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Version 2.6 discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rise of Mankind' started by zappara, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. c0d5579

    c0d5579 General Know-It-All

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    Still, that strikes me as more of a post-Biological Warfare espionage mission that causes a disease than an actual disease, unless there's a "holy crap, the monkeys are loose!" event.

    EDIT:
    Back to the military issue - I was considering a modern promotion, "Combat Engineer," requiring Combat 3, City Raider 3, or Amphibious, available only to gunpowder units. There are several possibilities as to what it could do...

    1 - Reduce movement costs as per Mobility
    2 - Reduce or eliminate defensive bonus from city or fortification
    3 - Allow instant fortification of a unit

    With this, then, I'd also recommend a unit, Combat Engineer, that gains the promotion at creation, which Flamethrower could upgrade to. Statistically it should be similar to the other specialized infantry formations, Marine and Paratrooper, with perhaps a "Modern Sapper" unit upgrade.

    EDIT2:
    Argh - one of the things I like about this mod is that Elephants can do something other than attack horsemen; I saw the Combat Engineer unit as being able to do similar things (build Roads, Forts, Bunkers, clear woods and jungle) in the modern era.
     
  2. Jabarto

    Jabarto Emperor

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    Would it be possible to add more levels of barbarian activity? I really miss the 5 or 6 that civ 3 had, as opposed to the "None/High/Absurdly High" levels in Civ4.
     
  3. Complex

    Complex Chieftain

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    EDIT - ignore this post, i misread something and replied in error
     
  4. konradcabral

    konradcabral Prince

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    New City Culture Levels... :lol:
    Any other thing we could improve?

    Respectfully, totally disagree. I'd love to see more resources at future versions. I'll explain:

    - About resources left out: I, at least, wouldn't mind if a generated map not had a essential resource. I'd like to imagine/simulate how mankind would progress without sulphur, for instance, as well I like to see the Eiffel Tower in Tokyo and Islam being founded at New York. My fun with Civ is based on questions "What if...?". More, if people do not agree with my very unusual opinion (yes, I know it), I think Zap can twist the parameters in order to guarantee the major resources at every map.

    - About balance / trade issues: one possible fix to the problem of happiness / health unbalance and the other problem you talked about trade getting useless is: why not multiply the most of the unhappiness and unhealth per 2 and the most of the happiness and health per 1.5 (adjustable). This would generate an empty space we could use for putting new resources and turn more unique the existing ones. I don't know if it would work, but there it is, my opinion.
     
  5. c0d5579

    c0d5579 General Know-It-All

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    There is an issue with resources, true. What this means to me is either higher resource occurrence (I mean, really, how rare is building-quality stone?) or if any resource changes are made, they need to focus on resource placement that would normally be otherwise bare of resources - sea resources, in short.

    About obsidian, I've been torn on that one for a while. On the one hand, I agree, it's a subgroup of stone, and doesn't add a whole lot given that the late-game uses of obsidian (surgical instruments, etc.) have never been implemented. On the other, we know from history that it can be used to equip units up to Swordsman-equivalent (the Aztec macahuitl is meant to be used like a sword, by a warrior equipped like a European swordsman, with shield, body armor, and sword). Could this be done with plain Stone? Absolutely. Still... if we have four kinds of meat animal, four kinds of grain, two kinds of metallurgical resource, two (three if you include Gems) precious metals, and four kinds of seafood, it's hard to say "exclude Obsidian because it's too like Stone!"
     
  6. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I think the more the resources the better. The reason is not all places in the world use all the resources. For instance North America having corn, Europe and the middle east having wheat and Asia having rice. Sure they are all grains but they are indigenous to that region of the world. Why not have a local fruit or sea food that is equivalent to one in another part of the world. It happens in real life why not in game too?
     
  7. little_cyclone

    little_cyclone Loyal Civ4 & C2C mod player

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    I agree, for the most part, but I've run into a few maps where theres been no Oil, and it really drags things down... I have no problem fighting over a minute supply of a resource, such is the nature of life, but when they are missing altogether it really becomes more of an annoyance then an interest. :)
     
  8. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

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    Another thing to add is civilization-specific great people names. Zoroaster being born in America brings a "what if," but as it keeps happening it just becomes annoying. Instead of one master list, each civilization should have a list of names it takes from for each GP. For example this is a partial list for America...

    GE: Eli Whitney, Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, ETC.

    GA: Mark Twain, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Louis Armstrong, Elvis Presley, Bob Dylan, ETC.

    GS: Stanley Miller, John Bardeen, Edwin Hubble, ETC.

    GM: Cornelius Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, ETC.

    GP: Ralph Waldo Emerson (preached transcendentalism), Joseph Tracy, William Bradshaw, ETC.

    GG: Andrew Jackson, William Henry Harrison, Zachary Taylor, Winfield Scott, Ulysses S. Grant, William T. Sherman, George Patton, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight D. Eisenhower, ETC.

