Very quick noob SG

[GreyFox]

After turns comments:

I was playing and did not see the comments from bpierfy, so did not go for IW. My opinion is that since we do have (or more correctly, are going to have) copper, I don't think IW is that crucial.

Instead I go along with the wheel (we need it to connect the resources) and pottery for the cottages. Hope I did not screw up too badly on this.

Now that we see stones, do we want to settle agressively to grab the stones? Perhaps we could adjust the pink dot a bit to grab the stone, the pig, the corn and the sugar (but lose the hill defense).

Rooster:

player 1: Maquis ----- UP.
player 2: bpierfy ----- On Deck
player 3: nitroduckie -
player 4: GreyFox ---- Just Played

Pending/MIA/Alternate
player 5: penwa------ ???

 

[bpierfy]

I was playing and did not see the comments from bpierfy, so did not go for IW. My opinion is that since we do have (or more correctly, are going to have) copper, I don't think IW is that crucial.

No, you did the right thing IMO - My comments were based on my lack of knowledge of us knowing where copper was. I don't think you should go for iron right away unless you don't have copper or there is much jungle to be chopped.

Instead I go along with the wheel (we need it to connect the resources) and pottery for the cottages. Hope I did not screw up too badly on this.

Sounds good to me...

I think we should take the stone spot after copper site. It gives us our city in the east, and stone for wonders if we have the chance.

We have a lot of good territory out there but I have yet to master expansion without destroying the economy. Lately I've been leaning toward less cities and more research but that always hurts late game.

 

[bobrath]

lurker comment:

If you guys would be interested in another SG newb taking the 5th spot, I'd be happy to throw my hat in the ring...

 

[bpierfy]

Its ok by me - I'm sure it will be fine...

 

[Maquis]

@ bobrath: You're in. welcome! You'll slide into the #5 spot, and take your first turnset on the next round.

I got the save... will play it in a few hours. Hoping to get a few comments in the meantime.

I would be against moving our settler. For one, we're sitting on a hill right now. Also, moving 1W we would lose the food (corn) and also lose a forest (by settling on it) I am planning on settling in place.

I think we should also go for the stone. I am thinking that we could then go for Stonehege in Madrid? We're on a good size continent, and should have plenty cities to benefit the free Oblesk. Also, I like the idea of getting some GPP for a prophet (can then build BUD shrine to help commerce) I just don't know if it would be too late to start the wonder by the time we get another settler & stone hooked up. There's a chance we could miss it.... Would like to get a conesnsus on this...

 

[nitroduckie]

Hey guys, sorry about the somewhat vague post, I did it relatively quickly last night.

Greyfox--it was the worker that was chop rushed, I timed it so that the forest was not cleared until the archer was out.

The settler seems in a great spot to me, I wouldn't move him.
I would also suggest that we try to get another couple settlers relatively soon because there are a lot of great sites we wouldn't want the AI to grab.

As for research, I opted not to go for monotheism, but if we all wanted to, that's still another possibility. I like the idea of nabbing animal husbandry and then possibly horseback riding because it doesn't seem like iron working is necessary just yet (if we're lucky horse archers will help us vs. Praets).

Also glad that we now have a 5th player, hopefully that will make it easier on everyone (busy schedules and whatnot).

Sorry once again for not being more clear in my post (it was my first time ).

Edit--I think if we can get the stone quickly then it might be worth it to go for Stonehenge.

 

[bobrath]

I'll try to do my best. I don't have civ with me at work (stupid work rules), but from reading over the thread and seeing the screen shots, here's my discussion and New and Improved Dot Map(s):

Northside

I'd agree that blue dot is a great spot, I just wonder what's in the block fog areas just west. Nothing on the land that I can see from the vague outlines, but unless there's a unit nearby to explore that real fast, we're better of founding now. Plus after the first culture pop we'll have locked our west from exploration (and settlement)
Original orange dot is hollowed out, my suggestion is just W/SW of it. This moves the city off the two desert tiles to the east in exchange for a forest and some more ocean and still keeps it coastal. With a lighthouse this city will be a food monster and we can it something fierce. This city can wait a while.
I'm really intrigued about what's just north east of blue dot in the fog. Getting some exploration there might show us a couple great features or city spots.

