Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[oldnooob]

And why is that? Demanding war reparations is something that can be exploited by who is winning the war, offering them is a way to balance things and settle some long time dispute between civilizations by improving relations. And it should work both ways AFAIK, if AI wants to improve relations with you. Think about gameplay, don't always think about real world.

It does not work both ways as I originally said. When I posted my complaint There were ten civs trying to reestablish relations with me but I refused them because every one of them owed me war reparations (marked in red). So in my opinion war reparations are bugged because the feature only works ONE way.

 

[oldnooob]

@Vokara, I am not sure if Automatic Defenses is one of them, but there are four anti missile defenses in the end game. I believe three of them are redundant. I believe one of them could be a log range anti aircraft missile battery , one per civ like flack tower for example, or something.

 

[nionios]

TBH I think it should be replaced or at least have the name changed since war reparations are almost always payed out by the loosing side. Plus couldn't you say dealing techs and money when ending a war already counted as reparations?

I don't think it's a matter of loser/winner for paying war reps but who invaded and caused damage to the other.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm working on the Omnifactory as a new civic building for the Post-Scarcity civic. Post-Scarcity's current civic building is the Automated Defenses, which I think is far more appropriate for the Unmanned Warfare civic. Unmanned Warfare's current civic building is the Control Center, whose only bonuses are +2 XP for Assault Mech/Dreadnought/Air units. I think I'm going to leave Control Center as a neutral building, but do you think it might be better to leave it with Unmanned Warfare or cut it out completely? The only other sources of XP for Assault Mech and Dreadnought units are the Automated Defenses and the Military Base (and I'm thinking of cutting the XP from Military Base as well).

I think the change would be the best: IMO every civic should have its own building

 

[Vokarya]

@Vokara, I am not sure if Automatic Defenses is one of them, but there are four anti missile defenses in the end game. I believe three of them are redundant. I believe one of them could be a log range anti aircraft missile battery , one per civ like flack tower for example, or something.

Anti-Missile Batteries and Automated Defenses are both buildings. The rest are projects and only increase your chance of intercepting nukes. AMB and AD are fairly similar, but I think we should leave them alone because AMB eventually merges into the Arcology line and AD is a civic building; I also don't want to fold AD's bonuses into Arcology.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm looking at retooling a few buildings to make them fit together into building lines. I have a list of all the current buildings and the lines and groups they fit into, and I noticed that two buildings that don't seem to belong to a group are the Bank and the E-Bank. I think it would be very appropriate for the E-Bank to be an upgrade of the Bank, but with a few more requirements on it. This is what I would do:

• E-Bank replaces Bank.
• E-Bank requires Power and a Computer Network to be built.
• Replace the +25% commerce from power with +60% gold. This covers Bank's +30% gold and balances out losing the +25% commerce. +X% commerce is more valuable than +X% to a single commerce because raw commerce can benefit from all commerce% boosters.

Secondly, Global Stock Exchange, to me, is a very unimpressive Wonder. World Wonders need a lot of zing, especially in the Transhuman Era, and Global Stock Exchange as it currently stands doesn't do that. I would like to add the following to GSE:

• Free E-Bank in every city.
• +3 gold from all E-Bank.

This would provide benefits for both new cities (although power-less cities would immediately have the free E-Bank shut down) and established cities that already built their E-Banks (GSE is early-Transhuman, while E-Bank is late Modern). This is a lot like what we did with Piazza San Marco.

 

[Rezca]

War Reparations only removes the otherwise permanent "You declared war on us!" penalties as far as I know. It doesn't make them hate you any less for razing their cities or bribing other leaders into the war against them - only makes them less unhappy for you declaring on them in the first place.

 

[Vokarya]

When we converted over to the current connectedness mechanic for trade, Hotel and Vacation Resort lost their trade route modifier and Hotel got a flat +2 gold. I don't mind this, but I think that Hotel and Vacation Resort deserve to have a connectedness commerce bonus instead of the +% gold they currently give. Buildings that give +% gold should be associated with lots of financial transactions (Market, Bank) and Hotel/Resort is not a kind of building that, at least to me, has that kind of association. On the other hand, since Hotels and Resorts see lots of visitors, especially from other cities and nations, a small flat espionage bonus would be proper.

So these changes will be made to the existing buildings:
Hotel:

• No +5% gold
• +2 espionage
• +1 commerce/5 connected domestic cities (max 3) and +1 commerce/4 connected foreign cities (max 3)

Vacation Resort:

• No +10% gold
• +4 espionage
• +1 commerce/4 connected domestic cities (max 5) and +1 commerce/3 connected foreign cities (max 5)

I'm capping these bonuses at fairly low levels so that they are not overwhelming compared to other buildings and to keep the effect proportionate to what Hotel/VR are already doing. The +commerce will be better for your economy if your tax rate is high.

