Version 2.7 discussion

[Retrospect]

I agree, nor does it make sense for forest to remain in a location where a pasture is built. A pasture is by definition a clearing devoid of trees where grasses and ground cover is allowed to grow to provide grazing for livestock. The one thing that would make sense though is to allow orchards the same health bonus that a forest does.

Agreed on both counts!

Although after saying that, I believe the original reason to allow forest to remain was so that it was possible to construct /pastures/mines etc without the need of bronze working, the production bonus was meant to be relinquished ie. no extra production for the forest. But somewhere along the line that production bonus has been reintroduced. Now while I completely agree that mines should be able to be built on forest tiles without removing the forest I'm still not sure that the production bonus for the forest should remian... to be honest it probably should. But I stand by what I said previously about plantations, orchards and agree with 0100010 on the pastures.

 

[DRJ]

The one thing that would make sense though is to allow orchards the same health bonus that a forest does.

[satire on]...Regarding the extreme over-manuring and biospheric corrosion of certain monocultures?[satire off]

I think farms should give a negative health bonus (-1 ) for that
as well as a -1 after 100 turns or so (to be programmed like cottages) to represent the thinning of nutrients after continuous usage before the discovery of crop rotation in the middle ages, which then would nullify this malus.
By now farms are far too superior to cottages, especially with democracy, so this could be a nice leveler.

 

[Bezhukov]

[satire on]...Regarding the extreme over-manuring and biospheric corrosion of certain monocultures?[satire off]

I think farms should give a negative health bonus (-1 ) for that
as well as a -1 after 100 turns or so (to be programmed like cottages) to represent the thinning of nutrients after continuous usage before the discovery of crop rotation in the middle ages, which then would nullify this malus.
By now farms are far too superior to cottages, especially with democracy, so this could be a nice leveler.

Perhaps allowing wooded cottages to level things out a bit? Lately I've been workshopping all my forest tiles (with a farm or two to get the growth going) for the prole commerce, then later switching to lumbermills. Trade routes provide all the commerce one needs presently. In other words, forests are rarely cleared and cottages rarely built.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I've considered Bee/Honey resource as I've had graphics for it for a year but no, I won't add that resource. But there's many resources without buttons/icons (I think), I just had to make button + icons for Shrimp resource as those graphics weren't available so if maybe you could help, not just me, but the whole fanatics community by making some new resource graphics.

If you are not going to add honey as a resource can you add it as a random event to existing resources? For instance in the way that mines can get tin or pearls become black pearls? Maybe a farm could spawn a apiary (+food, +health, +gold). Please?

I've also added Shrimp resource - someone has been asking for it long time.. just can't now remember who...

.

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic because i have been asking over and over for shrimp for a long time. So I gave up on it and then suggested honey. Then you go and allow shrimp. LOL

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6540179#post6540179

Oh btw i did asked for the Rev Mod back then. I am so glad you added it. It makes the game so much better.

 

[os79]

Hello,

If I'm behind in discussion, apologies...

Any here is my suggestion if you are going to enhance on Middle Ages (and I support that idea) I would propose that you add another game speed that is extra longer than Marathon because I just went from Classic to Renassiance (sp?) in like 15 turns in my current game and it is at Marathon speed. Now, it may be because of my smart researching strategizing but still an extra longer game can be cool for people who want longer Middle Ages portion.

But this suggestion is a minor one because in history the Middles Ages was a comparatively short period of humankind.

Good luck on updating to 2.7 and I'm personally LOOKING FORWARD to that !!

 

[Retrospect]

Hello,

If I'm behind in discussion, apologies...

Any here is my suggestion if you are going to enhance on Middle Ages (and I support that idea) I would propose that you add another game speed that is extra longer than Marathon because I just went from Classic to Renassiance (sp?) in like 15 turns in my current game and it is at Marathon speed. Now, it may be because of my smart researching strategizing but still an extra longer game can be cool for people who want longer Middle Ages portion.

But this suggestion is a minor one because in history the Middles Ages was a comparatively short period of humankind.

