V1.15 BETA Release

[akots]

Originally posted by Yeti
... As soon as I'm done I do intend to take a snapshot of my Civ (I figure a few advisor / city list screen shots should do the trick), install 1.15b, and then reload a save and see how things change (corruption wise).

That would be great indeed!

Can you then please post the results in some separate thread, not in this one. Because there were a bunch of discussions of corruption in other threads for other beta patches (they were sticky) and now they are moved somewhere on the second page. Which is weird because people are discussing the very same things which were in these threads over and over again like it is something never discussed before.

Or may be a moderator can kindly pool this corruption discussion from previous threads somewhere so people have no trouble finding it in between forest chopping and unit movement. It is indeed very difficult to follow up.

 

[akots]

Originally posted by Tavis
...Corruption was set by Soren to meet his design. ... [/B]

Thanks for the information. As we all understand, this design is some deep secret which is neither in the manual, no in civilopedia, nor in readme apart from some general phrases. Can Soren kindly summarize what is his design in several sentences/equations so that the players can quit breaking their brains out trying to decipher this design.

Sounds ironic, though it is not.

Apparently, chances are that this 1.13/1.15 corruption system will be used throughout the subsequent patches? Or it is going to change soon?

 

[zilfondel]

So I'm a brand-spanking new civ3 guy. Just bought civ3, ptw, and conquests from amazon and gogamer (the really cheap sales they had, got 'em all for $45).

FYI:
I already installed the ptw and conquests 1.12 beta patch...is this correct??

Which patches should I *really* have gotten??? Most games give you one patch to apply to a game, including the expansion packs.

And here you are using BETA patches?! That's crazy. I do software testing...bah, I don't want to deal with more stuff in development.

So what's the deal? I installed civ3, then ptw, then conquests - straight outta the box.

Am I now supposed to download the civ3 patch? then the ptw? then the conquests?


Thanks for all the help!

 

[Longasc]

Hi zilfondel!

I agree with you, Civ 3 Conquests should have been given worse critics because it is simply buggy - I agree that this is not appropriate. We are getting used to buggy soft, but now we are even given BETA patches...

You do not need to download the Civ3 patch. Nor the PTW.

Just get the latest C3C patch or do not patch at all - in June (ARGH) you will get the final patch.

Sorry for you, I share your disappointment. I am doing fine with 1.12 beta C3C only.

 

[kroym]

Originally posted by Tavis
Make a backup of your original Civ3Conquests.exe, jgl.dll, and text\labels.txt

Where/what exactly is/are the "text\labels.txt" file(s)?

And if we backup those and install the 1.15 BETA, how will that impact installing the public release?

 

[Reagan]

There is a subdirectory called "text" under your Conquests directory. Within that subdirectory is a file called "labels.txt." That's what needs to be backed-up. I have no idea what the answer to your second question is.

 

[Stapel]

Originally posted by zilfondel
So I'm a brand-spanking new civ3 guy. Just bought civ3, ptw, and conquests from amazon and gogamer (the really cheap sales they had, got 'em all for $45).

FYI:
I already installed the ptw and conquests 1.12 beta patch...is this correct??

Which patches should I *really* have gotten??? Most games give you one patch to apply to a game, including the expansion packs.

And here you are using BETA patches?! That's crazy. I do software testing...bah, I don't want to deal with more stuff in development.

So what's the deal? I installed civ3, then ptw, then conquests - straight outta the box.

Am I now supposed to download the civ3 patch? then the ptw? then the conquests?


Thanks for all the help!

For Vanilla civ I forgot waht patch.
For PTW, you should use 1.27
For C3C, I would advise 1.12 / 1.13 (beta)

You do not need to download or install these patches in any order.

I can understand your point of view on the betas. It seems ridiculous. But please understand that the AI becomes an easy target for experienced players, when the game moves on. The latest patches have given us different ways of handling corruption. I think (imho), that this actually does lead to a more intriguing game.

 

[Yeti]

My 2cents on a few things:

On the varoius beta versions:
I think people need to complain less about the the beta patches and unsupported beta patches, and whatever else. You're coming to an enthusiast web site and downloading versions that Firaxis is doing us a favor by making available for early use / testing. Basically, if you're not OK with the idea that installing a non final patch (1.xxf) could result in your losing all of your saves, mods, and having to reinstall Civ, then don't use them. Personally I really appreciate the communication and beta sharing that we're seeing here.

On 1.13b:
This version is working pretty well in my opinion. It's quite playable, and corruption is tolerable, even with larger empires. I like the fact that even a totally remote useless city (I have a city on an island halfway around the world to get saltpeter) can build a courthouse and use a civil engineer or two and do pretty well all by itself.

