Ahriman
Tyrant
I assumed that it was an unavoidable consequence of letting you build plantations on jungle/resource tiles without cutting the jungle first.
v3.1 plans
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Plantations should only be on resources, and brazilwood camp should be normal tiles. I'll look into it.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Are you sure you're not thinking of farms? Plantations have no artwork or yields on non-resource tiles... it's definitely a bug if we can build invisible useless improvements everywhere. 
Edit:
I started a game, gave myself all techs, and placed a jungle and worker. The worker can't build a plantation. What are the circumstances when you've been able to build plantations away from resources?
Edit:
I started a game, gave myself all techs, and placed a jungle and worker. The worker can't build a plantation. What are the circumstances when you've been able to build plantations away from resources?
Ahriman
Tyrant
I can't build plantations on jungle.
xInVicTuSx
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2013
- Messages
- 75
In GEM you could build plantations on jungle, I did it all the time to farm culture with the pantheon belief. You can't do it in BNW or vanilla civ or CEP currently.
On the subject, jungle tiles are so much better when all is said and done that in my last game I had 4 bannanas at my capital and only ever plantations one of them because I got the food for jungle belief and the science from them was better. Kinda sad that you can't build trading posts on them though for super jungle tiles.
On the subject, jungle tiles are so much better when all is said and done that in my last game I had 4 bannanas at my capital and only ever plantations one of them because I got the food for jungle belief and the science from them was better. Kinda sad that you can't build trading posts on them though for super jungle tiles.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I've been thinking of delaying the science benefit for jungles. It seems like we should get an incentive to clear them later, as happened in real life, not keep them. I might move the science bonus to the Research Lab.
In addition to that, when we burn down a jungle we don't get any production for it. Because of that, I think it might make sense to take less time to burn a jungle than log a forest. I'm going to try that. It will give more incentive to burn jungle into plains when we don't have a jungle belief.
In addition to that, when we burn down a jungle we don't get any production for it. Because of that, I think it might make sense to take less time to burn a jungle than log a forest. I'm going to try that. It will give more incentive to burn jungle into plains when we don't have a jungle belief.
ExpiredReign
Deity
In GEM you could build plantations on jungle, I did it all the time to farm culture with the pantheon belief. You can't do it in BNW or vanilla civ or CEP currently.
On the subject, jungle tiles are so much better when all is said and done that in my last game I had 4 bannanas at my capital and only ever plantations one of them because I got the food for jungle belief and the science from them was better. Kinda sad that you can't build trading posts on them though for super jungle tiles.
In the game I'm on now I can build a Trading Post in a jungle.
I also have not taken Bronze Working yet so I can't clear that jungle.
Seems a bit strange to me. Building any structure whether the whole tile is cleared or not should depend on the ability to 'Clear' jungles.
xInVicTuSx
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2013
- Messages
- 75
Ah, yes I only meant that you cant build trading posts on jungle tiles that have resources like Bananas or Spices.
ExpiredReign
Deity
Ah. Of course. Because of the trade off you have to make between the 2 types of improvements.
Hybrid Trading Post/Plantation with mixed benefits? Lower benefits than each but combined to give a mixed improvement.
Also we will have to update the 'pedia to show Trading Posts can be built in Jungle. Not done yet.
Hybrid Trading Post/Plantation with mixed benefits? Lower benefits than each but combined to give a mixed improvement.
Also we will have to update the 'pedia to show Trading Posts can be built in Jungle. Not done yet.
ExpiredReign
Deity
The taking a long time was meant to simulate the step beforehand of clearing the 'Jungle'.
At least that was how I saw it.
I had always had Bronze Working early so just assumed the clearing was taking place.
Apparently not!
At least that was how I saw it.
I had always had Bronze Working early so just assumed the clearing was taking place.
Apparently not!
stackpointer
King
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
- Messages
- 809
Trading posts and farms can be built in jungles in 3.1. Plantations can be built in jungle resources that require them.