Good luck on updating to 2.7 and I'm personally LOOKING FORWARD to that !!

With ROM there are two extra speed settings, Bltz (quickest setting but cant remember the details) and Snail, the longest setting. Twice as long as marathon at something like 3100 turns.

Although I have to say that getting from classical to renaissance in 15 turns at marathon setting seems a little unlikely.... even with a slingshot

 

[generalstaff]

If you are not going to add honey as a resource can you add it as a random event to existing resources? For instance in the way that mines can get tin or pearls become black pearls? Maybe a farm could spawn a apiary (+food, +health, +gold). Please?

Random Event: Bees!
1. Figure out how to keep bees and build a apiary (Req. Agriculture, 50 gold, +1 Food and +2 Commerce for tile).
2. Raid hives, we need that food now (+6 Food stores)!
3. Leave nature be, the bees are important to the ecosystem (Req. Environmentalism, Free Forest and Forest Preserve on tile).

 

[Jabarto]

[satire on]...Regarding the extreme over-manuring and biospheric corrosion of certain monocultures?[satire off]

I think farms should give a negative health bonus (-1 ) for that
as well as a -1 after 100 turns or so (to be programmed like cottages) to represent the thinning of nutrients after continuous usage before the discovery of crop rotation in the middle ages, which then would nullify this malus.
By now farms are far too superior to cottages, especially with democracy, so this could be a nice leveler.

If you think Cottages are too weak, I think a more elegant solution would be to simply restore the +1 Food on Villages and Towns.

Anyway, I have a proposal; Make Coal visible with Gunpowder (Coal was a major ingredient in gunpowder).

 

[0100010]

If you think Cottages are too weak, I think a more elegant solution would be to simply restore the +1 Food on Villages and Towns.

Anyway, I have a proposal; Make Coal visible with Gunpowder (Coal was a major ingredient in gunpowder).

Your thinking of of charcoal. Gunpowder = Charcoal + Sulfur + Saltpeter.

Charcoal is produced from literally cooking wood in a specific manner, it is not the same thing as coal dug from a mine, although both of course have a high level of burnable carbon content. If you used coal instead of charcoal you would get a slow burning effect that would not have sufficient explosive force.

 

[Jabarto]

Your thinking of of charcoal. Gunpowder = Charcoal + Sulfur + Saltpeter.

Charcoal is produced from literally cooking wood in a specific manner, it is not the same thing as coal dug from a mine, although both of course have a high level of burnable carbon content. If you used coal instead of charcoal you would get a slow burning effect that would not have sufficient explosive force.

I knew I should have wiki'd that before posting.

 

[massimo mario]

hi.
first of all i must say big THANKS to zappara that with his greatful mod was able to renew the pleasure of playing civ like another X.0 version.
realism has made a big jump. but still i would like some work in this direction. something like roman empire (700 b.c - 400 a.d. circa) can't be built with current time running.
i tried epic timeline and my first town, after grown at size 4, needs 25 turns to build a settler, and that means 625 years!!!.
i think that, while a science progress can takes some hundred years to achieve, moving from a town to next one can't take a century, so can't build a city improvement or a road ...

 

[Tekener]

I run some snail games to see how tech develops with the in 2.6 changes 500% tech costs (on normal maps) and the computers and me were still ahead of time. So I played around with the cost factor in CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml came to values of 700%-800% tech cost for snail games that works fine. Tech in the beginning is rather slow developing, but as soon as you have several relegions with multiple 10% bonueses in all cities and other stuff the tech is boosting away at 500%.

So I suggest the tech cost change of snail games setting to 700% instead 500%.

 

[Tekener]

hi.
i tried epic timeline and my first town, after grown at size 4, needs 25 turns to build a settler, and that means 625 years!!!.
i think that, while a science progress can takes some hundred years to achieve, moving from a town to next one can't take a century, so can't build a city improvement or a road ...

I do agree. While Setterls are that expensive to avoid massive spreading of the civs in the beginning, I think with RoM there are enough limiting points. Even with Settlers being build within a few rounds the maintenance costs of new cities alone will limit the expansion and with Revolution mod turned on you better grow slowly.