Akots - On 1.13b vs 1.15b:
I can't wait to test (almost done my current game), and you got Akots! I'll start up a new thread and post the results when I have them.

 

[kroym]

Thanks, Reagan

Anyone know the answer to my second question above? (How does backing up the files and installing these BETA patches affect installing the public release?)

 

[genghis_khev]

I have to agree with Yeti on the whole beta patch debate. If you are unhappy using beta patches then simply don't! I do, will continue to do so and, worst case scenario, if I loose my saves and mods then I shall reinstall it all and start again. On the flip side I have made no "personal" modifications to the game so getting back to where I was will be a matter of minutes, not days resetting everything to how it was.

I downloaded and installed 1.13 and 1.15 at the same time and mid- (or near end of a ) game. As a novice civ 3 player (I can just about handle the second difficulty level, I forget what it's called) I didn't notice too much difference but I was near the end of the game which I was able to complete with no ill effects (may be I got lucky here, I don't know).

There seemed to be little difference to the corruption within the game but my civ was HUGE (I ended up winning by Dominaton on a standard map, 66% land with over 80% population). I would like to see a lot less corruption in democracy but I am still trying to play civ 3 like I am playing civ 2 (or civ 1), i.e. build a huge civ, get years ahead in research and the destoy the enemy muskets and spearmen with my tanks and nukes! The differences between civ 3 and the ealier versions of the game are many and subtle and apart from the corruption all for the better!

I found the best way to beat the worst of the corrution (i.e. shield production) is, as mentioned previously by Yeti is civil engineers (are they made available by PTW or C3C?). I don't think they work for military units though (yes I am a novice player and I am at work at the moment, far away from manuals, my computer, etc).

Finallly (stop cheering!!!), I agree with zilfondel, could someone come up with a simple explanation of coorruption. I have tried the war accadamy ( zilfondel, this was a massive help with my general tactics and quite a giggle at times, well worth a look) but to no avail. PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME/US/EVERYONE!!!!

Remeber, Nuke 'em 'til the glow and then shoot 'em in the dark!

 

[rdomarat]

Originally posted by kroym
Thanks, Reagan
Anyone know the answer to my second question above? (How does backing up the files and installing these BETA patches affect installing the public release?)

Reagan, I'm not sure what you mean by "affect installing the public release", but here's what I've done with the BETA patches.

Assume that civ3 was initially installed in c:\civ3 (just to save me a lot of typing). When C3C installs, you end up with a directory structure that looks something like (doing from memory ) :

c:\civ3
c:\civ3\PTW
c:\civ3\Conquests

When you install a Vnialla Civ3 patch it writes ONLY to c:\civ3 (and the related civ3 Vanilla subdirectories). A PTW patch writes only to c:\civ3\PTW, and you can likely extrapolate to figure out when the Conquest patch go.

When BETA patches for Conquests started coming out, before I installed ANY of them, I first copied c:\civ3\Conquests to c:\civ3\Conquests.v100. This was likely overkill, since I didn't need to copy all the graphics files and sound files and the like, but disk space is cheap. Now, all the BETA patches for C3C write into c:\civ3\Conquests, and when I just click on the start menu item in the Start Menu, it's the v1.15 BETA that fires off for me (which is working great IMHO based on one day's play). If at any time I decide the BETA patch sucks, I go into File Explorer, rename c:\civ3\Conquests to c:\civ3\Conquests.v115 and then rename c:\civ3\Conquests.v100 to c:\civ3\Conquests. Voila, I'm now back to using the initial release.

You can obviously take this a step further if you wanted and have lots of different directories :

c:\civ3
c:\civ3\PTW
c:\civ3\Conquests.v100
c:\civ3\Conquests.v102
c:\civ3\Conquests.v112
c:\civ3\Conquests.v113
c:\civ3\Conquests.v115

You could then picks and choose which exactly which BETA version you wanted to play.

When the Final patch comes out neat the end of February, I'm planning on renaming the current c:\civ3\Conquests directory (which will hold the most recent BETA patch) to c:\civ3\Conquests.v1xx (replace xx with the current version obviosuly), then copy c:\civ3\Conquests.v100 to c:\civ3\Conquests. So, when I install the real Final patch, as far as that patch is concerned, I'm installing on top of the initial release of C3C. That way, in case the Final patch has some serious problem, I can still go back to last BETA patch and continue to play.

HTH.

 

[Aggie]

@rdomarat: I only made a copy of the conquest.exe. I now have conquest_patch112.exe, conquest_patch113.exe and conquest_115.exe. All in the same directory. Works like a charm!

