Updates to City Names

[Science Rules]

Sorry about distracting you. I think you are probably right. I based my earlier statement on a reference that stated that the Hasburgs annexed Pressburg in 1301 and held it for a few decades. Apparently, the Hasburgs exploited the chaos in Hungary as well as the claim of Agnes of Austria, who was the widow of Andrew III and a member of the Hasburgs. Once Hungary got back on its feet mid-century, Pozsony was restored to them.

Nonetheless, I think Austria is far too weak in this mod. In history, the Hasburgs ended up controlling most of Hungary (except the parts controlled by Ottomans). However, in this mod that never happens. Giving Austria more/better military units at their spawn is one thing, but we also need to add friction to the Austrian-Hungarian diplomatic relationship. I thought a fight over Pozsony might be a good solution.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Sorry about distracting you.

Don't worry, I like reading about history pretty much, that's what distracted me, not you
And it's probably me who should apologize, if some parts of my posts sound rather intense...
You have to understand, that every similar subject (territorial debate) is very sensitive for me - and most of the hungarians - as 20th century history turned out to be very harsh on my poor Hungary

I think you are probably right. I based my earlier statement on a reference that stated that the Hasburgs annexed Pressburg in 1301 and held it for a few decades. Apparently, the Hasburgs exploited the chaos in Hungary as well as the claim of Agnes of Austria, who was the widow of Andrew III and a member of the Hasburgs. Once Hungary got back on its feet mid-century, Pozsony was restored to them.

Actually, Hungary got back on his feet pretty fast. It couldn't have been a few decades, I'm pretty sure that at latest in 1312 the whole country was under Charles's rule.
And in 1370, lands under the King of Hungary (personalunion with Poland and vassals included): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Louis_role.jpg

Spoiler :

Can you link me to your source? Didn't find anything on this, and I'm really interested what happened with Pozsony in 1301.
Maybe it was only a couple months, or the annexation only happened in paper?

Nonetheless, I think Austria is far too weak in this mod. In history, the Hasburgs ended up controlling most of Hungary (except the parts controlled by Ottomans). However, in this mod that never happens. Giving Austria more/better military units at their spawn is one thing, but we also need to add friction to the Austrian-Hungarian diplomatic relationship. I thought a fight over Pozsony might be a good solution.

Yeah I agree with this, Austria should get stronger, it was a serious power among the HRE even before 1500. I already improved slightly their starting units, and I plan to strengthen them further.
Nevertheless, the Habsburgs ended up to be Kings of Hungary only because the Ottomans totally crushed it in a few campaigns between 1526-1552.
Btw most of our Habsburg rulers were elected hungarian kings, crowned with the holy crown. De facto Austria never conquered Hungary
So there should certainly be nothing like "Austria should get Hungary in all games in RFCE"
Only if the Ottomans (or any other civ) had already weakened them enough

 

[Kartoffelvampir]

We really should update the Byzantine city map soon
If you want to start it, I will upload the latest version here

Well, i could take a look at it, i have some time.

 

[Michael Vick]

Pressburg changed hands between the Austrians and Hungarians multiple times before the fall of Hungary to the Ottomans. Pressburg Castle was never captured, but the city only became assimilated into Austria along with the rest of NW Hungary (Royal Hungary) after the decline of Hungary became inevitable after the Battle of Mohacs. Pressburg was consistently ruled by the Kings of Austria from 1526 until the end of World War I. Nothing happens before 1526 significant enough to imply solid Austrian rule of Hungary. Pressburg was only Austrian from 1301 to 1338 as a result of complications by that previously mentioned widow of Andrew III.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Hungary

It makes sense as a player to not want to fight Hungary to take Pressburg, but flipping would be inaccurate since Austria's spawn is a long way off from an event that could be represented by the flip. Also, Hungary shouldn't be weakened so drastically during a period of relative stability and power in the 1300s.

Ideally, in the game the Ottomans should reach Buda in the 1500s, causing the collapse of Hungary from instability. Pozsony's proximity to Wien and high levels of Austrian culture should have it absorbed into Austria (Along with Croatia and any cities Hungary founds North of Pozsony but you know, we can't guarantee that).

 

[The Turk]

Last time I played as the Austrians, I saw a super strong Bulgaria and Byzantium which vassalized the Ottomans (who ended up controlling one city). Has this ever happened to you guys? I'm afraid after we weakened the Ottomans, they might have gone too weak, to reach into the Balkans, but perhaps it was just that one time, whats your guys experience, from you LATEST games?

 

[Samsa]

Last time I played as the Austrians, I saw a super strong Bulgaria and Byzantium which vassalized the Ottomans (who ended up controlling one city). Has this ever happened to you guys? I'm afraid after we weakened the Ottomans, they might have gone too weak, to reach into the Balkans, but perhaps it was just that one time, whats your guys experience, from you LATEST games?