In GEM, villages (trading posts), farms, plantations, and lumber mills could be built in jungles. I was never sure what the difference between jungle farms and jungle plantations were since they both provided additional
.
Speaking of jungle farms, anybody else find them a little weird? I like the idea of jungle plantations a little better and would like jungle lumber mills back too since I'm always suffering from production problems in jungle starts.
In GEM, villages (trading posts), farms, plantations, and lumber mills could be built in jungles. I was never sure what the difference between jungle farms and jungle plantations were since they both provided additional
.Speaking of jungle farms, anybody else find them a little weird? I like the idea of jungle plantations a little better and would like jungle lumber mills back too since I'm always suffering from production problems in jungle starts.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Thal,
You have two versions of 3.1.6, rather than incrementing to 3.1.7.
http://civmodding.wordpress.com/
You have two versions of 3.1.6, rather than incrementing to 3.1.7.
http://civmodding.wordpress.com/
Anastase Alex
Warlord
I agree that it makes sense to postpone it to research lab BUT by that time no jungle tiles will be left and it will be only a marginal bonus. In that case we need to compensate universities, because civilizations that start in Jungle are a bit hoosed, loosing valuable turns removing it, which was compensated before by catching up in the mid-game. We do not necessarily need to boost universities, but a renaiscence or industrial era bonus to jungles is needed if you want to keep a balance between different terrains.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Personally I prefer jungles to be more inhospitable, a bit like deserts, except that eventually they are clearable and can be good terrain. This also gives workers something to be doing in the mid-game, after improvements are built, but before railways.
This could be partially achieved by going back to the vanilla design, where you have to chop jungles before you can build improvements, and this takes significant tech.
I think it is too easy to have a civ in a jungle. Other than the Mayans and potentially Amazonians (we don't know too much about them AFAIK?), this never really happened historically.
However: this only works if we can set the start positions so that no civs start in jungles, and if the jungles are not too much of the world. It's no fun if some civs are crippled by a jungle start position.
If we can't do this, then yes, delaying the science benefits is still a good idea.
This could be partially achieved by going back to the vanilla design, where you have to chop jungles before you can build improvements, and this takes significant tech.
I think it is too easy to have a civ in a jungle. Other than the Mayans and potentially Amazonians (we don't know too much about them AFAIK?), this never really happened historically.
However: this only works if we can set the start positions so that no civs start in jungles, and if the jungles are not too much of the world. It's no fun if some civs are crippled by a jungle start position.
If we can't do this, then yes, delaying the science benefits is still a good idea.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I basically want tropics to play differently than other areas - not better or worse, just different. About 1 in 4 civilizations available to us had empires in tropical or subtropical regions. Even if they weren't literally inside rainforests, I want to get that feeling of being in the tropics. 
Ahriman
Tyrant
Maya, Siam, Indonesia, yes. Arguably Polynesia.
There is no way that China, Songhai (the Niger basin goes through a desert), Aztec, Zulu could be described as tropical or jungle-like at all. China is temperate, the others are arid.
Northern Brazil is tropical, but southern Brazil, where the people live, is not.
India is not really tropical, it is monsoon driven. Very seasonal. And the early civilizations were on the Indus and Ganges basins, not very jungley.
Tropical/jungle covers a small proportion of Earth, and tended to be very inhospitable to development.
mitsho
Deity
Songhai (Sahel), Zulu (South of the Tropics) and Inca (Over the tropics in the mountains) don't really fit. One could argue over Ethiopia, China and so on, but your point stands and I think it's a good one.
Just how far should that different go though? Is it just visual or gameplay. If the latter, why are we making it more like Forests then? The science does make it different f.e.. If you want to equalize it, jungle could use a production ressource (i.e. rubber), but we do want it to be different (= less production available comparatively).
Just how far should that different go though? Is it just visual or gameplay. If the latter, why are we making it more like Forests then? The science does make it different f.e.. If you want to equalize it, jungle could use a production ressource (i.e. rubber), but we do want it to be different (= less production available comparatively).
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