USA and China Vrs. World! (in a "fair war")

[RedRalph]

So you think the US could basically starve the rest of the world out, with its navy. Dont you think the rest of the world could throw its whole navys at the US, lose them, but destroy the USN in the process and have access to the seas? Do you realise how spectacularly the Us agricultural industry would collapse without the oil it needs?

 

[Fayadi]

China + USA ! My dream team of capitalist world domination! Muahahaha!

China + USA will win against the world because

China + USA 's steel production makes up more than 50% of the world.

China's manufacturing capability + US technology + Chinese manpower + US air bombing = World having less industrial capacity to build tanks and planes than China and USA because of Chinese manufacturing capability and the bombing of world factories.

If I am the Combined Force Supreme Commander (USA+China), I would command the combined forces to invade and defeat one nation at a time.

1. Joint US-China invasion of Russia. China invading from Manchuria and US invading from Alaska. The combined force meet in Siberia. Pre-emptive strike on nuclear capabilities before the invasion. The defeat of Russia would secure China northern flank.

2. Invade Korea and Japan next.

3. After the 3 big military power Russia, Japan and Korea is defeated. The easy states will be next to go and that is South East Asia(for resources also)

4. After South East Asia is secured, Australia next to capture its uranium production.

5. Countries to the China's North and South is defeated. India will be next to go, and then Pakistan, and then Iran, and then towards Middle-East. By this stage, Europe would have concentrated most of its military power in middle east as the fall of Miiddle East will ultimately means the defeat of the rest of the world. Of course European military simply cannot handle the thousands of F-22's and 15,000 M1A2's (jointly produced by China + USA) and thousands of AH-64.


If USA outsource to China all of its high tech hardware. No way the world can win.

For the opposition- other than Europe and Russia, the rest of the world simply do not have the combination technical know-how and mass manufacturing facility to mass produce high-tech hardware such as F-22 or M1A2 for example.

The rest of the world might have more economic power. But with US+China's concentrated attack, it is almost impossible to defend the thrust of double superpower attacks. If the rest of the world is concentrated in a small continent like Australia and they have to fight US+China. Then the double-superpower will have problem

 

[Bill3000]

What would count as a "win" for the American-Chinese alliance?

 

[Fayadi]

Uhmmm all governors of each region of the world is selected by Beijing and Washington. Rest of the world paying tax to Beijing and Washington.


As a side note, my dream is to see China and USA united when the peak oil come. This way we can continue our economic prosperity and let the rest of the world suffer but not us!

 

[Bill3000]

Then inc massive amounts of guerrillas across the entire world?

I'm just wondering if it's to destroy the military and infrastructural capability of the entire world or genuine conquest.

 

[Fayadi]

The primary objective is to make them surrender of course and install puppet governments. There is no need to destroy if they surrender already.

You see the world ruled by China and USA will make the entire world become the image of China and USA. That would be cool.

If mankind want to build massive spaceships for space colonization. World government might be necessary. The Chinese and the American makes good leadership for Earthlings.

 

[Steph]

Of course European military simply cannot handle the thousands of F-22's and 15,000 M1A2's (jointly produced by China + USA) and thousands of AH-64.

Good plan... Except ouf of the 15,000 M1A2 built by China+USA, 10,000 are not working after one week of use, and 4,500 can't be use because the paint used by the Chinese is toxic for the crew .

The ROTW would produces aircrafts, tanks, etc at a similar rate as China or USA.

We have the economies of Europe, Russia, Japan and India with us.

 

[Bill3000]

The primary objective is to make them surrender of course and install puppet governments. There is no need to destroy if they surrender already.

So the surrender of the civil governments count as a win? The essentially inevitable worldwide unconventional warfare wouldn't count as part of the war? The OP does not limit the terms of the war to conventional war only, only "clean" war; war in which significantly disadvantages a conventional power in unconventional warfare.

I do not see how putting puppet governments across the entire world would end the conflict.

 

[amadeus]

Would the countries fight to the death? Because I imagine we'd be able to get lots of countries to surrender pretty easily.

 

[Bill3000]

That's essentially what I'm asking, and if we're dealing with world conquest as Fayadi hypothesizes, I don't see why not.

 

[Yeekim]

The whole premise is so silly it is impossible to discuss in a sensible manner.

 

[Bill3000]

The premise is incomplete as it does not define the objectives of the conflict.

 

[Fayadi]

That's essentially what I'm asking, and if we're dealing with world conquest as Fayadi hypothesizes, I don't see why not.

Guerrilla warfare is police action. Major military action will cease when rest of the world surrenders.

When the people of the rest of the third world countries realize that the new government is more competent in administering the country than their previous government. Guerrilla warfare will substantially cease and the locals will return to normal life.

Probably in places like Middle East, Russia and Europe that guerrillas will be a problem. China theoritically could draft 200 million soldiers to contain guerrillas. There are a lot of brutal creative ways to suppress guerrillas too. The problem of guerrillas is overhyped.

