I thought I fixed the date issues on marathon, but might have edited a wrong version. I'm currently "on hold" from modding as I'm really really really busy in RL. (going to be a father, just got married, got a new job, applied for family reunification with my thai wife, trying to teach her danish, etc etc) Busy month I tell ya
Propably the first time in 25 years I havent played a single computergame for more than 30 days. Strange feeling it is
The current version also have another known bug. Rubber is not planted on the map on init. It can still be "grown" in plantations though. At a time when I have a couple of hours, I'll fix the issues and upload a "stable" version.
and second - the game plays great... I am playing on Epic Warmonger 18 civs - higlands map, and it's been going great, I am around infantry right now... 16 civs still alive, and turns are "only" around one and a half minutes, which is great for this map size and ~300-400 cities on the map.
Rubber actually appears (not sure when right now, but I have got it, even in a city)...
some other issues that I can see is that many/most of the new future techs have either no description in civilopedia, or nothing to build (not there yet, but will have to see), and some others like one corporation and some other new buildings have "unintelligible" titles as in "txt_xyx_..." but that is just a few items at the end... not a bother.
Right now I got to the point where it seems that my gfx card with 320MB of RAM is running out of RAM, and causing a crash ... I am moving gfx quality down one notch to medium and hopefully that will help... but other than that, everything works great.
One gameplay point though - the late railroads and roads have really low movement ability so on such huge maps it takes forever to move from one side to the next... but I can live with that... still it would be nice if the movement costs were at least reduced to 2x or even better 3x the "move points" with highways.
in any case - thanks for the great mod, and have fun in real life
edit: and one more small detail - not sure if this was meant to be the case, but some sciences say that they "enable" building Hamlets straight away, and Villages straight too... this does not seem to work... so not sure if this is intended or not, but as it is even after I discovered those techs, I can only plop down a Cottage which grows as at the beginning... which does not distract from the game, but just to point it out.
OK - I got to 1560, to the modern era, tech which gives the Hoover Dam, and crash. The crash itself is a hard one - requires a reboot, so I guess I am hitting hard memory limits somewhere.
It is either related to the lack of memory on my gfx card, which is only 320MB, or the general fact that I am playing this on Win XP including 3 GB switch... but this size and number of units may be too much for the system to take.
One way or another I will play my next game on large size, highlands as usual with 15 civs... to see how far that goes. In any case, despite of not being able to finish - it was a great game, and this is a lovely mod.
In my first play through. I must say it is nice because as much as I like Rise of Mankind, it seems the AI cheats like a demon!
About the only thing I want to ask is about unhealth. Even being careful not to go to crazy w/many of the buildings which cause unhealth, almost all of my cities are unhealthy and there are few buildings to help like other mods have.
This has also caused global warming during the early game where I'm just starting to build bombards and I've lost 2 squares to global warming. I doubt stinky Renaissance cities cause global warming! =0
However besides those two issues, I like this mod. As much as I love Realism Invictus, MAF errors make that sort of hard to play. So this mod is a very good 'lower power' version which so far has been very enjoyable.
@ OneFoot, I havent playtested/balanced industrial/modern era enough yet. The roads might need some tweaking, but might do it directly on the units instead. I did a complete rework with the movement points (scouts start with 5 MP and warriors with 3 MP, later units, especially motorized should have around 10 MP. With modern roads (1 MP=1 Tile) I think putting them up to x2 would be to much (20 moves in one turn with a tank is alot)
I'm glad that rubber did appear. I have fixed it so it will appear a bit more often as there was a problem on some mapscripts it wouldnt show up. Should be fixed 100% in next version.
Regarding the transhuman/future era. Its a huge project in itself, and I'm not going to mess with it untill everything else is finished. For now, consider it a "Future Tech, but with individual names" advancement. I tried to put the different spaceship parts at different techs, so there should still be a goal in researching the techs. Since very few games actually gets to future era, I think for now its a acceptable solution
I've made quite a few corporations and guilds but in order for the game to work with all of these (and without the WoC module) there had to be one extra corp in the gamefontfiles.
