v 26, and above ALL Bugs/Crashes reporting thread

[Koshling]

You have to be aware of Crime, Air and Water Pollution, and Disease now. These add and unhappiness thru the hidden bldgs they unlock at different levels of each.

I don't think the City screen AI is updated (yet) to include these factors in the Avoid Growth, etc selections.

JosEPh

It is as much as it ever was for any other unhealthy effects - basically the AI is reactive, rather than proactive towards unhealthy - it will prioritise health-giving buildings (and de-prioritise unhealth giving ones) more depending on its current health state. Being reactive like this allows it to handle unhealthy it doesn't totally understand (jungles for example in base BtS), and that works fine for property-sourced unhealth also. Of course, it also knows to avoid high levels of pollution, though it sees that as an end in itself - it doesn't explicitly join the dots and connect high levels of pollution to extra unhealth (but it combats both).

Regardless, turning on avoid growth as a HUMAN should directly inhibit the growth irrespective of food surplus, so if it's being ignored for a human player, something is independently going wrong.

 

[democedes]

To clarify, I am referring to the "Avoid unhealthy citizen" button not the "avoid growth" button on the bottom of the city screen. The "Avoid unhealthy citizen" button should reconfigure your citizens, but it doesn't seem to have any effect.

Attached is my save file.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It seems that Avoid Growth is not working in version 26. My cities continue to grow even though they are already unhealthy and I have both avoid growth options selected (health & happiness) in the city screen.

I seem to remember using them in version 25 without issue. Did I miss something?

Also, is there any downside to a unhealthy city other than wasted ?

I assume those are the buttons at the top of the screen near the health and happiness summaries not the one at the bottom of the screen that comes with Civ IV. If so they are working as intended - which to my mind is useless.

Unlike the bottom button called avoid growth which stops all growth. The avoid growth buttons at the top don't. They just move your city population around to produce the minimum excess food but when your granery is full your population grows.

Basically as they are they are useless. I complained to Afforess about them when they were first introduced because I thought they would be very useful at reducing micromanagement and checking your city every turn. Since you could set those and your city would stop growing before it became unhappy or unhealthy but start growing again as you added health and happiness, all without you having to remember to go into the city.

 

[democedes]

IIRC even using avoid growth button should reconfigure your citizens so that you more or less break even with your produced vs consumed food. There is no point in a +19 surplus if you don't want the city to grow.

 

[Koshling]

IIRC even using avoid growth button should reconfigure your citizens so that you more or less break even with your produced vs consumed food. There is no point in a +19 surplus if you don't want the city to grow.

Reasonable request, but it's really a wish list item not a bug currently, as nothing tries to do this.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Reasonable request, but it's really a wish list item not a bug currently, as nothing tries to do this.

Except those two buttons that we are talking about are supposed to do exactly that! Although I expect they can't as much food comes from buildings in C2C, so that even moving all your population to specialists wont stop your population growing.

 

[democedes]

Reasonable request, but it's really a wish list item not a bug currently, as nothing tries to do this.

I have been using the "Avoid unhealthy/angry citizens" buttons since Rise of Mankind and up until v25 of C2C. They worked perfectly until C2C v26. Now they have no effect. Even in vanilla BtS the avoid growth button will reassign your citizens to reduce your surplus. How is that not a bug?

 

[ls612]

It is as much as it ever was for any other unhealthy effects - basically the AI is reactive, rather than proactive towards unhealthy - it will prioritise health-giving buildings (and de-prioritise unhealth giving ones) more depending on its current health state. Being reactive like this allows it to handle unhealthy it doesn't totally understand (jungles for example in base BtS), and that works fine for property-sourced unhealth also. Of course, it also knows to avoid high levels of pollution, though it sees that as an end in itself - it doesn't explicitly join the dots and connect high levels of pollution to extra unhealth (but it combats both).

Regardless, turning on avoid growth as a HUMAN should directly inhibit the growth irrespective of food surplus, so if it's being ignored for a human player, something is independently going wrong.

I think that what he's asking for is for the AI to treat Pollution and Crime as Unhealthy and Unhappy respectively with regards to that AI routine. That actually sounds simple enough that I may try it. Where is your new AI city governer code located?

 

[Koshling]

I think that what he's asking for is for the AI to treat Pollution and Crime as Unhealthy and Unhappy respectively with regards to that AI routine. That actually sounds simple enough that I may try it. Where is your new AI city governer code located?

Terrible idea! Sorry, but the beauty of the property system is that it's generic. Hard coding certain properties to be treated like other effects in the DLL is just nasty. If you really MUST do this, add tags to the properties saying how to treat them, but IMO it's totally unnecessary. Do you have any evidence that the way it treats the properties now is resulting in poor behaviour?