Southside

I really want to know what's going on west and east of yellow dot. Might change placement of that city if there are water resources west or interesting geography east. Solid yellow was the suggested location previously and it looks fine. I put the hollow circle down as an alternative if we find water resources, it would also move the useless mountain tile out of the city radius while still blocking off the passage. I really like yellow dot as our third or fourth city.
I'd suggest moving Pink dot two east (from hollow to solid). It does move us far closer to alex, but we'd pick up stone, be on a river that connects to Madrid (omg!! that's one long river) which would mean we could produce Stonehenge in the capital. I am assuming that the river continues through that black fog just NW of pink dots borders.
Red dot is a filler that is also on the river, so would pick up the benefits of that and could help expand our borders. Red dot could be founded SE to pick up the fish, but we'd have to found a city on that lake (if it is a lake!) to hook it up. Not worth it in my opinion. If we do slide yellow dot NW then red can be slide one W and that would remove one mountain tile from the city radius.


Unless we can get a settler out asap and over to pink dot with an escort (and a worker), I think Stonehenge is a reach. Pink dot is still nice, but I think we'd get better short term security from yellow dot.

At this point, more then 4 cities might stretch our economy a bit tight so we need to be cautious about spamming settlers. We will need workers (and IW) to handle that beast of a jungle in the south. And roads to get the copper hooked up to all cities.

My suggestions:
1) exploration, clean up some of the patches of fog and expand our knowledge.
2) workers (and with them roads to hook our north and south cities up with the capital)
3) a bit more military, if only on BarbWatchTM but definitly if we get aggressive on settling, we'll need a presence to keep the AI from getting greedy.
4) IW more for the ability to chop jungle then the units (tho they aren't all that bad) and of course to see where it is as that might change up the dot maps a bit.

Anyway, hope that wasn't too much and thanks again for letting me jump in on this game. I'm already anxiously awaiting the foru of you ahead of me!

 

[bpierfy]

I think were all in agreement (which scares me):

We don't want to lose the corn and we get a defense bonus so I would settle as is. I think we should still go for the stone and stonehenge - we can use the stone for other wonders if we miss. It also protects us against JC encroaching directly at our capital.

I like getting AH to see if we have horses. How fast can we get a settler out? I'm at work and can't see the save, but do we have a chop handy - or can we whip? The other problem is not getting a settler out, but getting it there - defended and worker in place to build quarry which takes like 6 turns.

 

[bpierfy]

I cross posted so here are some more comments:

Are we going to stretch ourselves out too far by finding cities in the extreme south, east, and north? We'll have four very spread out cities. I've never tried having them spread out that far but as long as we don't get attack we should be ok. Even if we do get nailed, it will take them forever to get to our capital and we could regroup by then.

I say:

- North city first on hill; were already there, and need copper
- East city next (on the river is a great idea)
- South city last

If we get the stonghenge, the obelisks will help fill in some territory and hopefully we can fill the rest in after we recover financially.

 

[Maquis]

Inherited Turn: Look around, and I MM Madrid to use the farm, Madrid will now grow in 2 turns.

Turn 1: As discussed, I settle in place. Barcelona founded.


Turn 2: rax in Madrid. Looking at the build options, Stonehedge will only take 15 turns to finish... I decide it's worth it... we probably don't want to wait any longer, and it would be more than 15 turns to get a settler and hook up the stone anyways. Worker moving to forest closest to Madrid to chop, and cut down the build time even further.

Turn 3: Hmm... anyone want to go for a domination victory?

Turn 4: zzz.z..

Turn 5: AH comes in. Absolutly NO horses on the map anywhere. damn... I choose masonry next, allowing the quarry if/when we settle by the stone. Worker set to chop forest with spices.