 

[rdomarat]

Originally posted by Aggie
@rdomarat: I only made a copy of the conquest.exe. I now have conquest_patch112.exe, conquest_patch113.exe and conquest_115.exe. All in the same directory. Works like a charm!

I'm a pessimist though. The patch changes more than the EXE (run filemon.exe from www.sysinternals.com while doing the patch to see exactly what if you're interested), so when you switch back to v112 for example, you'll be using a mix of v112 and v115 files, which is a Bad Thing To Do IMHO. That's not to say it won't work of course, but I translate the term "BETA" to "minimal (if not no) testing", and will take a few extra precautions to avoid re-installing everything from scratch when using BETA patches.

 

[Yeti]

genghis_khev:

Civil Engineers (and Police Men) were added with C3C. And your observation is correct - Civil Engineers only help with city improvements (civil engineering projects). Police Men help a very / totally corrupt city contribute some gold to the empire.

So the rule of thumb is that if you're building a city improvement, use a civil engineer, otherwise use police men so you're getting a bit more gold.

 

[USC]

Originally posted by genghis_khev
There seemed to be little difference to the corruption within the game but my civ was HUGE (I ended up winning by Dominaton on a standard map, 66% land with over 80% population). I would like to see a lot less corruption in democracy

For better or for worse, the design philosophy is for corruption to be high enough in all governments that huge empires are not much better off than merely large ones, reducing the "steamroller effect." You can agree with it or disagree with it -- but that's what's going on.

(Personally, I think it's ridiculous in the case of Democracy, which should have flat, low corruption, even at the cost of crippling it in some other area. DC, Minneapolis, and San Francisco have IRL at least the same corruption, if not outright higher corruption in DC... Another option would be non-flat corruption and support for as many FP's -- "state capitals" -- as the player wants. This could be balanced out by a huge increase in unit support costs and war weariness.)

Originally posted by genghis_khev

but I am still trying to play civ 3 like I am playing civ 2 (or civ 1), i.e. build a huge civ, get years ahead in research and the destoy the enemy muskets and spearmen with my tanks and nukes!

Nope, that won't work. The science paradigm in Civ III always favors those on the catch-up. Most of the time -- unlike in Civ II -- you can forget, no matter what, about meeting spearmen with your tanks on Monarch and above.

Originally posted by genghis_khev

I found the best way to beat the worst of the corrution (i.e. shield production) is, as mentioned previously by Yeti is civil engineers (are they made available by PTW or C3C?). I don't think they work for military units though ....

They were introduced in C3C, and only work for buildings.

Originally posted by genghis_khev

Finallly (stop cheering!!!), I agree with zilfondel, could someone come up with a simple explanation of coorruption.

Alexman has done, and presented, a lot of work on this both here on CFC and at its "competitor," apolyton.net. I'm starting to get a headache, so please forgive me for not looking up specific threads. Good luck in your search!

USC

 

[Ekmek]

I have noticed that turns can still take awhile on my 2.4GHz. Do this patches have the no AI patrolling code that came out in a later PTW patch?

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by Yeti
[...]
Police Men help a very / totally corrupt city contribute some gold to the empire.
[...]

Funny enough, the Police Man sometimes gives you shields as well. It doesn't happen every time, though. I haven't found out the internal routine yet, when it will do so and when it won't. (Playing on Monarch 1.15 now)

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by Ekmek
I have noticed that turns can still take awhile on my 2.4GHz. Do this patches have the no AI patrolling code that came out in a later PTW patch?

I guess that the AI patrols are just a minor part of that problem. On my 2.6 GHz, 512 MB, and almost anything else machine , my latest PTW games (patch 1.27) still could last for more than 3 minutes at the end of the game.
I remember one time late at night, when I was fighting a heavy fight against the Arabs, it took so long that I literally felt asleep

I do guess, OTOH, that there is a flaw in the logic. I believe that when the AI moves SODs, it calculates the area of visibility for any unit in it. What, of course, is just crazy...

 

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by USC

(Personally, I think it's ridiculous in the case of Democracy, which should have flat, low corruption, even at the cost of crippling it in some other area. DC, Minneapolis, and San Francisco have IRL at least the same corruption, if not outright higher corruption in DC... Another option would be non-flat corruption and support for as many FP's -- "state capitals" -- as the player wants. This could be balanced out by a huge increase in unit support costs and war weariness.)
USC

Can the same be said of the corruption of the United States if you were looking at it in the mid 1800s?

 

[aaglo]

I don't think the idea here is to simulate governments to detail. Nowhere in the world the corruption actually grow away from capital.

It's all about fun and challenging gaming experience