Came across something similar, it just were the Byzantines wich the Ottomans are vassalized to. Just controlling 3 cities.
You might be right with too weak Ottomans!

 

[Science Rules]

Can you link me to your source? Didn't find anything on this, and I'm really interested what happened with Pozsony in 1301.
Maybe it was only a couple months, or the annexation only happened in paper?

Unfortunately, My source is English language Wikipedia, which I should've taken with a grain of salt. This is what the wiki article says:

Between 1301 and 1323, the castle (together with Pozsony county) was held by the Dukes of Austria who granted it to Otto von Tellesbrunn. In 1323, the dukes transferred Pozsony county back to King Charles I of Hungary and Devín Castle became the possession of the heads (ispán) of the county.

Another wiki article says:

In 1287–1291 the city is captured by the Austrian duke Albert of Habsburg. Albert is defeated by the Hungarian noble Matthew Csák of Trenčín, who was the leader of Bratislava and Trenčín counties at that time and Bratislava belongs to Hungary again.

...

After the death of the Hungarian king Andrew III, Bratislava is annexed by Austria in 1301, because Andrew's widow gave the town to the Habsburgs. The Habsburgs return it to Hungary in 1322, but occupy it again. It is only in 1338 that the town finally becomes part of Hungary again.

The Mate Csak article mentions that Pozsony was gifted to Andrew III's widow, Agnes. This article also cites a reference to a book, which I do not possess, but the ISBN is 9632817362.

As I said before, you are probably right. I feel guilty for relying on Wikipedia so much when I should've known better. Nonetheless, we need a solution to make Hungary collapse near the Austrian spawn about a third of the time. Another third of the time they should collapse a few centuries later due to Ottoman invasion and the last third of the time they should overwhelm Austria and the Ottomans and survive until the end. Unfortunately, the last scenario happens in nearly all my games.

Maybe the solution is a stronger Mongol invasion? In my recent game as Hungary I saw zero Mongols in my territory. However, Kievan Rus survived the Mongols in that game as well so I don't know how this can be changed.

 

[Morholt]

Last time I played as the Austrians, I saw a super strong Bulgaria and Byzantium which vassalized the Ottomans (who ended up controlling one city). Has this ever happened to you guys? I'm afraid after we weakened the Ottomans, they might have gone too weak, to reach into the Balkans, but perhaps it was just that one time, whats your guys experience, from you LATEST games?

Seems that in about half of my games, the Ottomans conquer Byzantium and push into the balkans. I think the problem is not that the Ottomans are too weak, rather that the Seljuks are. Byzantium really should lose control over almost all Anatolia after Manzikert.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Seems that in about half of my games, the Ottomans conquer Byzantium and push into the balkans. I think the problem is not that the Ottomans are too weak, rather that the Seljuks are. Byzantium really should lose control over almost all Anatolia after Manzikert.

I agree with this
Stronger Seljuks should dominate most of Anatolia at least for a few decades if Byzantium is played by the AI

 

[AbsintheRed]

As I said before, you are probably right. I feel guilty for relying on Wikipedia so much when I should've known better. Nonetheless, we need a solution to make Hungary collapse near the Austrian spawn about a third of the time. Another third of the time they should collapse a few centuries later due to Ottoman invasion and the last third of the time they should overwhelm Austria and the Ottomans and survive until the end. Unfortunately, the last scenario happens in nearly all my games.

Maybe the solution is a stronger Mongol invasion? In my recent game as Hungary I saw zero Mongols in my territory. However, Kievan Rus survived the Mongols in that game as well so I don't know how this can be changed.

I agree with you on most things, and as I said, I plan to make Austria stronger.
But Hungary should never collapse at Austria's spawn, Hungary was at her peak in the 14th and 15th century

In my last game testgame as Hungary I saw 2 or 3 stacks of Mongols spawning in my territory.
Please try it again, and report back if there is still no track of the horde in your game.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Well, i could take a look at it, i have some time.

Alright, I put the Byzantine city name labels on the latest map, you can start working on it
But after a quick look, it seems that this map hasn't been updated for years

 

[The Turk]

What needs to happen is that 3Miro needs to take the Seljuk Horse Archer barbarian in SoI or from somewhere else (the current Seljuk model is ahistorical and strange), and just have tons of them be spawned into central Anatolia. This is what really needs to happen

 

[AbsintheRed]

What needs to happen is that 3Miro needs to take the Seljuk Horse Archer barbarian in SoI or from somewhere else (the current Seljuk model is ahistorical and strange), and just have tons of them be spawned into central Anatolia. This is what really needs to happen

What needs to happen is that you stop pushing your thoughts on RFCE. Some of your ideas are good, but you always do that, and it's kind of annoying. That's why you always get into heated discussions with everyone (kochman, FakeShady, etc...). This is what really needs to happen

 

[Caliom]

What needs to happen is that 3Miro needs to take the Seljuk Horse Archer barbarian in SoI or from somewhere else (the current Seljuk model is ahistorical and strange), and just have tons of them be spawned into central Anatolia. This is what really needs to happen

I don't think that tons of seljuks is a good idea to solve the problem. Because the problem is not that the seljuks didn't conquer enough byzantine cities. The problem is that they cant hold them, because
1. They sacrifice all their units leaving no defenders in their cities. This makes it easy for Byzantium to recapture them.
2. Cities flip back because of strong byzantine culture.