    This thread already has some work done on ideas.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=207273
     
  9. jm_dracolich

    jm_dracolich Chieftain

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    The only problem with civ specific GP names is that we don't know a lot of people from every culture. We hardly know anybody from Sumeria for example, except for Gilgamesh and Sargon, and some of the other kings on the King List. Those could be Great Generals, but we don't have artists, merchants, scientists, etc... I love the idea of civ specific GP names, I've wanted it for a long time. But I don't really think it's possible. Unless some lists are shared... but then it's unrealistic again.

    EDIT--
    Hmm well after going to that link, it seems like somebody already did all of it, and if it were to be implemented in ROM, it would only need to be converted a bit to be compatible. It seems pretty good too. So I'm all for it. :D
     
  10. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

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    The thread I posted has a lot of GP ideas for Babylon and Sumeria. The only difficult ones would be Assyria, Iroquois, Mongolia, ETC. Greece, Rome, China, Britain, France, Russia, ETC. would be a breeze.
     
  11. c0d5579

    c0d5579 General Know-It-All

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    Could be like the artstyle lists - you have a regional great person list.
     
  12. RandallS_1985

    RandallS_1985 Chieftain

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    Have you considered merging the Stone Age 2 mod with this. There seem to be some pretty interesting ideas for stone age techs in it. ROMK already goes really far into the future, why not start deep into the past as well. Perhaps a game that begins in almost complete resource ignorance.
     
  13. JarlFrank

    JarlFrank Chieftain

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    About the Great Person thing, while it might be hard to find some specific great persons for factions like Zulu, you could add some general culture-specific great persons. Zulu and Ethiopia would then get general African great persons, while other countries like Germany, France or the USA could get great persons from their own countries. That would be the best way I think.

    Although this is not so important, since it's interesting to have Moses born in Berlin in the year 1246^^
     
  14. konradcabral

    konradcabral Prince

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    I agree. Also interesting is to have Isaac Newton born in Istambul in the year 1990. :lol:
     
  15. Guardian_PL

    Guardian_PL Emperor

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    Wow, long time, no posts, just popped in on that Christmas time to check out on things.

    And I have one question only - how's it going regarding basic food yield? Is it still the same, like 4:food: with cottage and 5:food: with farm? That's the only thing about Rise Of Mankind that bothers me - that it's better to found cities with as little resources as possible, since matured cottages own all the other tiles.

    I've even started a thread about it back then - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295235

    I'd be happy to get any news on that :)
     
  16. Complex

    Complex Chieftain

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    True, but the inherent problem with adding Stone Age "technology" is that Stone Age mankind was so primitive it's hard to imagine them building cities and whatnot. Going back to stone age in Civ terms, you would essentially have some warriors roaming the country side killing animals and fortifying for a few turns and then moving on. Cities and civilization as we know it basically started happening around the advent of agriculture. As people realized they could grow exponentially more food than by hunting/gathering alone, the excess food surpluses are what allowed mankind to stay in one place and dramatically expand the population. Once every single member of the tribe was not solely devoted to the gathering of resources, it allowed people to focus on other pursuits, i.e. government, standing armies, religion, art, etc..

    Discoveries like fire are so old the game would have to start thousands of years earlier, and things like foraging are so basic, humans have been doing them since we were apes.
     
  17. styfken

    styfken Chieftain

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    I think that the number or tanks, destroyers, jeps, etc. should be linked to the "oil products" output of the civilization. At the moment, once you have only one oil refinery, you can build as many destroyers, bettleships, tanks, etc. you wish, there is no restriction.

    However, there should be a restriction as to how many of these units you can own, based on your production/output of oil products, valcunised rubber, etc. If you have only one oil refinery in your entire civilization for example, you should be only able to produce a certain number of units that use oil. The same should apply for "valcunised rubber", "ammunition", etc., restricting the number of (for example) infantries that you can own per "filling factory" in your civilization, and so on.

    This would make it more interesting in terms of managing your buildings in each city, i.e. when to build and which building should come first, as well as in terms of diplomacy, even if you have, say, 2 "oil products" you could still be looking for more and actively try to trade with another civilization.

    It could be expanded to gold, silver and the output of other resources. The number of oil resources that you own, for example, should restrict the number of "oil refineries" you can build in your cities (unless of course you import more from other civilizations).
     
  18. debressac

    debressac Chieftain

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    When a Great Wonder becomes obsolete, the city that built it should be able to build a "more modern" one.
     
  19. hlacey

    hlacey Chieftain

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    - New corporations, more individual, perhaps nationally orientated.

    - Maybe sapper units? Can build bridges to get rid of cost of attacking over rivers?

    - Estimates of casualties during battles? A bit pointless, but it adds to the realism. Also - civilian casualties of bombardments etc., could negatively impact relations with other leaders through accusations of war crimes.

    - Expanded UN - more resolutions, more effect.

    - More emphasis on economics and keeping inflation down to a reasonable level.

    - Perhaps some way to actively combat global warming? However realistic it is, it's seriously annoying.
     
  20. zappara

    zappara Mod Designer

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    Had some time during weekend and did some changes to RoM...