Turn 6: zz.z

Turn 7: A forest has grown near Madrid. It's the one I *just* chopped two turns ago!! I have never seen that!

Turn 8: Worker finishes chop of spice tile.

Turn 9: Madrid has completed Stonehedge! You guys have asked for it! I provided! Barcelona also finished Archer --> Granary (I think we may want to switch this with a Worker when Barcelona grows to size 2 (borders should also expand soon now with Stonehedge)

Turn 10: Masonry in. Choose Priesthood, so we can continue to Monarchy. Start on road from Madrid -> Barcelona


Madrid is building a Granary, due in 3 turns. I was thinking of another settler, but wasn't sure. There is only one turn into the Granary so far, so next up can switch out if you want.

I did notice that France settled his second city grabbing the Bronze to the far east. Looks like he's coming our way... so maybe we do want to get that 3rd city going soon.

Hopefully not too bad. I was surprised I was able to rush and get Stonehedge that quick!



player 1: Maquis ----- Nursing a sore back from throwing SH up so quickly.
player 2: bpierfy ----- UP
player 3: nitroduckie - on deck
player 4: GreyFox ----
player 5: bobrath ----

 

[GreyFox]

First of all, a hearty welcome to bobrath!

Greyfox--it was the worker that was chop rushed, I timed it so that the forest was not cleared until the archer was out.

opps sorry, my bad . Anyway, it turns out well, plus I actually have to skip the settler's movement for 1 or 2 turns to wait for the northern warrior to get into position for escort.

Sorry once again for not being more clear in my post (it was my first time ).

Hey, don't worry about that, we are all SG noobs (although I must admit I was lurking in this forums since the day Civ4 was out), that's why this is called "Very Quick Noob SG".

Bobrath - Good job on the New and Improved Dot Map.
Agreed with the orange and the yellow dots. My original intention for the pink dot was one tile SW of your solid pink dot, but with the red dot in there, I think your proposed site might be better.

Either way, we badly need more exploration done.

My suggestions:
1) exploration, clean up some of the patches of fog and expand our knowledge.
2) workers (and with them roads to hook our north and south cities up with the capital)
3) a bit more military, if only on BarbWatchTM but definitly if we get aggressive on settling, we'll need a presence to keep the AI from getting greedy.
4) IW more for the ability to chop jungle then the units (tho they aren't all that bad) and of course to see where it is as that might change up the dot maps a bit.

Agree with these. Except that we need to add in the obvious settler to grab pink and yellow.

I keep forgeting if we are on a Pangea or continents map :crazyeyes:, but I think the blue-dot city might be a good palce to curn out one work-boat early to do coastal navigation.

Turn 2: rax in Madrid. Looking at the build options, Stonehedge will only take 15 turns to finish... I decide it's worth it... we probably don't want to wait any longer, and it would be more than 15 turns to get a settler and hook up the stone anyways. Worker moving to forest closest to Madrid to chop, and cut down the build time even further.

Sorry, I kept reminding myself while playing that I should note in the post the availability of Stonehedge when I start the barracks, but I think I missed it. But it turns out you did well to grab stonehedge!!!!

Gibbon must be for thinking a civ with 1 archer and 2 warriors to be the most powerful ...

Hopefully not too bad. I was surprised I was able to rush and get Stonehedge that quick!

Good job on stonehedge!!

I agree with the shot for masony and Priesthood. But perhaps sailing soon, to explore the coast.

 

[bpierfy]

This is my got it post, but I won't be playing tonight (eastern US) - because some idiot scheduled a meeting at work for 8am!! Oh wait, that was the CIO.

Anyway, GREAT job on the Stonehenge. If we manage to get the east city (I think should be our next priority), we will be able to control much land with an obelisk in each city to start.

My goals will be this - to get a settle (with an escort) to the eastern city spot. I don't have the dot map in front of me, but is our original pink (or whatever color) in the east still good? If so, I will settle there. If we can get the stone and a food resource - we're good.

