Venice discussion

[Biologist]

I wasn't terribly pleased with Venice at first, and I still question some of their mechanics, but the idea is growing on me. Still, unless I missed something, all we have is leaked information, so it's possible, if not probable, that some of the mechanics will be altered. Hopefully the bland "Great Galleass" name will be improved, if not the unit itself.

I do have another concern about Venice's "puppet-only" mechanics. Razing cities becomes impossible, because in order to raze a city you must temporarily annex it. This might not be a problem most of the time (especially since it's not as if the AI is competing with you for city sites). There are times, however, when the AI settles a really awful spot right on your borders, and you don't want the burden of a population 1 albatross around your civ's neck (for happiness/culture reasons), so you conquer it and raze it. As Venice you have to either accept an AI outpost on your doorstep or accept having a worthless-to-mediocre city that you can't unload for the rest of the game.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think I may try to take Venice cultural in hopes of flipping the crap out of all the cities that my neighbors build around me. That would amuse me greatly.

 

[Gucumatz]

I wasn't terribly pleased with Venice at first, and I still question some of their mechanics, but the idea is growing on me. Still, unless I missed something, all we have is leaked information, so it's possible, if not probable, that some of the mechanics will be altered. Hopefully the bland "Great Galleass" name will be improved, if not the unit itself.

I do have another concern about Venice's "puppet-only" mechanics. Razing cities becomes impossible, because in order to raze a city you must temporarily annex it. This might not be a problem most of the time (especially since it's not as if the AI is competing with you for city sites). There are times, however, when the AI settles a really awful spot right on your borders, and you don't want the burden of a population 1 albatross around your civ's neck (for happiness/culture reasons), so you conquer it and raze it. As Venice you have to either accept an AI outpost on your doorstep or accept having a worthless-to-mediocre city that you can't unload for the rest of the game.

Or immediately sell the city to someone else to create a buffer state?

 

[Arkangelus]

I dont think its been mentioned but the Great Galleass appears to lack the promotion that ordinarily limits it to coastal tiles, so they can be ocean-going before everyone else.

 

[Biologist]

Or immediately sell the city to someone else to create a buffer state?

Yeah but.... then it's just another potentially hostile AI that controls a border settlement. Maybe under some circumstances I would consider that, but most of the time I would just expect it to trigger a bunch of false positive "you settled to close to us" diplo hits.

 

[Iklabain]

Venice is just plain cool.

 

[Yzman]

I wasn't terribly pleased with Venice at first, and I still question some of their mechanics, but the idea is growing on me. Still, unless I missed something, all we have is leaked information, so it's possible, if not probable, that some of the mechanics will be altered. Hopefully the bland "Great Galleass" name will be improved, if not the unit itself.

I do have another concern about Venice's "puppet-only" mechanics. Razing cities becomes impossible, because in order to raze a city you must temporarily annex it. This might not be a problem most of the time (especially since it's not as if the AI is competing with you for city sites). There are times, however, when the AI settles a really awful spot right on your borders, and you don't want the burden of a population 1 albatross around your civ's neck (for happiness/culture reasons), so you conquer it and raze it. As Venice you have to either accept an AI outpost on your doorstep or accept having a worthless-to-mediocre city that you can't unload for the rest of the game.

We don't actually now that you can't raze a city. It may be as simple as that you can raze it, but once you do it can't be stopped and you can't control the city in any way.

 

[Yzman]

As I read it on another form Italy now has Venice as its civ. Sorry but the Roman Empire is a Latin civilization, wasn't rome based off Latinium's culture?

Despite that though, Rome is important, because it was the base for all Western European nations. I and others don't really identify Rome and the Romans as an Italian civilization. Though part of it would be part of Italian culture, yes, I think the Italians came later. But don't get me wrong, I am excited for the brave new world expansion.

Venice does not represent the Italian culture, it represents Venice. They could not use Italy as a full civ because of city overlap ( Both Italy and Rome would have Rome as a capital, which isn't allowed in the game). So while its a bit unfortunate, I understand why Italy is never included. Rome makes the city naming difficult and a Civ without Rome is not much of a Civ at all. I think Venice and many Italian city states is a nice way to include other parts of Italy without having to forgo it entirely due to city list.