 

[<Nexus>]

I agree with the commerce changes, but not with the espionage changes. Hotel and VR are not some kind of interrogation buildings (like Jail or Police station). Market and Port like buildings also see a lot of visitors, but don't get espionage points. Also, a +2/+4 doesn't seem to be that small bonus anyway. If we want them to generate more we can change the commerce slider.


I like the Bank/E-Bank changes

 

[Noyyau]

I second Sogroon's opinion that Hotel and Resort shouldn't have Espionage bonuses.
Just connectedness-generated general commerce.

 

[Rezca]

I second Sogroon's opinion that Hotel and Resort shouldn't have Espionage bonuses.
Just connectedness-generated general commerce.

If anything, I think they'd reduce the resistance of enemy Spy missions undertaken in that city, the opposite of what Town Watches and Jails do. Either way, not really sure it 'fits' but if an Espionage boost is added to them, I think +2/3 is a bit strong.

 

[<Nexus>]

I think a more appropriate bonus would be to give Hotels/Vacation Resorts a small commerce bonus based on other buildings present in the city. Maybe a +5% / Wonders and a +2% /Museum, Cathedrals, etc.
But I guess that would be too difficult to do, requiring new xml tags.

 

[Vokarya]

Okay, no espionage bonus then.

 

[Lord Bigfoot]

War Reparations only removes the otherwise permanent "You declared war on us!" penalties as far as I know. It doesn't make them hate you any less for razing their cities or bribing other leaders into the war against them - only makes them less unhappy for you declaring on them in the first place.

That penalty should go away on its own really without needing something like that.

 

[Rezca]

That penalty should go away on its own really without needing something like that.

I think it shouldn't. War declarations and especially repeated ones shouldn't just magically go away for free. Neither the player nor the AI should just get a free pass from the negative consequences of it just by waiting. Declaring on someone should stick around until you do something to make it up for them, however the "You refused to help us in wartime!" should go away on its own eventually I think.

 

[<Nexus>]

I think it shouldn't. War declarations and especially repeated ones shouldn't just magically go away for free. Neither the player nor the AI should just get a free pass from the negative consequences of it just by waiting. Declaring on someone should stick around until you do something to make it up for them, however the "You refused to help us in wartime!" should go away on its own eventually I think.

I think it should, just veeeery slowly.
Think of the hundred years war between France and Great-Britain (1337-1453), and they had more wars later. But they were allies from WW I. onward, and now part of the European Union.
Or you can think of the relation between Great-Britain and the USA too. They warred in the independence war, but now are closest allies.

I doubt there were any War Reparations in either cases. War just slowly faded away as the world conditions changed (mutually fruitful trading / a new, greater threat).

 

[Samson]

I think it should, just veeeery slowly.
Think of the hundred years war between France and Great-Britain (1337-1453), and they had more wars later. But they were allies from WW I. onward, and now part of the European Union.
Or you can think of the relation between Great-Britain and the USA too. They warred in the independence war, but now are closest allies.

I doubt there were any War Reparations in either cases. War just slowly faded away as the world conditions changed (mutually fruitful trading / a new, greater threat).

Are you saying that you think that there is no animosity in the English or French populations resulting from our many centuries of war? It does not seem that way to me. And the memories in other parts of the world are longer, I am always amazed when people bring up injustices/massacres that occurred millennia ago when I visit the former Yugoslavia.

I am not sure how this relates to the game, but IRL it seems that memories for these things are pretty long.

 

[<Nexus>]

Are you saying that you think that there is no animosity in the English or French populations resulting from our many centuries of war? (...)

No. I just said, that I think that you don't feel that hot hatred towards the French as your ancestors did. But I admit that I am a very peaceful, pacifist and forgiving person So, I may be wrong with my viewpoint. Maybe

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

No. I just said, that I think that you don't feel that hot hatred towards the French as your ancestors did. But I admit that I am a very peaceful, pacifist and forgiving person So, I may be wrong with my viewpoint. Maybe

Here in Trieste there's still tension between Italians and former Yugoslavians because of what happened during and after WW2 and even WW1. Not to the point of starting a war again of course, but some problems remain unsettled even 70 years after the war has ended.

 

[<Nexus>]

I see your point. My experience are the following here in Hungary:

Most Hungarians...
...don't really like the Russians, for the Soviet supervision.
...don't like the neighboring countries for they received many formerly Hungarian cities after WW I and II.

But in general we don't have much trouble with the Turks or the Mongols, because that was soooo long ago. It's only history. Not only generations, but centuries have passed since those war times.

That's why I think that penalty could go away very slowly.
...errr ... so slowly that it might not even matter?
Never mind. It's not a big issue in the game.