I havent made up yet what it should be, but I once made a AIM (arms industry manufacturers) corporation that was quite different from the others as it would supply with proto type weapons in modern era. I might redo it, but other ideas I had was Auto industry and Entertainment Industry (Universal Studios like)
Its strange that you cant build hamlets and villages. the code should be in order, but i cant remember if I fixed it after the last upload. will test it too.
Regarding all the TxtKey_Dummy : Every time any stuff is modded into civ4, it not only requires reload of the game, but also require RESTART of the game in progress. The Dummies is a workaround for this. Since I already added the units/buildings/promotions (dummies) to the game, I can continue a game in progress, while still adding new stuff. It makes it easier to add/balance new units/buildings/promotions, or if I suddenly get a new idea I dont have to start from 10.000 BC again (and again, and again etc etc).
Its strange with the crash. My system is VERY lowtech (128MB Graphics and 1.5GB ram) but still runs fine on Large+ maps (but usually I test with Normal Speed. Might be more resource heavy with Epic). Need to do some testing around hoover dam era to see if its a bug.
@ arkham
Iirc I didnt change the AI cheating compared to Vanilla civ, so it should be same same as the original (which does cheat alot on stronger difficulty levels).
About the unhealth. I made it like that on purpose. In vanilla or RoM I never had any problems with unhealth. IMHO all larger cities are unhealthy (to a certain degree) but especially in earlier eras it was a huge problem, that evolved into Aquaducts, Sewage systems, Health control, recycling stations, Lead free gasolin, low co2 emissioning filters, clean air campaignes etc etc etc. And yet many cities are still VERY unhealthy in the year 2011.
Another way to look at it is purely gameplay : While unhappiness is a hard border for growth, unhealthiness is a soft border, controlling that early cities not grow "out of control".
But i havent tweaked the Global Warming yet. It is now on my todo list
Started a game in the weekend, and by 1200 AD especially 1 civ was way way way beyond all others. It had 3 religions and buthers guild.
The buthers Guild was very overpowered and it gave each city +23 food! It has been halved.
Also the Religion +1 gold per city can unbalance games, so instead of gold a Holy City will gain +1 Culture instead.
Changed initial free citybuilding from Palace to Elder Council.
Changed Req for Palace to Masonry.
Changed GameSpeeds :
Normal Warmonger to Normal
Normal Empire to Normal +
Epic Warmonger to Epic
Epic Empire to Epic - (x3/4 instead of x2)
Holy Wonder give +1 Culture instead of +1 Gold per city with religion.
Butchers Guild give +0.5 food instead of +1 food per resource.
Increased Harbour cost from 80 to 150.
Changed Forbidden Palace req to Code of Laws
Fixed Marathon Speed Bug. (problem was the second step, that wasnth divideable with 12. Thought I fixed it a dusin times before, but I always seem to forget)
I like the idea of changing the holy city per city bonus. This will help even the playing field for all civs to compete economically on the map while allowing for good culture production for those who focus on it. Are there changes that might need to be made to the AI so that it doesn't think founding a religion will boost its economy still.
Is it possible to change it to a fraction of a culture point though (say .2 or somesuch)? Depending on the map size this might allow very quick culture wins if a civ founded 3 religions in 3 cities and got the holy cities early and got good spread on their religion. Perhaps adjust the % given by cathedrals a slight bit to compensate. I will play test it this weekend and see how quick I can get a culture win with these changes. I see in the XML that there is a flavor religion, not sure how that is weighted in the DLL though.
How customizable is the vassalage system? One thing I don't like about Civ IV is there doesn't seem to be a good mechanism for dealing with cities you've conquered.
For example I have a island city I founded next to another island which was colonized by a nearby Civ. I'm at war with them (and their overlord since they are a vassal). However I have no way to directly bargain with them to ask them to break away from their current overlord and have them become mine even though I have captured the two island cities and then later I've capture 3 of their major cities (including their capital) leaving them only two minor cities left.
Additionally I conquered an entire civilization on the same continent as my own and in many games I would like the option of creating a vassal out of those conquered cities even if I've totally wiped them out. So far in this mod captured cities haven't been a problem but often times warmongering leaves you with a Civ of a size which drags down your economy.