 

[gunnergoz]

Venice does not represent the Italian culture, it represents Venice. They could not use Italy as a full civ because of city overlap ( Both Italy and Rome would have Rome as a capital, which isn't allowed in the game). So while its a bit unfortunate, I understand why Italy is never included. Rome makes the city naming difficult and a Civ without Rome is not much of a Civ at all. I think Venice and many Italian city states is a nice way to include other parts of Italy without having to forgo it entirely due to city list.

Considering that, from the standpoint of most of its inhabitants, Italy is really no more than a loosely unified collection of self-identifying cities, towns and regions, connected by a single tax collector, that's probably for the better anyway. Speaking as one, BTW .

 

[Epic Eric]

I'm trying to imagine what would be the best strategies for this Civ. Afterall, judging by some screenshots (where it has an entire continent), it's a pretty strong Civ: it can still capture other Civs' cities, of course.

First of all, I guess you'd create your Capital on the coast, as you'll be mostly benefited by sea trade routes. Next thing you'd do is build a lot of military units, to prevent being taken down on the early game, while you explore your surroundings looking for as many Civilizations and CS's as possible, so that you can create as many trade routes as possible later on, as well as try to found the World Congress (since diplomacy is very important for this Civ). Then, once you are militarily stable, you should probably start creating these trade routes, to boost gold and Great Merchant slots. After that, maybe some expansion towards weak Civs or far away CS's in order to effectively dominate resources and position yourself if you need to attack strong Civs in your continent. Once that's done, you just expand till you become the only country in the continent.

I believe the best victory type for this Civ might be Scientific (if you pick the Freedom ideology, you can buy spaceship parts for gold. That, plus the huge ammounts of gold you'll be making towards the end of the game...). They may also be good Diplomatic players (unless you depend a lot on CS votes. You better make friends or buy votes, in that case). Maybe Military, if you manage to get a City-State in every other continent and have enough gold to create offensive units quickly. Probably won't go for a Cultural victory with this Civ, though.

I don't know if that strategy will even work in-game, considering it requires a completely different and advanced strategy. Also, it's probably not the best one; and certainly not the only one. Either way, I really wanna play this Civ once Brave New World launches to see how it turns out to be.

 

[gunnergoz]

I'd think the first priority for Venice would be exploring and after that, a reasonable defense, science buildings and then the infrastructure to grow wealth, culture and tourism. Religion would be somewhere lower on the scale, since Venice was not an evangelistic city in a strict sense; their expansion was almost always for economic benefits. Just think, no need to build up a lot of settlers, which are a major drag in terms of time and resources (not to mention growth!); what's more, one or two workers will probably be sufficient until you expand to your first puppeted CS, if then.

 

[Petiscator]

I bet there is a wonder or building or national wonder or something that gives a civilization an extra trade route. If that is the case, do you think venice would get +2 instead of +1?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I bet there is a wonder or building or national wonder or something that gives a civilization an extra trade route. If that is the case, do you think venice would get +2 instead of +1?

Oh my god, I completely forgot about such awesome possibilities. There were wonders like that mentioned (I think East India Company and... something else. Machu Picchu, maybe?), and I am nearly certain Venice will get double benefit from it.

Venice is only becoming more and more awesome when I think about it more.

 

[VainApocalypse]

Can anyone give us a sum total of the maximum possible trade routes Venice can have?

We'll need to know the base number of trade routes, and we'll also need to look at the tech tree and wonder list to see how many can be added.

Multiply that number by 2.

 

[Seek]

The most I recall seeing in late game screenshots/videos is 9.

 

[God of Kings]

The most I recall seeing in late game screenshots/videos is 9.

Venice would have 18 trade routes if that number were true.

 

[altayrneto]

Venice would have 18 trade routes if that number were true.

It is per city or per Civilization?

 

[Talcove]

It is per city or per Civilization?

It's pretty obviously per Civ.
Having 9 trade routes per CITY would be insane! I wouldn't know what to do with all of them!

 

[God of Kings]

It's pretty obviously per Civ.
Having 9 trade routes per CITY would be insane! I wouldn't know what to do with all of them!

...and 18 for Venice!

 

[Louis XXIV]

But per civ doesn't make sense either. They say how you have two per city. But if you have ten cities, you'll have less than two per city. How do they decide which cities don't get two?

I don't think it's 9 per city either, though, since I think the East India Company is partially credited for the total number and that might be city specific.