The benefit of US-China world domination could be

1. One world currency
2. Could direct the entire resources of Earth to build space ships for example.
3. More economic integration.
4. Set a world agenda with teeth to back it up. UN agenda are just talk-shops.

 

[Bill3000]

Probably in places like Middle East, Russia and Europe that guerrillas will be a problem. China theoritically could draft 200 million soldiers to contain guerrillas. There are a lot of brutal creative ways to suppress guerrillas too. The problem of guerrillas is overhyped.

Yeah, it's so overhyped that it just created the current government of China.

 

[Fayadi]

When CCP is founded in 1921, China has no effective central government. Sure in the 1930's Kuomintang were in charge most of China, they almost destroyed CCP but the Japanese invasion changed all that. CCP would have been defeated had the Japanese not invaded China in 1937. By the 1940's CCP is no longer a guerrilla force but a major opposition power to the central government.
Many factors led to the relative rise in power of CCP.

A strong central government that has undivided attention will be able to suppress guerrillas without problem.
Like the Iraq war for example, I think one of the primary reasons of the insurgency problems in from 2003 and to the time of the surge is because

-US military disbanded the Iraqi military force which frees up unemployed young men on the street which can be brainwashed into the insurgents camp.
-Not enough troops because of Rumsfeld stubborn insistence on invading Iraq with lesser troops. More troops on the ground in the early years of the Iraq war would have created the success of 'The Surge" much earlier.

 

[Kerozine]

Nobody wins, but everybody loses.

 

[aelf]

I don't think it would be guerrillas in Europe. I think it would be a massive pan-European Nazi-stlye regime (without the racist part possibly). And this time, it will be allied with or including Russia.

A massive pan-Arab alliance is also not funny. You think terrorism is bad? It would 1000x worse a jihad. Watch China get torn apart as support (and not just from Muslims) for internal conflicts rise dramatically. Everyone and their mother with a bone to pick with the government will soon be out with a vengeance. The Chinese military can hardly deal with external threats when it's stuck deal with internal ones. So China immune? I don't think so. That leaves the US. Really, how long can their navy last?

 

[HannibalBarka]

The OP needs to define what makes a win? killing everyone? directlty controling other nations? is anyone allowed to surrender alone (say Swiss sue for peace and ask to be neural ) ?
without defining what is a win we just can't say wh's going to win.

 

[Fayadi]

I don't think it would be guerrillas in Europe. I think it would be a massive pan-European Nazi-stlye regime (without the racist part possibly). And this time, it will be allied with or including Russia.

A massive pan-Arab alliance is also not funny. You think terrorism is bad? It would 1000x worse a jihad. Watch China get torn apart as support (and not just from Muslims) for internal conflicts rise dramatically. Everyone and their mother with a bone to pick with the government will soon be out with a vengeance. The Chinese military can hardly deal with external threats when it's stuck deal with internal ones. So China immune? I don't think so. That leaves the US. Really, how long can their navy last?

We are talking about a scenario once US+China has defeated the entire world and the problems of guerrillas that comes after that. Bill3000 said that war will not be over when there are still guerrillas. I think you are misunderstanding the direction of the thread.

The Chinese military can hardly deal with external threats when it's stuck deal with internal ones

What internal threat? You mean Tibet riots? It would be peanut if Chinese government get more brutal. China only has 2.3 million active soldiers when it has a population of 1.3 billion. China could draft 200 million soldiers in a global war. Only 50,000 troops is needed to silence Tibet.

 

[Patroklos]

So you think the US could basically starve the rest of the world out, with its navy. Dont you think the rest of the world could throw its whole navys at the US, lose them, but destroy the USN in the process and have access to the seas? Do you realise how spectacularly the Us agricultural industry would collapse without the oil it needs?

Yes. Have you actually looked at the navies of those involved?

The only more spectacular agricultural failure than that of North America without oil would be that of Europe without oil.

What would count as a "win" for the American-Chinese alliance?

It wasn't specified. I guess we have to go with inflicting enough misery on the other side until one surrenders.

Everyone and their mother with a bone to pick with the government will soon be out with a vengeance. The Chinese military can hardly deal with external threats when it's stuck deal with internal ones. So China immune? I don't think so. That leaves the US. Really, how long can their navy last?

Pure fantacy. We are talking about a war where Chinese nationals get to fight against long time rivals with the greatest power (and one no longer a counter weight to their ambitions) on their side.

The Chinese military can hardly deal with external threats when it's stuck deal with internal ones. So China immune? I don't think so. That leaves the US. Really, how long can their navy last?

A simple numbers comparison tells the tail. And remember, US production infustucture is immune based on today's inventories, Europe's is not. Do you realize there are only three dry docks in Europe capable of building even European sized carriers? (Britian/Italy/France) How many high tech aircraft plants do you think exist in Europe capable of producing modern warplanes? It wouldn't be bloodless, but these targets are highly vulnerable.

The key thing to remember is that there is no need to occupy anything. Its all about taking and holding key locations and transit points, and letting the modern economies and societies die in due time. Some nations really have no chance in this scenario (Japan/Australia/SK).