Wait, so the CS luxuries you have do count toward monopolies, but Great Admiral ones aren't? So if you put this on the Glassworks, it wouldn't help with monopolies? If it doesn't help with monopolies, don't bother.
Glass is Hexxon Refineries, Porcelain is Firaxite Materials, Jewelry is Civilized Jewelers.
However, what I meant was for one of the Venice buildings to cause allied CS resources to count towards Venice monopolies. That is, if you have allied with 3 CS's with Copper, Venice would have 3 counts of Copper towards a Monopoly. Might push you over the edge, and probably would help for Strategics.
Wait, so the CS luxuries you have do count toward monopolies, but Great Admiral ones aren't? So if you put this on the Glassworks, it wouldn't help with monopolies? If it doesn't help with monopolies, don't bother.
Yeah this is the big question. Idk where they'd even put it. Venice is already going to be a clusterf**k of great improvements.
If this is doable, its perfect for the Ducat Mint instead of the Doubled Luxuries.
I think you guys are doing a bang good job at confusing the hell out of yourselves.
Luxuries from city-states you own (conquest or MoV) counts for monopolies.
Luxuries from city-states you're allied with does not count for monopolies.
Having a building spawn a luxury on the map is (from what I remember from the Egypt discussion) a crapton of work.
Luxuries added from buildings (like the suggested glasswork) does not help with monopolies.
For testing purposes I actually did a deity-run with Venice this morning, and while I did not managed to snag all the wonders (that's mostly an expression) I did get a lot more than half. I was 8 techs ahead of the second best civ by the time I reached renaissance era, because of how wonders and culture snowball technology.
That run could just have been a fluke, but I'm kinda willing to bet it wasn't.
My wonders: Stonehenge, Great Library Wonders I tried to build and couldn't finish: ToA, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids, Petra, Great Lighthouse Wonders snatched before I could tech into them: Roman Forum, Mausoleum, Statue of Zeus
I strongly imagine Colossus, TGW and Angkor will have been snatched before I tech into them.
This is with a pure production focus (always worked the highest production tiles), and giving full priority to wonders (dropping any unit/building production when a wonder became available). It's in line with my past experiences, although Pyramids and Hanging Gardens were respectively stolen by one and two turns, so it could have turned slightly better.
My wonders: Stonehenge, Great Library Wonders I tried to build and couldn't finish: ToA, Hanging Gardens, Pyramids, Petra, Great Lighthouse Wonders snatched before I could tech into them: Roman Forum, Mausoleum, Statue of Zeus
I strongly imagine Colossus, TGW and Angkor will have been snatched before I tech into them.
This is with a pure production focus (always worked the highest production tiles), and giving full priority to wonders (dropping any unit/building production when a wonder became available). It's in line with my past experiences, although Pyramids and Hanging Gardens were respectively stolen by one and two turns, so it could have turned slightly better.
Wonders snowball into more wonders, I the best AI was at 4 policies when I finished the Hanging Gardens. I imagine your game could have gone in a similar direction, what did you do with your first MoV? I threw mine into a cultured city-state that was nearby.
Great Council - Unlocks at Writing, replaces National Epic, +2 of all base yields, +25% GP production, Advanced Spy Actions can't be taken in this city. Choose one of 3 upgrades at Guilds.
Venetian Arsenal - Engineer specialist slot, +15% Production in city, +6 defense in city, naval units built here get +1 movement +10% strength called "Venetian Craftsmanship"
Murano Glassworks - Artist specialist slot, 2 Art/Artifact slots (+5 science for filling with own works, 1 of each), GP Improvements get +2food +2 tourism in city
Ducat Mint - Merchant specialist slot, investments in this city are 15% more effective(additive), receive 1 vote per 100 gpt(nation-wide) capping at 5, +3 gold to both parties for trade routes to/from this city
Make the MoV Town unique (+1f, +1h, +2g? Remember they don't get the road bonuses) and don't let any puppets build the UB without investment as well.
Venetian Arsenal - Engineer specialist slot, +15% Production in city, +6 defense in city, naval units built here get +1 movement +10% strength called "Venetian Craftsmanship"
I'm not really quite sure why this building adds straight production% instead %production towards military units. I still think the unique promotion sounds too powerful.
Murano Glassworks - Artist specialist slot, 2 Art/Artifact slots (+5 science for filling with own works, 1 of each), GP Improvements get +2food +2 tourism in city
Sounds kinda underwhelming, are people really going to build that many GP improvements? Aren't they rather weak?