    Working-in-progress notes:
    Spoiler :
    Terrain
    -------
    - Changed: Coast movement cost 2
    - Changed: Ocean movement cost 3

    Promotions
    ----------
    - Changed: Navigation I no longer require Flanking I, gives now move discount 1 instead of movement +1 (ie. if terrain requires 2 moves, with this promotion it requires just 1, useful for coastal movement)
    - Changed: Navigation II movement +1
    - Changed: Pinch 3 button
    - Added: Navigation III, terrain double moves on coast and ocean, req. tech Navigation
    - Added: Manuevering I-III combat +% against Wooden ships
    - Added: Coastal Guard I-III, defense +% on coast
    - Added: Coastal Assault I-III, attack +% on coast
    - Added: Bombarding I-III, bonus for ships for bombardment
    - Added: Firearms I-III, bonus for wooden ships against woodenships (crew armed with flintlock muskets)
    - Added: Air Defense I-III interception bonus for later era ships, wheeled and siege units can use I-II promotions
    - Changed: Segmented Armor button
    - Changed: Commando can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Desert Combat I can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Arctic Combat I can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Ambush I-II can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Amphibious can be used by Clone and Helicopter units
    - Changed: Anti-Biological Warfare can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Anti-Tank Defense I-III can be used by Clone units, gives now bonus against Dreadnought units
    - Changed: Charge I-III can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Guerilla I-III can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Heal can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: March can be used by Clone units
    - changed: Speed can be used by Clone units
    - Changed: Woodsman I-III can be used by Clone units



    Maps
    ----
    - Added: Antarctica 1.01 map, original map by -sr
    - Added: Tamriel large map, original map by -sr
    - Added: Tamriel huge map, original map by -sr
    - Added: EarthSea map, original map by -sr

    Techs
    -----
    - Changed: Compass gives +1 movement on sea
    - Changed: Amphibious warfare removed Military Science AND tech req. (included in prereqs. already)
    - Changed: Artificial Intelligence removed Composites AND tech req. (included in prereqs. already)
    - Changed: Artillery removed Rifling AND tech req. (included in prereqs. already)


    Units
    -----
    - Changed: Iron Frigate ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Ironclad ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Transport ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Landing ship tank ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Early destroyer ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 5 (due to promotion line changes)
    - Changed: Destroyer ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 5
    - Changed: Battlecruiser ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: BAttleship ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: BAttleship Yamato ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Cruiser ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 5
    - Changed: Missile Cruiser ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Stealth Destroyer ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 20
    - Changed: Aegis ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 20
    - Changed: Stiletto boat ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 5
    - Changed: Fusion Transport ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 5
    - Changed: Submarine ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Attack Submarine ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Nuclear Submarine ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Stealth Submarine ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Carrier ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Nuclear Carrier ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Fusion Cruiser ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 20
    - Changed: Fusion Battleship ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Fusion Carrier ignore terrain cost
    - Changed: Fusion Destroyer ignore terrain cost, intercept chance reduced to 20
    - Changed: Colonist button
    - Changed: Pioneer button
    - Changed: Anti-Air Gun now in wheeled weapon group, upgrades to Mobile SAM instead of Flak88 (longer use)
    - Changed: Flak88 now immobile unit, moved to siege unit group, upgrades to Mobile SAM instead of SAM Infantry (longer use)
    - Changed: Motorcycle requires Semi-Automatic weapons, belongs now to Recon unit group, flat movement costs, ignores terrain movement costs, strength 18->15, only defensive, same free promotions as adventurer has, no longer flanking strikes
    - Changed: Hellenic missionary graphics
    - Changed: Zoroastrian missionary graphics
    - Changed: Amun-Ra missionary graphics
    - Changed: Nagual missionary graphics
    - Changed: Crusader can not be trained anymore, instead King Richard's Crusade wonder provides these units every few turns
    - Changed: Cuirassier no longer upgrade to Motorcycle
    - Changed: Conquistador no longer upgrade to Motorcycle
    - Changed: Cavalry units no longer upgrade to Motorcycle
    - Changed: Adventurer upgrades to Motorcycle
    - Changed: Assault Mech air combat limit 50%, bombard rate 25%


    Traits
    ------
    - Changed: Aggressive gets Combat I promotion for Hi-Tech and Assault Mech units
    - Changed: Protective gets free promotions for Hi-Tech units
    - Added: Nomad (not in use yet), free promotions for recon, animal, mounted and wheeled units
    - Added: Agricultural (not in use yet), bonus to food production
    - Added: Seafaring (not in use yet), free promotions to ships
    - Added: Deceiver (not in use yet), might be renamed to Treacherous/Traitorous, +2 espionage per city, free promotions to spies
    - Added: Scientific (not in use yet) +2 science per city, +10% research

    Buildings
    ---------
    - Changed: Stable double production speed with Nomad trait
    - Changed: Mongol Ger double production speed with Nomad trait
    - Changed: Guild Hall graphics
    - Changed: Healer's Hut button
    - Changed: Intelligence Agency gives +2 free experience for Spy units
    - Changed: Security Bureau gives +1 free experience for Spy units


    Terrain
    -------
    - Added: Storm feature to Ocean / Coast
     

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