@ OneFoot, I havent playtested/balanced About the unhealth. I made it like that on purpose. In vanilla or RoM I never had any problems with unhealth. IMHO all larger cities are unhealthy (to a certain degree) but especially in earlier eras it was a huge problem, that evolved into Aquaducts, Sewage systems, Health control, recycling stations, Lead free gasolin, low co2 emissioning filters, clean air campaignes etc etc etc. And yet many cities are still VERY unhealthy in the year 2011.
Another way to look at it is purely gameplay : While unhappiness is a hard border for growth, unhealthiness is a soft border, controlling that early cities not grow "out of control".
I think that's admirably expressed. Much as I realize Civ4's a strategy game and *not* a simulation, have you ever considered giving a few ancient or medieval civs good benefits to health for the way they dealt with these matters? The Doric Greeks, for instance, had a guild that came around door to door once a day and collected human excrement, for disposal outside the city. The Japanese were extremely concerned about personal hygiene at a time when Europeans didn't understand the concept. Just a thought.
Okay it's about 2015 in my first game and here is my impression:
* First off: Fix the global warming. The planet is becoming uninhabitable. Plus is there any way to tier the warming? Instead of EVERY terrain into dessert how about grasslands to plains, plains to desert or tundra if a script could be created to figure out which one based on surrounding tiles.
* Inflation is nuts. I have almost every city producing either wealth or trade and I can barely keep up at 10% culture, 10% espionage and only 30% research. I could understand keeping a huge military could be an issue (and should) but the inflation is really too much
* How about a warning in the Civlopedia for things like legalized gambling to let us know you haven't put anything in it yet so you don't bother researching it.
* Some of your more sci-fi techs are available before others which should come first I think.
* I'm playing as Germany and when I got tank tech, I never got a change to build early tanks, went straight to panzer. Plus if I may, I really suggest if you are going to have early tank, then you also have infantry go to APC and then to IFV to represent how we had for the longest time something better than trucks but less than a Bradley or Stryker.
* The AI is dumb w/canons. While I can see the use of going after a stack for collateral damage, I had a battle where about 10 canons attacked my city directly instead of taking down the walls. Then about 15 cavalry came in and promptly died or had to withdraw because the AI didn't seem to realize I have modern armor and mech infantry!
* You % cost per unit needs to be tweaked. If possible it should cost more per unit to BUILD but not as much to upgrade. If you're not paying attention it'll gost some serious gold to upgrade an longbowman and as mentioned previously, deleting them doesn't give much of a reward back.
These gripes aside, I must say I'm amazed at how stable this game is. I've gone into the Worldbuilder to manually tier step global warming and it never crashed. The turns are quick and the play is good...if the AI was a bit smarter but that's always a Civ issue, right?
As I had mentioned in my first post, since you want to have pre-modern cities to be generally a cesspool, global warming was to the point where by the 1900, the game was changing a tile every 2-3 turns...this on a small map.
As I had mentioned in my first post, since you want to have pre-modern cities to be generally a cesspool, global warming was to the point where by the 1900, the game was changing a tile every 2-3 turns...this on a small map.
I believe VIP has it set to 20, i hate it in my mod, and i set it to 0, so just set it to a number that you want between the two, its in GlobalDefines.
I believe VIP has it set to 20, i hate it in my mod, and i set it to 0, so just set it to a number that you want between the two, its in GlobalDefines.
I have no problem with global warming but it shouldn't start in the 1800's.
Plus, not to get too technical but it isn't global warming as much as it is climate change with warming being the main element. Climatologist point out that many areas will get colder. Where I live is expected to get wetter and perhaps colder. Not sure about the colder but we've already seen signs of the wetter. =/
Anyway, it would be nice if the script would not just plunk deserts around but perhaps make certain areas marsh/swamps or perhaps tundra.
I made an AI autoplay on Epic yesterday, running 2000 turns while I slept. The setup was Noble difficulty, Large+ (15 civ) Archipelago (snaky continents, low sealevel, rocky climate). The max memory used was 696MB, so it should be able to run on all machines without crashes of MAFs.
The result was quite positive, though its difficult to say how good, as a Human Player would always make a big impact on the game.
