Venice treated as a conqueror?

[RedRover57]

Playing as Carthage I took a city from Venice that was previously a City State and was able to liberate it. This gave me a large reduction in warmongering penalty and allied me with the CS. Intended or bug? I am using the latest (non-beta) mod pack.

 

[Sendaf]

As Venice when you purchase a city state you don't receive a warmonger penalty. As for the liberation bonus I'm pretty sure its intended. You could have annexed or puppeted the city and chose instead to restore the cities independence.

However when playing against Venice it really makes it hard to not totally wipe them off the map. Capture their capital because it usually has some decent wonders and liberate their city states to wipe away all warmonger penalties.

 

[RedRover57]

I don't remember being able to liberate CS from under Venice's control in the non-modded Civ 5, but I could be mistaken. I thought after Venice buys them they are considered as part of their empire and no longer a CS.

 

[Gazebo]

Core bugfix of the CP was to make it so that puppeted CSs (austria and venice) could be liberated.

G

 

[grmagne]

As Venice when you purchase a city state you don't receive a warmonger penalty.

Are you sure? Last weekend I bought 5 City-States with the Merchant of Venice and the whole world hated me. Over a span of 100 turns I had 7 different civs declare war on me because I was considered a warmonger. That was on king level.

Before then I hadn't fought a war and I had huge lead in science and culture, and was allied with every remaining CS in the game (that I didn't purchase). The game had been ridiculously easy up to that point. After endless warfare with almost every civ in the modern era, it was a constant struggle, though I did win the game in the end.

 

[Sendaf]

Venice is one of my favorite Civs to play and I can't remember ever getting a warmonger penalty. I have angered other civs from stealing their allied CS from them. I could be totally wrong however.

 

[Enginseer]

Are you sure? Last weekend I bought 5 City-States with the Merchant of Venice and the whole world hated me. Over a span of 100 turns I had 7 different civs declare war on me because I was considered a warmonger. That was on king level.

Before then I hadn't fought a war and I had huge lead in science and culture, and was allied with every remaining CS in the game (that I didn't purchase). The game had been ridiculously easy up to that point. After endless warfare with almost every civ in the modern era, it was a constant struggle, though I did win the game in the end.

Probably the civilizations had their eyes on those city-states, and you just took them away. Of course they would hate you. It's not warmonger penalty, but rather "sharing the same interest in the same city-state" penalty. It could also be the "expanding aggressively" penalty.

 

[Zares]

Probably the civilizations had their eyes on those city-states, and you just took them away. Of course they would hate you. It's not warmonger penalty, but rather "sharing the same interest in the same city-state" penalty. It could also be the "expanding aggressively" penalty.

I don't like this AIs "eyes on city-states", AIs want to be ally with all CSs even if they don't focus on diplo, they treat them "better" than friendly/allied Civs. I can't make ally to CSs, I can't take tribute from them, I can't annex them as Austria/Venice, because AIs will be mad so bad that they will declare war at me

 

[Funak]

I don't like this AIs "eyes on city-states", AIs want to be ally with all CSs even if they don't focus on diplo, they treat them "better" than friendly/allied Civs. I can't make ally to CSs, I can't take tribute from them, I can't annex them as Austria/Venice, because AIs will be mad so bad that they will declare war at me

You can't even ignore the city-states, you hit a random quest for getting a resource of finding a land and suddenly you get 3 popups from every leader in the game telling you to back off, really not fun gameplay to be honest.

 

[Iamblichos]

I guess I don't really see the difficulty. CS's are a point of contention and competition even among friendly major civs. If a major civ is a diplo beneficiary of your overtures (and theirs), that point of competition ought not to out weigh your present status (barring more and other diplo hits), or at least this is how my games have played out with the latest beta.

But with Venice and Austria, I think they see this as a city capture and expansion.

 

[Gazebo]

I guess I don't really see the difficulty. CS's are a point of contention and competition even among friendly major civs. If a major civ is a diplo beneficiary of your overtures (and theirs), that point of competition ought not to out weigh your present status (barring more and other diplo hits), or at least this is how my games have played out with the latest beta.

But with Venice and Austria, I think they see this as a city capture and expansion.

Current beta is essential for diplomacy at this point. I'm largely glossing over diplo reports at this point if they're not from the latest beta.

G

 

[Iamblichos]

Current beta is essential for diplomacy at this point. I'm largely glossing over diplo reports at this point if they're not from the latest beta.

G

I think the diplomacy in the latest beta is much much closer to the Platonic Form of Diplomacy than I have seen to date. I've never seen such consistency in past versions as the current one.

 

[Gazebo]

I think the diplomacy in the latest beta is much much closer to the Platonic Form of Diplomacy than I have seen to date. I've never seen such consistency in past versions as the current one.

Consistently good? Bad? Too consistent?

G

 

[Iamblichos]

Consistently good? Bad? Too consistent?

G

Consistent as in doing what they should be doing to win. In my recent game as Japan I was friends with Brazil all game, doing deals, trade routes, etc. I was a heavy warmonger all game. Didn't really give me much grief at all about my allied CS around him. He started getting edgy as I started conquering America around him. I landed a citadel at my borders with Brazil and enough was enough. He DOWed next turn.

I'd say it looks like predictive programming.

 

[Gazebo]

Consistent as in doing what they should be doing to win. In my recent game as Japan I was friends with Brazil all game, doing deals, trade routes, etc. I was a heavy warmonger all game. Didn't really give me much grief at all about my allied CS around him. He started getting edgy as I started conquering America around him. I landed a citadel at my borders with Brazil and enough was enough. He DOWed next turn.

I'd say it looks like predictive programming.

I'm by no means an expert at what I do with the DLL...but some of the design decisions Firaxis made with the AI are just completely baffling. They did all of this work on personalities...and then they just threw it out the window and opted for global defines. Also, no control for change over turn means you get wild swings in attitude. For a AAA game...man, I just don't get it.

I wish they'd bring me in to consult on Civ 6 (much like they brought the Long War guys in for XCOM 2). You guys should broker with them on my behalf.

G

 

[Funak]

I wish they'd bring me in to consult on Civ 6 (much like they brought the Long War guys in for XCOM 2). You guys should broker with them on my behalf.

You just need more fame and prestige, nothing we can really do about that

 

[Senteliks]

I wish they'd bring me in to consult on Civ 6 (much like they brought the Long War guys in for XCOM 2). You guys should broker with them on my behalf.

Expect part where they would take into count only about 10% of what you purposed

 

[Strigvir]

I'm by no means an expert at what I do with the DLL...but some of the design decisions Firaxis made with the AI are just completely baffling. They did all of this work on personalities...and then they just threw it out the window and opted for global defines. Also, no control for change over turn means you get wild swings in attitude. For a AAA game...man, I just don't get it.

People will buy it anyway, so why bother?

 

[Enginseer]

People will buy it anyway, so why bother?

So, if Civ 6 came out like how Civ 5 did without G&K or BNW would you bother to buy it? I sure wouldn't. It would be following how Civ 4 and Civ 5 did of requiring two expansion packs for it to be playable enjoyable

 

[Funak]

So, if Civ 6 came out like how Civ 5 did without G&K or BNW would you bother to buy it? I sure wouldn't. It would be following how Civ 4 and Civ 5 did of requiring two expansion packs for it to be playable enjoyable

I would probably buy it anyways, but considering I went right back to civ 4 after 2 games of civ5 on release I probably wouldn't play it much.