Ducat Mint - Merchant specialist slot, investments in this city are 15% more effective(additive), receive 1 vote per 100 gpt(nation-wide) capping at 5, +3 gold to both parties for trade routes to/from this city
Bonuses to investment is really powerful, I hope you're aware of that. (also blatantly ripping of Babylon)
Seeing flat bonuses to votes feels really weird considering pretty much all other vote-bonuses are scaled off number of city-states in the game.
I'm not really quite sure why this building adds straight production% instead %production towards military units. I still think the unique promotion sounds too powerful.
I think %production towards military units is too all-in for military. I also don't think the unique promotion is too powerful, but we can always change it if it is. Is the idea of having a unique promotion a reasonable one?
Sounds kinda underwhelming, are people really going to build that many GP improvements? Aren't they rather weak?
Again, we can edit the numbers as we playtest. Do you think people will always build so few GP improvements that this is an inherently bad mechanic? I think its reasonable to build GP improvements in Venice, but I also think GP improvements are pretty decent anyway.
Bonuses to investment is really powerful, I hope you're aware of that. (also blatantly ripping of Babylon)
Seeing flat bonuses to votes feels really weird considering pretty much all other vote-bonuses are scaled off number of city-states in the game.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the bonus to investment. But no I don't think it will be powerful at all here, because this works only in the capital, Venice, the city where you will already have everything built super quick anyway.
Yeah its true that all other vote bonuses are scaled off of CS in the game, but in Venice's case their empire strength scales off of CS instead. So something still scales off CS, and in Venice's case its empire strength and not votes. I think that part is fine, though again the scaling could be off.
Instead of investment bonus, how about +1 hammer from all specialists in the city?
I think %production towards military units is too all-in for military. I also don't think the unique promotion is too powerful, but we can always change it if it is. Is the idea of having a unique promotion a reasonable one?
I think a bonus to CS/RCS for boats would be fine, I think extra movement is kinda overdoing it. Sight might be fine.
Wasn't that the whole point? The UBs should be all in towards their purposes, you're not supposed to pick the Arsenal so you can build wonders faster.
Again, we can edit the numbers as we playtest. Do you think people will always build so few GP improvements that this is an inherently bad mechanic? I think its reasonable to build GP improvements in Venice, but I also think GP improvements are pretty decent anyway.
I don't know, I don't build that many GP improvements, the ones I actually keep building the longest are the Towns, but I don't imagine I'd build many of them as Venice.
I never settle Academies in my capitals workable range, I never settle holy-sites within workable range either (I guess it does depend on the founder-belief, with this building I probably would settle holy-sites in capital range, but then again Holy-sites are expensive)
I don't think 2 slots for great work of art is anywhere near as good as a unique promotion for all ships or a bonus to production (even if it's military only). Out of the 3 suggested ones this stands out as by far the weakest.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the bonus to investment. But no I don't think it will be powerful at all here, because this works only in the capital, Venice, the city where you will already have everything built super quick anyway.
Maybe, but investing in the buildings you need means you have more hammers to throw onto wonders (I mean you have all the national wonders to build here as well)
Yeah its true that all other vote bonuses are scaled off of CS in the game, but in Venice's case their empire strength scales off of CS instead. So something still scales off CS, and in Venice's case its empire strength and not votes. I think that part is fine, though again the scaling could be off.
In my opinion, sight is more valuable than movement. By the time this comes online (renaissance), you're sending ships into the ocean. Scouting and spotting other ships is more important than catching them, since you can actually surround them by spreading out your fleet.
Wasn't that the whole point? The UBs should be all in towards their purposes, you're not supposed to pick the Arsenal so you can build wonders faster.
Tourism is useful for other purposes, but one of the buildings is geared toward tourism. What if you don't want any of the 3 buildings because they're all so specific? I think some flexibility is in order.
I don't know, I don't build that many GP improvements, the ones I actually keep building the longest are the Towns, but I don't imagine I'd build many of them as Venice.
I never settle Academies in my capitals workable range, I never settle holy-sites within workable range either (I guess it does depend on the founder-belief, with this building I probably would settle holy-sites in capital range, but then again Holy-sites are expensive)
Well, I do as Venice. And I agree that Holy Sites are very expensive. Probably too expensive...
I don't think 2 slots for great work of art is anywhere near as good as a unique promotion for all ships or a bonus to production (even if it's military only). Out of the 3 suggested ones this stands out as by far the weakest.
How about GP Improvements AND villages get +2 food +2 tourism in the city?
Maybe, but investing in the buildings you need means you have more hammers to throw onto wonders (I mean you have all the national wonders to build here as well)
Gameplay theme is diplomacy and flexibility. There's 2 wide-neutral buffs (votes and trade routes), so it seems appropriate to have a flexible but centralized buff (hammers on specialists).
