<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
a few ideas :
+10%
+1
- maybe only under certain civics? +1%
in all cities or -1% anarchy length? Maybe not the most appropriate ideas, just brainstorming.
Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings
- Thread starter Vokarya
- Start date
+10%
+1
- maybe only under certain civics? +1%
in all cities or -1% anarchy length? Maybe not the most appropriate ideas, just brainstorming.a few ideas :
+10%
+1
+1%
+1
under certain civics is definitely worth considering. I don't want to do +% culture; I need to start doing an analysis of the total culture amounts being given out. I'm leaning towards +1 Great Person Point without specifying a GP type.One of my principles of where to place XP bonuses from buildings is that military doctrine does not necessarily keep up with military technology, and that I think it is more interesting if the ability to add XP to a new unit type is not available immediately upon unlocking the new type. For example, this is why Archery Range does not appear until Athletics, forcing your first Archers to be lower in XP. Likewise, the transition from Melee to Gunpowder units needs some planning to pull off for maximum XP, because Arquebusier and Garrison appear at separate techs (although Leadership and Matchlock are on the same column, rather than Leadership appearing later). By the Modern Era, general military science is developed enough to where this is harder to justify, but it feels correct for earlier eras.
Another thing that I want to be careful of is over-proliferation of XP on a specific unit type. This results in "curve-breaking" or units starting out with too many promotions. A well-established civilization should be able to train fairly high-quality units but not exceptional quantities of them. The really elite units (taking advantage of West Point, Red Cross, National Redoubt, or Secret Army Base) need to come in smaller quantity.
What this translates to is I want to institute a couple cuts in the XP bonuses from buildings.
Garrison
Military Base
The reason for cutting the bonus to Recon units is that it's never likely to be used. The last unit in the actual Recon class is the Adventurer. The Motorcycle is classified as a Wheeled Unit, and so you would rarely have a situation where you could build a Recon unit that would get an XP bonus from a Base, unless the city was cut off from Oil Products and Vulcanized Rubber. In that case, I think you wouldn't be building scouting units; you'd be after defensive and offensive combat units.
Another thing that I want to be careful of is over-proliferation of XP on a specific unit type. This results in "curve-breaking" or units starting out with too many promotions. A well-established civilization should be able to train fairly high-quality units but not exceptional quantities of them. The really elite units (taking advantage of West Point, Red Cross, National Redoubt, or Secret Army Base) need to come in smaller quantity.
What this translates to is I want to institute a couple cuts in the XP bonuses from buildings.
Garrison
- No XP bonus to Wheeled Units
- No XP bonus to Tracked Units
Military Base
- No XP bonus to Helicopter units
- No XP bonus to Recon units
The reason for cutting the bonus to Recon units is that it's never likely to be used. The last unit in the actual Recon class is the Adventurer. The Motorcycle is classified as a Wheeled Unit, and so you would rarely have a situation where you could build a Recon unit that would get an XP bonus from a Base, unless the city was cut off from Oil Products and Vulcanized Rubber. In that case, I think you wouldn't be building scouting units; you'd be after defensive and offensive combat units.
Only slightly related to this post, but if you are making changes to it anyway, but could I ask about the Garrison not giving XP to mounted units, as the barracks does? This means that you have to split your Renaissance era military cities into building mounted (keep barracks) and gunpowder (build garrison). It would require less management if garrison also gave the barracks XP to mounted.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
+1
One more idea:
1 artist slot and 1 engineer slot, maybe? That would give you the GPP too.
The Xp trimming sound good and reasonable to me.
What I'm going to do is Drill Yard; +2 XP to Mounted units, requires Garrison, Knight's Stable, and Cavalry Tactics. I know it's more complicated, but I think it's important to give Cavalry Tactics something more than its current two units.
That sounds like a perfect solution.
One of the ideas that I have pushing for a long time is linking buildings together with prerequisites or replacements. I think this is valuable if only to keep the build lists for cities manageable; we have over 300 buildings in AND, so I think we need to use the methods we have to prevent them from all showing up at once.