However if the civ is doing very well and could support a larger early empire (like the ones we had on earth some thousend years BC) I would suggest this change for settlers:

• reducing costs to the same as workers (see this as gathering together the resources/people for a trek)
• reducing city size by one (as some of the inhabitants is leaving the city with the trek)

This would be more "natural" in my opinion - what do you think?

 

[zappara]

Been thinking about this one. If you were going to have an apple orchard you would not have any other trees within the orchard.... certainly no trees that would be used for manufacturing purposes ie lumber. So getting the +1 production for leaving the forest intact would not make sense in my opinion. I personally think that all plantations/orchards etc should have the forest/ jungle removed.... surely that is what placing the plantation simulates, the maximization of the land to accomodate the appropriate crop.

Small calculation: Since Earth is 40000+ km around and if civ map has 100 plot width, then one plot is 400 km x400 km. If you think about how huge area that is, certainly Orchards couldn't fill that area entirely and there would be still large natural forested areas in it.

I think farms should give a negative health bonus (-1 ) for thatas well as a -1 after 100 turns or so (to be programmed like cottages) to represent the thinning of nutrients after continuous usage before the discovery of crop rotation in the middle ages, which then would nullify this malus. By now farms are far too superior to cottages, especially with democracy, so this could be a nice leveler.

Not sure if it was mentioned in recent update notes but currently on my progress version Farm gives +1 food initially (resources have their own bonuses of course) and Crop rotation tech adds +1 food. In RoM v2.6 farm gives +2 food initially. So your suggestion is already implemented

If you are not going to add honey as a resource can you add it as a random event to existing resources? For instance in the way that mines can get tin or pearls become black pearls? Maybe a farm could spawn a apiary (+food, +health, +gold). Please?

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic because i have been asking over and over for shrimp for a long time. So I gave up on it and then suggested honey. Then you go and allow shrimp. LOL

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6540179#post6540179

Oh btw i did asked for the Rev Mod back then. I am so glad you added it. It makes the game so much better.

Bees fit nicely for random event And thanks, now I remember who was asking for shrimp resource.

Hello,

If I'm behind in discussion, apologies...

Any here is my suggestion if you are going to enhance on Middle Ages (and I support that idea) I would propose that you add another game speed that is extra longer than Marathon because I just went from Classic to Renassiance (sp?) in like 15 turns in my current game and it is at Marathon speed. Now, it may be because of my smart researching strategizing but still an extra longer game can be cool for people who want longer Middle Ages portion.

I might be able to tweak gamespeeds so that more turns are devoted to middle game part but that needs careful calculations/testing so that the eras/techs aren't too much off the historical timeline.

I run some snail games to see how tech develops with the in 2.6 changes 500% tech costs (on normal maps) and the computers and me were still ahead of time. So I played around with the cost factor in CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml came to values of 700%-800% tech cost for snail games that works fine. Tech in the beginning is rather slow developing, but as soon as you have several relegions with multiple 10% bonueses in all cities and other stuff the tech is boosting away at 500%.

So I suggest the tech cost change of snail games setting to 700% instead 500%.

What difficulty were you using? This should help me tweak that gamespeed a bit for next version.

@everyone

Don't expect v2.7 anytime soon. I try to devote some of my time to playing RoM v2.62 and once you start to play, you can't stop - 'one more turn'...

 

[Zorn]

Hello, I would like to give a few comments on this wonderful mod. Unfortunately, it`s mostly about things I don`t like, but don`t get me wrong - this mod is great.

Wishes first:

Would it be possible to merge The Lopez Route Pillage Mod in?

Could you create some popup that informs you about conquered wonders in a city? It`s kinda sad to accidentially burn, lets say olymic games down because you weren`t aware it`s located it the city you just took.

Suggestions now:

4 Wonders per city: I see the point of inhibiting the supercity which has the output of a small empire on it`s own, but only 4 seems a bit harsh. What about 4 not-obsolete wonders?