 

[SteelSterling]

Using SVN 3632 and get this error message when loading;
Failed Loading XML file
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda_Civ4gametext.xml.
[.\FXml.cpp:133] Error parsing XML File-
File:
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda)Civ4gametext.xml
Reason: Invalid at the top level of the
document.
Line: 1, 1
Source: i>>?<?xml version="1.0"
encoding=ISO-8859-1"?>

And this:
LoadXML call failed for
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda_civ4gametext.xml.
Current XML file is:
modules\resources\culture\culture_civ4gametext.xml

 

[JosEPh_II]

Terrible idea! Sorry, but the beauty of the property system is that it's generic. Hard coding certain properties to be treated like other effects in the DLL is just nasty. If you really MUST do this, add tags to the properties saying how to treat them, but IMO it's totally unnecessary. Do you have any evidence that the way it treats the properties now is resulting in poor behaviour?

I agree with Koshling. In many areas we are over-complicating things.

Maybe if democedes would post a screen shot or 2, a before and after, the action or inaction of the avoid unhealthy button could be better illustrated?

JosEPh

 

[Sgtslick]

My Maori neighbours have 300 crime and 200+ crime in a few of there 7 or so cities (ancient era), pretty bloody high! I think heke likes to keep his citizens mean and lean, rough them up a bit, like poking dogs in the cage before you unleash them, something like this anyway

 

[calvitix]

Using SVN 3632 and get this error message when loading;
Failed Loading XML file
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda_Civ4gametext.xml.
[.\FXml.cpp:133] Error parsing XML File-
File:
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda)Civ4gametext.xml
Reason: Invalid at the top level of the
document.
Line: 1, 1
Source: i>>?<?xml version="1.0"
encoding=ISO-8859-1"?>

And this:
LoadXML call failed for
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda_civ4gametext.xml.
Current XML file is:
modules\resources\culture\culture_civ4gametext.xml

I don't see anything wrong in that file. tried update the svn again ?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I get the same error as SteelSterling BTW.

Note my SVN version is v3636.

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

Did i miss anything now??

Thanks for the super fast fix and hope the PC gets cranking soon!

All the LHs are fixed except Pearons, whom remains stubbornly big-headed. Pearons looks exactly the same as the previous thumbnail.

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

Saved a game at SVN 3622, running -7 at 90% science. Update SVN to 3636, hit Recalc, and net income drops to - 75 !!! Some research uncovers that Civics that used to cost 12 under SVN 3622 now cost 19 under SVN 3636, and from 21 to 33.

Was this intentional? It surprised me, but I can recover well enough. I did not see anything in the SVN Log about changing Civic costs.

May not be a bug, but worth noting, as the symptom first made me think "Inflation is back!"

Save game is from SVN 3622.

On the positive side Recalc is really really quick now!

 

[strategyonly]

Using SVN 3632 and get this error message when loading;
Failed Loading XML file
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda_Civ4gametext.xml.
[.\FXml.cpp:133] Error parsing XML File-
File:
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda)Civ4gametext.xml
Reason: Invalid at the top level of the
document.
Line: 1, 1
Source: i>>?<?xml version="1.0"
encoding=ISO-8859-1"?>

And this:
LoadXML call failed for
modules\custom_civilizations\apache\aaranda_civ4gametext.xml.
Current XML file is:
modules\resources\culture\culture_civ4gametext.xml

I don't see anything wrong in that file. tried update the svn again ?

I get the same error as SteelSterling BTW.

Note my SVN version is v3636.

I am getting the same thing:

Sometimes, i dont know what it is, you never change the top of a TXT file but it does this, it has happended to me also before, all i did was take another txt file (a small one) and erase everything below the top (right above the first Text) then just place YOUR new stuff there, if that works then ok, if not, you'll hae to do it with another TXT file etc etc etc. till it runs correctly enventually it will work o one of them, i know, its BS but that is just the way things work sometimes, sorry, it aint me (Firaxis)

 

[calvitix]

I am getting the same thing:

Sometimes, i dont know what it is, you never change the top of a TXT file but it does this, it has happended to me also before, all i did was take another txt file (a small one) and erase everything below the top (right above the first Text) then just place YOUR new stuff there, if that works then ok, if not, you'll hae to do it with another TXT file etc etc etc. till it runs correctly enventually it will work o one of them, i know, its BS but that is just the way things work sometimes, sorry, it aint me (Firaxis)

I just found what it is and upload in SVN a fix : I convert by mistake the file in UTF-8 format (wrong shortcut ). Problem is gone when I re-convert it to Iso-8859-1).

 

[SteelSterling]

Updating SVN to see if it works. Thanks for the quick fix!

 

[Sgtslick]

Saved a game at SVN 3622, running -7 at 90% science. Update SVN to 3636, hit Recalc, and net income drops to - 75 !!! Some research uncovers that Civics that used to cost 12 under SVN 3622 now cost 19 under SVN 3636, and from 21 to 33.

Was this intentional? It surprised me, but I can recover well enough. I did not see anything in the SVN Log about changing Civic costs.

May not be a bug, but worth noting, as the symptom first made me think "Inflation is back!"

Save game is from SVN 3622.

On the positive side Recalc is really really quick now!

Its the trait tweaks, a lot of the original traits have a negative civic maintenance now. Have a look at your leaders traits.