I will also try to explore some more. Unfortuneatly I won't be able to get to this until after work but definitely tomorrow night!

I have no idea why we are most powerful - but the historians don't lie right?

 

[GreyFox]

Don't worry about playing tomorrow night, take your time. In fact, I was just thinking we played quite fast (5 turnsets in less than 3 days).

 

[bobrath]

Bobrath - Good job on the New and Improved Dot Map.
Agreed with the orange and the yellow dots. My original intention for the pink dot was one tile SW of your solid pink dot, but with the red dot in there, I think your proposed site might be better.

(Thanks)
Pink in its shown location will use the mountains to the east and south to help seal our borders as well, so unless being on the other side of the river for a defensive bonus is in order... I'd stick with that spot. Plus moving it to the SW brings mountains into the city radius and those are resourceless land tiles... OTOH, a move to the NW might be possible, but it has to deal with mountains there as well.

I'm ok with founding pink next, but only so we can grab land from the French. Stone has become a lesser priority (unless we want to try for pyramids). Yellow will give us a second copper resource, ivory for war elephants (since we lack horses... conquistadors are out for now), and locks off our south. So land grab or secure south? Ideally both but it will be up to the next one or two folks to decide what they want to do. As soon as we can escort a settler... we need to get going.

I keep forgeting if we are on a Pangea or continents map :crazyeyes:, but I think the blue-dot city might be a good palce to curn out one work-boat early to do coastal navigation.

Actually orange would be a much better site for turning out workboats. Remember that we're expansive which when coupled with a food tastic city like orange... lots and lots of fun. Blue will have growth problems until we get IW to handle that jungle. Plus short term... yellow would be on the same coast and could get a work boat out if it is real necessary...

I like the Priesthood research next as that will open the Oracle to us. I don't see any marble on the map, but we could make a run at it for the free tech. I see this more from the free GP points and denying the other civs the tech boost, then for the free tech for us.

We don't need granarys right now. We're expansive so we'll be ok on growth. Might be better to point those hammers into expansion (workers/settlers/escorts).

 

[Maquis]

I apologize if my turnlog was a bit short... it just didn't seem like much was going on.

One thing I should mention, Madrid is getting close to its happiness limit. It can only grow once more. It may be time to get out the soon!

It probably was on my part to put both cities on a Granary. my intention in Barcelona was to switch it out as soon as it grows (I think 2-3 turns left) At that time, it may be best to get another worker going there? Might even want to chop it with worker #1.

We need to get pink dot secured. I like yellow dot as well, but we know where France is, and I think he's got coast on the east, so he HAS to come our way. Even with Stonehege built, I think the stone would be useful for any future wonders. With all those hills, pink dot can get some awesome hammer production. I can't remember if it has any flood plains for food, but the pigie will help there...

If we wanted to go for Pyramids, this may be the place to build it. This would also get some Engineer GPP going (I love to use these for rushing wonders, etc) also, it may our military front if we end up at war with France (or Rome).

 

[bpierfy]

Can't wait till I get home from work to play!!

I will try to settle pink dot and get pigs and stone. I definitely will escort the settler though, and send another unit right on its tails in case we "box in" france too much.

That is one of the biggest AI changes that I struggle with. I could be +4 for religion and +6 overall and still get attacked because of being too close or an aggressive civ. Speaking of that, my most recent game on noble - I happened to be next to Monty, Napolean, and Toku - what the heck? I didn't exactly crunch napolean into a corner and he still attacked me at like +4. Luckily I was ready for him

 

[bpierfy]

Oh, and one more thing - you all don't mind if I change my user name do you? Do I need to create a new account or can I change the name on my current account?

I didn't think I would be camping (in the fullest sense of the word) in these forums night and day, and so just used my name to create a login. Its just so stupid....

 

[GreyFox]

Actually orange would be a much better site for turning out workboats. Remember that we're expansive which when coupled with a food tastic city like orange... lots and lots of fun. Blue will have growth problems until we get IW to handle that jungle. Plus short term... yellow would be on the same coast and could get a work boat out if it is real necessary...