The trade caravan seems quite powerful to me. On snail/gigantic it nets 420 gold per mission (don`t now if it scales with speed or size - speed yould mae more sense). That means a single semi-decent city which produces a caravan every 6 or so turns completely runs your whole economy by it`s own, since the caravan ust has to go to the nearest foreign town to generate the full amount of money. Maybe it isn`t a problem on other sizes/speeds, but on my combination it seems bro0ken.
I don`t really now how to fix that, since it has to be more efficient than ust to build wealth. Maybe mae the profit depend on the distance/size of the target city, like for a GM? That way you would have to invest time and tae a risk to get the reward, and if the caravan is a national unit it would not be such a money generating machine.

 

[Tekener]

What difficulty were you using? This should help me tweak that gamespeed a bit for next version.

I used Prince and Monarch and compared the overall tech of the computer players and me with the "real" timeline. When using 800% and Prince I just discovered "Steel" at 1680 (wasn't aiming for it, had my research fairly balanced).

 

[James009]

What if you added some sort of a hero unit? Or something like a "regicide" sovereign?

I don't know if anyone here has played Fall from Heaven mod but its got some really unique and incredible features, one of which is Adventurers.

What if each civilization could start with a sovereign unit who would over time gain more exp and get new abilities. You create a whole new promotion tree specifically for them (like you did with the spy) but similar to the FfH spell system. These abilities would then be added to the unit which he or she could then use or "cast" on cities. The abilities would do things like increase commerce, production, culture, science, or happiness depending on what promotions you give them.

So they would be similar to a great leader but their difference is that their effects are a little weaker but more varied and they can move around freely.

Ideas for the tree would be:
Economy- Adds income to the city
Industry- Adds production to the city
Scientific- Adds science to the city
Cultural- Adds culture to the city
Entertainment- Adds happiness and later a small amount of culture to the city
Diplomacy- Can send to foreign countries and gain diplomatic bonuses with them. Must be stationed in foreign city to maintain effects (like a negotiation or diplomatic envoy).
Military- A number of military bonuses to give units around them things like +1 attack or defense or free strike.

You'd only have one great leader and if he or she dies then your out of luck or you lose (if in a regicide game mode).

Anyways, if you have played games like Civ 3 or Age of Empires you should know what regicide game mode is and if you play Fall from Heaven then you can better understand the spell system and the hero units that this idea is inspired upon.

Just a thought...

 

[Retrospect]

Small calculation: Since Earth is 40000+ km around and if civ map has 100 plot width, then one plot is 400 km x400 km. If you think about how huge area that is, certainly Orchards couldn't fill that area entirely and there would be still large natural forested areas in it.

Somehow I knew that point was going to be brought up and luckily I have already thought of a riposte

I was always under the assumption that a resource did not cover the whole landmass of the tile. But however I assumed that the tile represented the most notable feature of that area.... ie. there is coal here but also alot of other stuff, but they key factor being that there is coal there.

While your point makes perfect sense I would then suggest that using the same rationale there could be many different resources on any one plot. Say pigs, Iron, Oil, Trees...... while that is perfectly realistic it doesn't really make for a good gamplay situation.

I know i'm probably splitting hairs but as I said earlier, surely the resource marked on the tile is the most notable thing there and should be kept down to one per tile. But hey its a minor point and one that most people probably aren't all that bothered about

 

[Munger]

I also prefer to keep it how it is already and not allow forests to remain once a resource is being harvested (i.e. an orchard or whatever is built on it). Zap is absolutely correct regarding how large resource tiles would be in reality, but I just think it works better for gameplay purposes to have to clear away the existing tile feature first.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Are there any plans to improve the Imperialistic trait? Currently, it is quite limited and weak. I was thinking it could possibly have some sort of trade bonus to abstract in economic imperialism as practiced against China and other states in the 19th-century and arguably still done today. I would've modded it myself, but I've never worked with the trade tags, so I just had it give gunpowder units shock and cover, to better squish primitive natives, though that may not be terribly useful in RoM...