We have two separate lines that represent ship-related buildings: the Port line (Harbor - Port - Seaport - International Port) and the Shipyard line (Shipyard - Drydock - Naval Yard). I would think that ship-handling facilities would be necessary before building ship-building facilities, but the only current link between the two is that Naval Yard requires International Port.
I would like to add the following links:
We have two separate lines that represent ship-related buildings: the Port line (Harbor - Port - Seaport - International Port) and the Shipyard line (Shipyard - Drydock - Naval Yard). I would think that ship-handling facilities would be necessary before building ship-building facilities, but the only current link between the two is that Naval Yard requires International Port.
I would like to add the following links:
- Shipyard requires Harbor OR Port OR Seaport. By the time you can build International Port, Drydock is available.
- Drydock requires Seaport OR International Port.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Can't we have the reverse? I seldomly build Shipyards only for wonders; I never had a need for ships..
Now that makes me play an Archipelago game with Willem..
Now that makes me play an Archipelago game with Willem..
Here are a couple of the new buildings that I've proposed and am going to include in my next build.
Standing Stone/Monument
This is a split of the existing Monument, since Monuments aren't the type of building that would logically go obsolete.
Standing Stone has the same stats as the original Monument: +1 culture, requires Mysticism, obsolete with Astronomy. Stonehenge generates free Standing Stones and the Monument UB's all replace Standing Stone as well.
View attachment 386687View attachment 386683
The Monument gets boosted to +2 culture and +1 Great Person Point without specifying a particular GP type. It also generates +1 happiness under the Nationalist civic. The really interesting part is that I decided to put it at Humanism. Monument is generic enough that it could be put just about anywhere, but for the replacement concept to work, it needs to be somewhere very near to or before Astronomy. Putting the Monument at Humanism gives the Humanism tech two tricks and allows dispensing with the need to create the Renaissance Man.
View attachment 386684
Drill Yard
Drill Yard is a simple building designed to make up for the loss of XP for Mounted Units when going from Barracks to Garrison (Barracks boosts Melee, Recon, and Mounted; Garrison boosts Gunpowder, Recon, and Siege). This ties into my "disruption" theory that converting to gunpowder-based military units is going to result in units with less effective training (XP) until you can get the doctrine right; for mounted units, that is literally the Cavalry Tactics tech. So you have to wait until Cavalry Tactics to get Drill Yards that restore the +2 XP from losing Barracks. After that, the only requirements are Garrison and Knight's Stable in the building city.
View attachment 386685View attachment 386686
Standing Stone/Monument
This is a split of the existing Monument, since Monuments aren't the type of building that would logically go obsolete.
Standing Stone has the same stats as the original Monument: +1 culture, requires Mysticism, obsolete with Astronomy. Stonehenge generates free Standing Stones and the Monument UB's all replace Standing Stone as well.
View attachment 386687View attachment 386683
The Monument gets boosted to +2 culture and +1 Great Person Point without specifying a particular GP type. It also generates +1 happiness under the Nationalist civic. The really interesting part is that I decided to put it at Humanism. Monument is generic enough that it could be put just about anywhere, but for the replacement concept to work, it needs to be somewhere very near to or before Astronomy. Putting the Monument at Humanism gives the Humanism tech two tricks and allows dispensing with the need to create the Renaissance Man.
View attachment 386684
Drill Yard
Drill Yard is a simple building designed to make up for the loss of XP for Mounted Units when going from Barracks to Garrison (Barracks boosts Melee, Recon, and Mounted; Garrison boosts Gunpowder, Recon, and Siege). This ties into my "disruption" theory that converting to gunpowder-based military units is going to result in units with less effective training (XP) until you can get the doctrine right; for mounted units, that is literally the Cavalry Tactics tech. So you have to wait until Cavalry Tactics to get Drill Yards that restore the +2 XP from losing Barracks. After that, the only requirements are Garrison and Knight's Stable in the building city.
