Might be easier to just train the elephant.
[NFP] Vietnam Discussion Thread
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anonxanemone
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An elephant never forgets but an elephant with a crossbow never forgives!
You have sided against Vietnam in battle, and this we do not forgive
or forget.
Myomoto
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Might be easier to just train the elephant.
Besides, imagine the size and power of an elephant-size crossbow.
Pfeffersack
Deity
@ Vietnams potential defense boni
Attrition or Walls...my biggest with issue with all of these great "turtling" civs in Civ6 is that they don't really benefit from their "unique" leaning, because warfare is so static anyway (take e.g. Celts: A potential 3rd source of ranged counter fire - assuming you built an encampment in the city as well- is of limited usefulness, if the AI's usally can't even penetrate city walls alone). So even if for Vietnam the good defense is achieved by enemies HPs dwindling away each turn - it just wouldn't matter a lot gameplaywise, even if it is mor realistic.
Attrition or Walls...my biggest with issue with all of these great "turtling" civs in Civ6 is that they don't really benefit from their "unique" leaning, because warfare is so static anyway (take e.g. Celts: A potential 3rd source of ranged counter fire - assuming you built an encampment in the city as well- is of limited usefulness, if the AI's usally can't even penetrate city walls alone). So even if for Vietnam the good defense is achieved by enemies HPs dwindling away each turn - it just wouldn't matter a lot gameplaywise, even if it is mor realistic.
anonxanemone
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Et voila! Domrey!
Myomoto
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I feel like those elephants could AT LEAST carry another crossbow in their trunk. Or even better, mount a crossbow on each of their tusks, with a trunk operated firing mechanism.
anonxanemone
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Are there any... um... illustrators, artists, or photoshoppers among us?
Navelgazer
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So predictably, most of my thoughts have already been expressed here, but here goes:
1. Not that it was in any way a surprise, but still cool to see Vietnam in here.
2. I'm always happy to see more women leaders in the mix. I get why folks more immersed in Vietnamese history would be disappointed by a leader who they don't feel really rrepresents that history, and a mythical one at that. Still, I'm happy.
3. The district placement mechanic seems like a really debilitating setback, and I'm curious what can possibly balance that out. Bonuses on top of still getting the yeilds could be interesting to play around with, though.
4. An encampment replacement is going to have to work really hard to interest me.
5. If the UU is, in fact, a double-firing crossbowman replacement, that would be huge.
6. Really, really curious to see where the culture-lean is supposedly coming from in this design.
From what we've got, I can picture this being a potentially powerful mid-game domination civ, especially since the district placement malus might make it a lot more preferable to take already-developed cities rather than building them oneself. That doesn't feel particularly flavorful for Vietnam, to me, nor is it the way I tend to play, but it's there. All of the NFP civs so far have been, no matter what else you think of them, unique in a pretty game-changing way. Maya and Babylon change the way you play the science game. Ethiopia makes faith a focus like no other civ does. Gran Colombia is Domination on steroids. Byzantium is like a mix of Ethiopia and GC for faith and power. And Gaul throws everything you knew about culture, production, and district placement up in the air.
So I expect something big here for Vietnam, but for the life of me I can't picture it yet.
1. Not that it was in any way a surprise, but still cool to see Vietnam in here.
2. I'm always happy to see more women leaders in the mix. I get why folks more immersed in Vietnamese history would be disappointed by a leader who they don't feel really rrepresents that history, and a mythical one at that. Still, I'm happy.
3. The district placement mechanic seems like a really debilitating setback, and I'm curious what can possibly balance that out. Bonuses on top of still getting the yeilds could be interesting to play around with, though.
4. An encampment replacement is going to have to work really hard to interest me.
5. If the UU is, in fact, a double-firing crossbowman replacement, that would be huge.
6. Really, really curious to see where the culture-lean is supposedly coming from in this design.
From what we've got, I can picture this being a potentially powerful mid-game domination civ, especially since the district placement malus might make it a lot more preferable to take already-developed cities rather than building them oneself. That doesn't feel particularly flavorful for Vietnam, to me, nor is it the way I tend to play, but it's there. All of the NFP civs so far have been, no matter what else you think of them, unique in a pretty game-changing way. Maya and Babylon change the way you play the science game. Ethiopia makes faith a focus like no other civ does. Gran Colombia is Domination on steroids. Byzantium is like a mix of Ethiopia and GC for faith and power. And Gaul throws everything you knew about culture, production, and district placement up in the air.
So I expect something big here for Vietnam, but for the life of me I can't picture it yet.
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
Instant S-Tier.
I was thinking that too, but I can't really see where the elephant fits on the tree. As far as I can tell, there's no other unit greyed out in the production queues, and I don't think there's any other "Standard" units that seem to be missing either.
I mean, it's still possible - Lady Trieu is mentioned a lot in riding elephants, so I wouldn't be shocked to see then want to reference that in some ways. But given the state of the game where those screens are from, it seems likely that they're all the same thing.
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
Crossbowman replacement that is an elephant unique to Lady Trieu. All works out. Maybe. Somewhat.
Myomoto
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Seems a little unlikely that a defensive turtling civ (their icon is even a turtle!) Would have two unique units.
Now... how would you go about training a turtle to fire a crossbow?
Pfeffersack
Deity
Hmm, doesn't the Khmers Domrey make a "ranged Elephant UU" rather unlikely? I'm aware that the Domrey is technically a siege unit, but two geographically close civs with (seen from the outer appearence) so similar UUs?
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
Vietcong.Seems a little unlikely that a defensive turtling civ (their icon is even a turtle!) Would have two unique units.
Now... how would you go about training a turtle to fire a crossbow?
anonxanemone
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Just spitballing here but is a concept for mounting units being introduced here? Combine with any of the non-cavalry units for a buff in combat strength maybe?
Myomoto
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Mounts already exist, kind of. The Supply Convoy is basically a 'mount'. So sure, it could potentially be a unique support unit as well.
AntSou
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That's the main thing that led me to consider there might be two unique units. Two ranged elephant UU from the same region seems a bit odd.
I don't think so. You can see here that the elephant is fortified and has a promotion. You can tell that's the same elephant because of the blurred yellow/red tint.
Edit: @Myomoto At 2:59 the city of Nalanda has a Great General. At 3:54 there's another two.
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