Agree on orange being a prime site. But, the work boat I am suggesting is for early navigation purposes, and I doubt we are going to settle orange any time soon (at least not for another 20 turns). That's why I suggested Barcelona to churn out a work boat.

I will try to settle pink dot and get pigs and stone. I definitely will escort the settler though, and send another unit right on its tails in case we "box in" france too much.

I think the warrior currently near the french territory could be useful to secure the pink dot first, but you do need one more warrior/archer to escort the settler. I would suggest moving the escort first, since settler has 2 movement point and arc/war has only 1.

Oh, and one more thing - you all don't mind if I change my user name do you? Do I need to create a new account or can I change the name on my current account?

Well, you will have to provide us your scocial security numbers, driving licence, etc to serve as authentication so that we know the "new" alias is indeed you and not some Great Pretender ...

I apologize if my turnlog was a bit short... it just didn't seem like much was going on.

One thing I should mention, Madrid is getting close to its happiness limit. It can only grow once more. It may be time to get out the soon!

It probably was on my part to put both cities on a Granary. my intention in Barcelona was to switch it out as soon as it grows (I think 2-3 turns left) At that time, it may be best to get another worker going there? Might even want to chop it with worker #1.

I thought the granaries were a decent idea. i myself have always been reluctant to whip a city without a granary (except ofcourse if it is the granary I am whipping ).

Is there any consequences with whipping the capital? I was reading one of Sirian's SG and some how I got this idea that whipping the capital is not such a good idea, though I must admit I don't know why.

 

[bpierfy]

Goals:

- Found Pink Dot to get stone and block french - archer escort
- Get a second archer to pink dot
- Start oracle
- Build Worker

IT:

I keep Barcelona on Granary, but it will grow this turn. I will switch it to a worker after it grows and take it from there.

I start an archer in Madrid so that it can get a head start on the settle that will be whipped.

I'll finish the granary whenever I need a few turns to grow.

Turn 1 (1640BC):

Barb Warrior spotted by south exploring unit.

I switch Barcelona to worker, because this city will be junk until it expands (7 turns) and we work the corn. Its 10 turns for a worker, but there doesn't seem to be a better choice. We could whip the worker when it gets closer because we'll regain it fast with corn.

Explore...

Turn 2 (1600BC):

JC scout shows up close to capital - I spit on him...

And... We find JC's lands.

So the question is does that choke point area lead to JC? Or does it end at water? Need to find that out somehow - maybe a workboat.

I just read GreyFox's post and didn't think about the warrior - he may still come around in time though.

Turn 3 (1560BC):

Wolves attack warrior in north, we win - one turn to heal.

Madrid produces Archer which I will send to pink dot - leave unpromoted for now.
What to produce next in Madrid! I think I'll finish the granary (2 turns) and then whip a settler. I guess we'll find out if the capital should be whipped!!

Turn 4 (1520BC):

Priesthood in -> Go for sailing, because everything else seems to expensive for the immediate benefit and we are playing continents. That means we can go all the way around (barring culture) the land mass and see where things are.

I notice that the worker is autobuilding a road to Barcelona. I've read that this is bad SG etiquette, but I'll the team decide. I leave it go for now, because after the whip, it won't need much to work (although I'd LOVE to put a cottage up on those floodplains $$$).

Turn 5 (1480BC):

Barb warrior attacks our warrior in south, we win and I promote to medic. Two turns to heal.

Nothing else of interest.

Turn 6 (1440BC):

Well, I decide to :whip: in Madrid because I've heard its better to whip more pop if possible.

We have corn and a granary so it will grow back very quickly.

Turn 7 (1400BC):

Settler built in Madrid, and I have no clue what to build. Other than archers, we could get a temple or a monastary, but we aren't going to really take advantage of that. I start the oracle, but we have few hammers. I may stop the worker doing roads and chop two forests outside the city radius (if I don't think we'll need for another city). Feel free to veto this if things change. We really need another worker, but at size three, I want Madrid to grow first.