View attachment 386685View attachment 386686
Here are two more buildings that I have proposed earlier and got around to coding:
Peace Movement
This is a new civic building for Pacifism. Its job is to bring public opinion against war by increasing war weariness by 5% for each Peace Movement in play. It affects both you and your enemies. (I don't think it affects your allies. The XML tag that I used is <GlobalWarWearinessModifier>, but Global in this case refers to all your cities as opposed to just the one city.) Art Gallery becomes an ordinary building and I'm cutting its culture from 5 to 4 (6 once you get Modern Art).
View attachment 386708
Power Receiver
This is a new building for the Wireless Electricity tech. It allows beaming power from a Fusion Power Plant to a city not on the same continent. It requires one FPP to build and can be built anywhere; one FPP can power an unlimited number of Power Receivers. It replaces all older power plants, doesn't require a Factory to be built, and doesn't employ any citizens like the older power plants do.
View attachment 386709
Peace Movement
This is a new civic building for Pacifism. Its job is to bring public opinion against war by increasing war weariness by 5% for each Peace Movement in play. It affects both you and your enemies. (I don't think it affects your allies. The XML tag that I used is <GlobalWarWearinessModifier>, but Global in this case refers to all your cities as opposed to just the one city.) Art Gallery becomes an ordinary building and I'm cutting its culture from 5 to 4 (6 once you get Modern Art).
View attachment 386708
Power Receiver
This is a new building for the Wireless Electricity tech. It allows beaming power from a Fusion Power Plant to a city not on the same continent. It requires one FPP to build and can be built anywhere; one FPP can power an unlimited number of Power Receivers. It replaces all older power plants, doesn't require a Factory to be built, and doesn't employ any citizens like the older power plants do.
View attachment 386709
Does the extra WW apply to ALL players engaged in ANY war, or only in wars against the owner of the Peace Movement buildings?
oldnooob
Prince
@Volkara, You put in War Reparations. How do I demand War Reparations if the other civ simply has that option displayed in red? Quite a few civs want to restore relations but I have to refuse because I cannot demand War Reparations.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
oldnooob, War Reparations is Afforess' idea, not Vokarya's. You cannot demand War Reparations. You can OFFER them sometimes, to improve relations.
I think it's only going to apply to wars against the owners of the Movement buildings. There are three tags that can be used to modify war weariness:
- <WarWearinessModifier> is used by buildings like Jail to modify the War Weariness of a particular city.
- <GlobalWarWearinessModifier> is used by Mt. Rushmore to modify the War Weariness of all your cities.
- <EnemyWarWearinessModifier> is used by Statue of Zeus to modify the War Weariness of anyone who declares war on you.
oldnooob
Prince
@45, My apologies to Vokarya. Someday someone will make a civics mod (I hope) which will include features that actually work both ways. Civics are one of the weakest features of civilization4. the ability to actually get rid of the absolute black and white of the civics interface and be able to actually negotiate with the AI would be phenomenal.
Lord Bigfoot
King
45°38'N-13°47'E;13594060 said:
Which doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
And why is that? Demanding war reparations is something that can be exploited by who is winning the war, offering them is a way to balance things and settle some long time dispute between civilizations by improving relations. And it should work both ways AFAIK, if AI wants to improve relations with you. Think about gameplay, don't always think about real world.
I'm working on the Omnifactory as a new civic building for the Post-Scarcity civic. Post-Scarcity's current civic building is the Automated Defenses, which I think is far more appropriate for the Unmanned Warfare civic. Unmanned Warfare's current civic building is the Control Center, whose only bonuses are +2 XP for Assault Mech/Dreadnought/Air units. I think I'm going to leave Control Center as a neutral building, but do you think it might be better to leave it with Unmanned Warfare or cut it out completely? The only other sources of XP for Assault Mech and Dreadnought units are the Automated Defenses and the Military Base (and I'm thinking of cutting the XP from Military Base as well).
Lord Bigfoot
King
45°38'N-13°47'E;13595931 said:
TBH I think it should be replaced or at least have the name changed since war reparations are almost always payed out by the loosing side. Plus couldn't you say dealing techs and money when ending a war already counted as reparations?