Ramesses II won a cultural Victory, but Hammurabi was superpower #1. In one harbour he had a fleet of 35 destroyers, 25 transports loaded with marines, snipers, cavalry, infantry, paratroopers, tanks and helicopters and 5 subs fueled with missiles. The later he was very fond off. Just 4 clicks away there was another fleet with carriers and more transports, destroyers etc plus a couple of strategic bombers. He had in total more than 1000 units! (though he had somehow bankrupted himself by overexpansion and military budgets so quite a few units were at least 1 generation old. He even kept a Frigate around.
The overall scores were quite even, ranging from 1000-2000 points with Ramesses 3185 and Hammurabi (with all his vassals, units and cities) going at 5204.
The religions was also evenly spread, though Buddhism seemed to be #1. The culture gained from the change didnt affect the outcome though. It was Germany that had founded it, but it appears that him and Ramesses were fighting a cultural war, as he had 55% assigned on culture.
The biggest letdown was the huge amount of global warming. Almost all cities were affected by it, and drastic meassures has to be taken. I am going to reintroduce Buildings granting Health by Resources again (granary, harbour, grocery etc) as all cities were sick. It also affected the general size of the cities which were around the 20'ish. My guess is they would be at least 30-40 without the polution and deserts generated by GW. I do see very clearly now what a lot of people has been trying to tell my for a long time.....
From the look of the spawned Resources and the current (2080AD) improvements, it looks like the AI has used the different improvemens wisely over the years, ending with a lot of factories and cities, but also some forests are left for lumbermills. Maybe a few more farms if the pollution rate wasnt so high.
All the Guilds were founded between 1150-1450 AD (except for butchers guild at 1572 AD) and allmost all of the corporations too (except for Cereal Mills and MacD). No complains there. Also all the wonders were built.
The techlevel was around coldwar/modern so a little bit slow, but I changed a few modifiers before, so smaller nations could be a bit more competitive, and that might have slowed the overall progress. Again with a Human Player involved, this might change alot.
The inflation seemed to have killed the economy of the larger empires, so thats another important tweak.
Although not being finished with the modern navy vessels, I do believe the submarine should be nerfed a bit. all civs have tons of them. Its also time for adding my Silent Hunter module (subs attack transports first, but destroyers defend against subs first). The sniper also seems very popular, while anti tanks are non existing. I also need to add a few more different tanks, and other motorized units.
Of the 3 cities that won the Cultural Victory (Egypt) none of them had a founding religion, so I guess the +1 Culture instead of +1 Gold are not going to unbalance the game, and judging from the amount of the last city to hit Legendary Culture it hit it around 2020-2030 AD, which is IMO a fair win.
STEP 1 : Get more health (and thereby less Global Warming).
Will try to maybe add a new GW terrain : Wasteland, so its not deserts that spawns but simply a general uninhabitable terrain type.
STEP 2 : Adjust Inflation
After adding a lot more turns to the game, I did adjust inflation. But definately not enough.
STEP 3 : Fix German Panzer? path.
STEP 4 : Upload v. 80
@ Arkham : I belive that I set the minimum amount posible for upgrade which is 1 gold per hammer. Will double check to make sure.
Which ones? Shouldnt be a big problem switching them around. I havent really looked at the future techs yet, but if someone is obviously placed wrong I dont mind changing them now.
Just a couple of pics :
Spoiler:
3rd World War in 1952:
scanning through the history log, this seemed to be the biggest war, but the 3rd of the "big ones"
Operational Taskforce :
Codename : (p) NIMBY (please! not in my backyard!!!)
(each of the 25 transports had 4 units on, which means that if this little baby was going to war, someone would have 100 units dropped on 1 tile.)
EDIT : A quick calculation would give +20 extra health from resources, which I believe should be enough for now.
Since I haven't had a chance to /moan/complain/beg on this forum, let me put forth some ideas.
A big military is a HUGE expense. I was in the Army for 17 years and did two years as a logistic guy in a mech engineer unit. The cost of that one battalion's maintenance for just the vehicles was huge! As much fun as having lots of units is, it isn't realistic. If anything, having a huge military should be a much bigger drag on the economy than inflation because money goes into a military but not much wealth is ever generated from it.
So what do I suggest?
First off, I believe that there needs to be a better way for the AI to upgrade units. Period. It should be a lot cheaper and more to the AI and Human player's interest to upgrade rather than build.