Also barbarian controlled cities are way to passive in general, they seem to build no units at all.

I would try these things:
1. Let the seljuks spawn with some defensive units.
2. Do not allow cultural flips for Byzantium.
3. Make the barbarian player build units.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I don't think that tons of seljuks is a good idea to solve the problem. Because the problem is not that the seljuks didn't conquer enough byzantine cities. The problem is that they cant hold them, because
1. They sacrifice all their units leaving no defenders in their cities. This makes it easy for Byzantium to recapture them.
2. Cities flip back because of strong byzantine culture.

Also barbarian controlled cities are way to passive in general, they seem to build no units at all.

I would try these things:
1. Let the seljuks spawn with some defensive units.
2. Do not allow cultural flips for Byzantium.
3. Make the barbarian player build units.

Actually I don't mind if the Byzantine reconquer some, or even most of their cities by the time the Ottomans spawn.
Seljuks are just there to weaken Byzantium, not to crush them.
Right now they are not effective enough, so will be strengthened to conquer more cities, but I don't think they should keep them.

On the other hand, Islam should remain in the cities which were conquered by the Seljuks
This way the Ottomans will get cities with Islam in it, and will more likely stay Islam in most games.

AFAIK Seljuks spread Islam to these cities on conquest, but a strong Byzantium usually gets rid of it by the time the Ottomans spawn.
Maybe we should disable prosecutors for the Byzantine AI?

 

[3Miro]

Actually I don't mind if the Byzantine reconquer some, or even most of their cities by the time the Ottomans spawn.
Seljuks are just there to weaken Byzantium, not to crush them.
Right now they are not effective enough, so will be strengthened to conquer more cities, but I don't think they should keep them.

On the other hand, Islam should remain in the cities which were conquered by the Seljuks
This way the Ottomans will get cities with Islam in it, and will more likely stay Islam in most games.

AFAIK Seljuks spread Islam to these cities on conquest, but a strong Byzantium usually gets rid of it by the time the Ottomans spawn.
Maybe we should disable prosecutors for the Byzantine AI?

Defensive Seljuk units may be a good idea. A few Crossbows and maybe couple of Pikes.

Seljuks do spread Islam, but once the invasion is over, the Byz eventually retake everything back and prosecute Islam out. The way I have it not is that Islam does come back right before the Ottoman spawn. You should see many Byz cities in Anatolia get Islam right before the Ottoman spawn.

 

[Caliom]

Maybe we should disable prosecutors for the Byzantine AI?

Telling the AI to not build prosecutors should be easy. Just set the UnitAIWeight to -100 for Justinian in the leaderhead.xml.
Prosecutors use UNITAI_MERCHANT, this is only used by great merchants and great spies, both units that cant be build. So changing the UnitAIWeight shouldnt conflict with other units.

 

[3Miro]

Telling the AI to not build prosecutors should be easy. Just set the UnitAIWeight to -100 for Justinian in the leaderhead.xml.
Prosecutors use UNITAI_MERCHANT, this is only used by great merchants and great spies, both units that cant be build. So changing the UnitAIWeight shouldnt conflict with other units.

Prosecutors are units made by me, hence they don't fall in the regular mechanics. They are build like the Missionaries, i.e. instead of a missionary, every now and then, a nation would build a Prosecutors.

Preventing Byz AI from prosecuting is also ahistoric.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Prosecutors are units made by me, hence they don't fall in the regular mechanics. They are build like the Missionaries, i.e. instead of a missionary, every now and then, a nation would build a Prosecutors.

Preventing Byz AI from prosecuting is also ahistoric.

If Islam spreads to most Anatolian cities right before the Ottoman spawn, then there is no need for preventing prosecution

 

[Opera]

A few cities should still be tough to retake for Byzantium though; they didn't fully recover from the Seljuks. Might be a good idea to spawn guardian units on city conquest in some provinces.

Also, it's a general "problem" with the barbs: they do nothing with their cities. Or barely. Independents work more like regular civilizations though. Maybe - just maybe - turn some of the barb Seljuk conquests into independents at some point? It would also be a nice way to represent states like Rûm.