Flavor theme is Ducats, which represented Venice's wealth and density. The city always had materials it needed due to trade, and the finest craftsmen worked in the city with great efficiency due to the guilds and merchant focus of the lawmakers.
Of course we could swap the GP improvement and +specialists buffs between the Glassworks and Ducat Mint if you feel that's a better theme, but we'd have to convert the bonuses to/from tourism/gold styles.
Well they keep getting price-increases for some weird reason, now the third prophet (first holy-site) is at 2200(or 2400, can't remember) faith, which is crazy. This is sorta not an issue if you're playing with JFDs religion mod I guess, but still.
How about GP Improvements AND villages get +2 food +2 tourism in the city?
It was an example, the number of votes importance scales heavily with the mapsize (and number of city-states available).
Also I believe a duel map have like 4 or 6 city-states, so it's not that bad.
Gameplay theme is diplomacy and flexibility. There's 2 wide-neutral buffs (votes and trade routes), so it seems appropriate to have a flexible but centralized buff (hammers on specialists).
Flavor theme is Ducats, which represented Venice's wealth and density. The city always had materials it needed due to trade, and the finest craftsmen worked in the city with great efficiency due to the guilds and merchant focus of the lawmakers.
Of course we could swap the GP improvement and +specialists buffs between the Glassworks and Ducat Mint if you feel that's a better theme, but we'd have to convert the bonuses to/from tourism/gold styles.
It was an example, the number of votes importance scales heavily with the mapsize (and number of city-states available).
Also I believe a duel map have like 4 or 6 city-states, so it's not that bad.
I don't see what this had to do at all with my post, but probably no.
I mean the cap on the votes from the building should scale with the number of city-states, probably capping out at maybe twice, or 150% of the forbidden palace (sounds fair?)
I mean the cap on the votes from the building should scale with the number of city-states, probably capping out at maybe twice, or 150% of the forbidden palace (sounds fair?)
Isn't my suggestion capping at twice of the forbidden palace? FP gives 1 for 4 city states in game. If you capture them all you would get 1 for 2 city states in game with the Ducal Mint.
Isn't my suggestion capping at twice of the forbidden palace? FP gives 1 for 4 city states in game. If you capture them all you would get 1 for 2 city states in game with the Ducal Mint.
Well, why would the diplo-building promote capturing city-state? Makes no sense to me at all.
The forbidden palace was way stronger than I actually remembered, the ducat mint should probably cap at the same number of votes as the FP in that case.
New version sounds pretty interesting. I'd still like to see someone with the ability to annex city states and retain their yields, but I can see how just being able to buy such an advantage would probably be too strong. Maybe give it to Venice? They'd be inherently limited in how many they could take by merchant generation.
Random idea edit: How attached are you to the Doge's Palace? It just occurred to me that the courthouse is literally a useless building to Venice. There is no circumstance where you'd be able to build one. What if the Venetian UB was a courthouse replacement that could be built in purchased city-states instead of conquered cities, and instead of eliminating occupation unhappiness it gave the ally yields for the CS it was built in?
I must say this is my favourite suggestion I've seen so far and by far.
This could be broken, could be underpowered but it sure will be fun. +1 to this, if it's too powerful how about making it just give Friend bonuses?
But what should it do in regular conquered cities that belonged to other civs?
I must say this is my favourite suggestion I've seen so far and by far.
This could be broken, could be underpowered but it sure will be fun. +1 to this, if it's too powerful how about making it just give Friend bonuses?
But what should it do in regular conquered cities that belonged to other civs?
Meh, there's several Swordsmen, Longswordsmen, Archer UU's, I don't see the problem here.
Also there's several UB replacements that take the same slot too, like Wat and Korea's University thing, there's also two Temples (at least there were for some time - what is Candi now?). There's also UIs discovered at the same tech like Chateau and Kasbah, for a long time we had two UBs taking Library (Royal Library and previous Paper Maker until it got turned into Tea Thing and back into Paper Maker) and two Monuments back when Rome had Triumphal Arch.
Meh, there's several Swordsmen, Longswordsmen, Archer UU's, I don't see the problem here.
Also there's several UB replacements that take the same slot too, like Wat and Korea's University thing, there's also two Temples (at least there were for some time - what is Candi now?). There's also UIs discovered at the same tech like Chateau and Kasbah, for a long time we had two UBs taking Library (Royal Library and previous Paper Maker until it got turned into Tea Thing and back into Paper Maker) and two Monuments back when Rome had Triumphal Arch.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
