader and started the game as Mercurians, then built the Mercurian Gate to bring more Mercurians, under Basium, into the world. The death of good units resulted in the birth of an angel for each of us.

 

[kenken244]

Cardith Lorda of Ljosalfar obviously is overpowered. Highly populated supercities with no health/happiness issues would be awesome.

ive tried it out before. even the elves cant get enough health and happiness to sustain the city

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Teebryn Arbandi of Elohim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Caradoc]

You can switch traits by editing LeaderHeadInfos. This provides some variety without a radical realignment.