Secondly: I'm not a HTML/script guy but I really, really, really believe that there needs to be some sort of "National Guard" tech/nat'l wonder or some script which allows a unit to go 'inactive' where it uses minimal gold for maintenance. This unit would not do anything until reactivated. To reactivate it, would require a gold cost which would mean that running a deficit or not keeping a gold reserve would be a bad move.
This way you wouldn't have to junk all your stuff after a war. Another idea is that units could be used to help defray the cost of a unit being built. So you could 'destroy' the rifleman and it would help build the infantry being built in the same city. While one would lose promotions, it would be a cheaper way to build. So you can either have a new modern unit w/no promotions for cheaper or upgrade an older unit for more gold.
Another idea is for early game to where hiring temporary mercenaries (like in the Fall From Heaven mod) is a viable strategy. Historically standing armies were uncommon and most wars were short and fought with mercenaries. Also it would be nice if you could have some sort of loan system like in Europa Universalis where you could take a loan to pay for a war but nasty things would happen to your economy if you couldn't pay it back.
Additionally, I wish that more Civ IV mods would use a concept from the old Rise & Rule mod back in Civ III. Prior to industrial ships, there should be a chance a ship is captured instead of destroyed. This ship could either be converted into a new ship for the capturing navy (w/no promotions) for a fee or the ship is converted into a "prize" ship. Pirates, of course, would have a good chance of only creating prize ships. These ships only function would be to scrapped for a hammer/gold bonus. Historically, the amount of money 'legalized' piracy during war generated was immense so there should be a 'letters of marque' promotion which allows for a greater chance of prize capture.
I also think that explorers need to be able to be upgraded to something like the military police unit many mods have. Then they could at least be used to help garrison cities.
I must say I'm not really sure about the need for certain units. Things like trench infantry, machine gun units or SAM infantry. I think most of those could be deleted in favor of promotions available after certain techs. I mean what really is the difference between infantry, trench infantry and machine gun units? All armies had machine guns rapidly. I think it would be better if a unit had police/civil affairs promotion which would boost it's defense but would lessen its attack factor.
I'm thinking the infantry line should go. Rifleman: 1812-ACW era infantry Infantry: WW I to early WW II infantry. Motorized Infantry: WW II to modern times. Mostly represents units in trucks or lightly armored APC's like the M113 or BTR's. Light Infantry: Since mech units are expensive and maybe fuel is scarce, a Light infantry could be created which wouldn't have the range of the above but would be cheaper. Plus I think there needs to be a serious limit to what could be airlifted. (Which should be it's own tech - the US airlift ability is probably one of the most powerful weapons in our arsenal: power projection) So only light infantry could be moved that way. Mechanized Infantry: This would represent IFV like the Bradley and BMPs.
Going back to the concept of airlift, I would think only light infantry, marines and paratroopers could be airlifted.
For tanks, if needed I think you'd go like this: Primitive Tank: WW I Early Tank: WW II - Sherman & Panthers Tank: Cold War - tanks like the M-60 & T-72 Modern Tank: M1A2, Leopard and Merkava. Light Tank: One part cheaper tank and one part a armored unit which could be airlifted. Available to be airlifted with a possible airlift command tech. Otherwise available along side Tank as a cheaper alternative. Also should have the amphibious promotion available to it.
I think both the primitive and early tanks should be powerful but remember not massively so. The Tank should be nasty because most of the world still has these models in their inventory although most are being upgraded to match the modern tanks.
In the place of SAMs I think you should have: AA Artillery: WW I & II SAM Battery: Cold War and modern. The whole idea of the 'mobile SAM' is stupid because it's not like SAM infantry run around on foot. If anything you could have the Cold War SAM unit be a ZSU-23-4 (if you can find a model for it) and then a missile unit for the more modern and nastier version.
Also some mods have a promotion for airplanes that make them torpedo bombers: that would be a nice addition.
If you could 'borrow' the pandemic code from Realism Invictus, you could still model the general unhealthiness of the earlier times in history without having to muck around with the global warming / health system. I like that system as it stops the inflation of constantly rising population. Being as this mod gives one hammer per tile slavery seems to be only useful for emergencies rushing.
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