I'm not sure whether its a good idea to whip a size two city for a worker, but I don't mind being scolded. Barcelona's borders expand next turn and we can work the corn faster and get mad foodage. The comes to life.

Archer/Settler pair from JC spotted in south - I'm sure we'll beat them if they have any ideas...

Turn 8 (1360BC):

Both cities borders expand and a forest grows two south of Barc...

Stone found in NE next an Oasis, possible city up there by river?

Another JC city but not from earlier settler pair.

Barc reverts back to granary - with corn there, I decide to let it finish. Then I suggest a workboat or galley (if we have sailing by then) to explore the coast.

Turn 9 (1320BC):

I don't know if anyone had mentioned this before, but it looks like another continent is nearby for us to "explore"...

Turn 10 (1280BC):

Settler is close to pink dot, and I suggest founding it as planned - even with floodplains in the north. First of all, it is going to have mad production. If moved north it loses hills and gains mountains. Second, We may be able to get a two-resource city in the north with that FP.

Explorers are well, still exploring. Feel free to move one of the warriors to the new city.

Sorry about leaving the settler open with the archer to next to it, but the only danger would be a 2 move unit and I doubt we'd see those. Next turn it will meet the archer.

I would let the Madrid worker finish chop and see how close that brings us to oracle. The northern worker is on corn and I would let Barc finish granary then build boat.

End:

Hopefully I didn't do to bad, settler almost there, we have another worker as well. The whipping unhappy will be gone before we would want to whip again anyway so i don't think that hurt.

Sailing due in 1 and then I have no clue - Iron maybe for an early strike?

One more note - I am going to try to make my future posts less wordy and clearer on formatting. I'm new at this and spending most of my time on playing the turns... Have any of you used auto logger?

player 1: Maquis ----- Recovered from SH, gives nitro advil for oracle building
player 2: bpierfy ----- Played...
player 3: nitroduckie - UP NOW oh might pink-dot-oracle-builder...
player 4: GreyFox ---- Probably chomping at the bit while on deck (only wonder builders should take medicine)
player 5: bobrath ---- Welcome!


And the save:

View attachment 113172

 

[GreyFox]

Nice set of turns, bpierfy.

JC scout shows up close to capital - I spit on him...

He offered you salad and you spit on him ?? ..

I just read GreyFox's post and didn't think about the warrior - he may still come around in time though.

No problem, aslong as you have an escort, you don't need the warrior to secure the pink dot. When I was moving the 1st settler to blue-dot, we had only 1 archer protecting Madrid, and two arriors wandering. I didn't want to wait for another unit to be built, so I move the northern warrior to blue dot, and meet the settler just on the same turn

I'm not sure whether its a good idea to whip a size two city for a worker, but I don't mind being scolded.

Can you whipped a size 2 city? I thought the minimum was 3.

One more note - I am going to try to make my future posts less wordy and clearer on formatting. I'm new at this and spending most of my time on playing the turns... Have any of you used auto logger?

I have wanted to try and use the autolog or the eventlog, but have not gotten around to downloading it yet. I think a combination of player's comment and log from the logger is the best (with screenies, of-course! ).

I don't know if anyone had mentioned this before, but it looks like another continent is nearby for us to "explore"...

I doubt its a continent, most likely just a small island. But it does provide our work boat or galley the needed coastline to explore more of the world. I have not noticed it before.

player 1: Maquis ----- Recovered from SH, gives nitro advil for oracle building
player 2: bpierfy ----- Played...
player 3: nitroduckie - UP NOW oh might pink-dot-oracle-builder...
player 4: GreyFox ---- Probably chomping at the bit while on deck (only wonder builders should take medicine)
player 5: bobrath ---- Welcome!

All in all, I think we are doing very well. One thing I am finding poeculiar is we have only met 2 civs. Are we on a small or standard map? ...oh, well, the other civs might be in the other continents.