Vokarya's Workshop: Buildings

[Vokarya]

So here is what I have considered for Artists and Scientists to fit them to the new curve.

Artists

• Delete the Artist slot from Jewellery and Civilized Jewelers' Store.
• Add an Artist slot to Theatre.
• Delete the Artist slot from Movie Theatre.
• Delete the Celebrity from Movie Theatre and Holotheatre. Add +1 gold and +1 happiness to both.
• Add 1 Artist slot to Design Studio.
• Delete 1 Artist slot from Holotheatre.

This gives us the following by era:

• Ancient Era: 1 (Storyteller Circle)
• Classical: 2 (Theatre 2)
• Medieval: 3 (Theatre 2, Artists' Guild)
• Renaissance: 4 (Opera House 2, Artists' Guild, Painter's Studio)
• Industrial: 6 (Opera House 2, Artists' Guild, Photographer's Studio, Broadcast Tower, Advertising Agency)
• Modern: 8 (Opera House 2, Photographer's Studio, Communication Tower 2, Advertising Agency, TV Station, Design Studio)
• Transhuman: 10 (Opera House 2, Network Node 3, TV Station, Design Studio, Holotheatre, Paradise Garden 2)

I like the idea of having some specialists in less-obvious places, such as the Artist specialist on Advertising Agency. The Artist/Merchant, culture/gold symmetry appeals to me. Holotheatre keeps 1 Artist slot so that I can spread the Transhuman Era slots out a little. We need 4 Artist slots to make up for Photographer's Studio and Advertising Agency going obsolete during the era.

Also, I treat Sculptor's Workshop as an uncommon building. It's supposed to require Stone or Marble in city vicinity (this might be currently broken), and therefore is not buildable in every city.

Scientists
The problem I had with Scientists is too few in the Industrial and too many later on. We cut some from the later buildings.

• Delete the Scientist slot from Museum.
• Add a Scientist slot to School.
• Delete the Scientist slot from Biological Warfare Lab.
• Delete the Scientist slot from Mech Assembly Plant.

And this is the new Scientist curve.

• Ancient Era: 1 (School of Scribes)
• Classical: 2 (School of Scribes, Library)
• Medieval: 4 (School of Scribes, Library, Alchemist's Lab, University)
• Renaissance: 4 (Library, Laboratory, University, Observatory)
• Industrial: 6 (Library, Laboratory, University, Observatory, Zoo, School)
• Modern: 8 (Library, Laboratory, University, Observatory, Zoo, School, Accelerator, Cloning Laboratory/Genetics Laboratory)
• Transhuman: 10 (Library, Laboratory, University, Observatory, Zoo, School, Accelerator, Cloning Laboratory/Genetics Laboratory, Android Factory, Cloning Factory/Cloning Tanks)

We have enough Science buildings that I don't see a need to give any one building 2 slots. This is unlike BTS, where many buildings get 2 slots rather than 1. Temples, Forge, Courthouse, Observatory, and Laboratory grant only 1.

The big hole that I can see is that there is a lack of scientific buildings specifically in the Industrial Era. The Industrial Era is overflowing with buildings in general - it currently has 72, more than a weighted average would allow for and much more with the number of techs cut down to 40 - so it doesn't need any new buildings. This was one reason for adding the Zoo and why I added a Scientist slot to School.

Observatory is not nearly as rare as Sculptor's Workshop. Observatory does have a requirement (Hill or Peak in city vicinity) but I think most maps will have those. I think we can treat Observatory as 1 Scientist slot for all cities. If it is missing from a city, it balances out that the Medieval Era gets 4 Scientist slots rather than 3. I would rather not delete the Scientist slot from either University or Alchemist's Lab.

Scientists do have their own weird buildings with the Info Net (1 Scientist slot) and Quantum Lab (2 free Scientists). I'm not sure what the Info Net is really supposed to be, but I don't want to take away any buildings from the Modern Era.

 

[Vokarya]

Aside from Specialists, here is another anomaly I noticed. Cathedrals check the counts of Temples of the appropriate type before allowing you to build them. They do not check for the presence of the Temple in the same city.

It would be a very easy fix to make Cathedrals require the appropriate Temple before building. I don't think cities should be allowed to skip straight to the Cathedral stage. It also has the nice little effect of, once again, shortening the building list at any given point. With over 300 buildings in this mod, a few tricks so that you don't see all of them at once are in order.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Aside from Specialists, here is another anomaly I noticed. Cathedrals check the counts of Temples of the appropriate type before allowing you to build them. They do not check for the presence of the Temple in the same city.

It would be a very easy fix to make Cathedrals require the appropriate Temple before building. I don't think cities should be allowed to skip straight to the Cathedral stage. It also has the nice little effect of, once again, shortening the building list at any given point. With over 300 buildings in this mod, a few tricks so that you don't see all of them at once are in order.

Uh, definitely true, I've never noticed it. I can't check now, but is it something that you can do with XML and current tags or does it require dll changes? If so I add it to my to-do list for when I get back ( which should be before the end of the month).

 

[Vokarya]

Uh, definitely true, I've never noticed it. I can't check now, but is it something that you can do with XML and current tags or does it require dll changes? If so I add it to my to-do list for when I get back ( which should be before the end of the month).

XML is all that is needed. Cathedrals counting Temples use <PrereqBuildingClasses>. A direct "you must have this building" is <BuildingClassNeededs>.

By the way, do you have any idea about increasing Industrial research time? I'm playing right now with some of my proposed changes, especially the 40-tech Industrial cuts, and research time definitely needs to be increased.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

By the way, do you have any idea about increasing Industrial research time? I'm playing right now with some of my proposed changes, especially the 40-tech Industrial cuts, and research time definitely needs to be increased.

Sorry, I've just checked and it seems my answer to your PM wasn't sent. I could be over quota but I can't check right now, I'm mostly using Tapatalk when checking the forum.

Anyway it's actually hard to tell right now. You could try to increase TechCostModifier in EraInfos, we definitely need it if you cut those techs. But we'll have to balance it again once I fix Free Trade Agreement because that bug is really boosting some civs and it's throwing research out of balance, it's on my to do list to check research times once I've fixed FTA. Also it would be a good thing to have research costs progressively increase from Renaissance to industrial and not drop as they currently do, IIRC.

 

[Vokarya]

Sorry, I've just checked and it seems my answer to your PM wasn't sent. I could be over quota but I can't check right now, I'm mostly using Tapatalk when checking the forum.

Anyway it's actually hard to tell right now. You could try to increase TechCostModifier in EraInfos, we definitely need it if you cut those techs. But we'll have to balance it again once I fix Free Trade Agreement because that bug is really boosting some civs and it's throwing research out of balance, it's on my to do list to check research times once I've fixed FTA. Also it would be a good thing to have research costs progressively increase from Renaissance to industrial and not drop as they currently do, IIRC.

I just want something to start testing with. I'll change <iTechCostModifier> from 30 to 45. That would be a place to begin. If you think that is too high, let me know.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I just want something to start testing with. I'll change <iTechCostModifier> from 30 to 45. That would be a place to begin. If you think that is too high, let me know.

Sounds good, we'll have to test anyway so I think this is a good start.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I just want something to start testing with. I'll change <iTechCostModifier> from 30 to 45. That would be a place to begin. If you think that is too high, let me know.

FYI, I've tested with 180 and it looks good enough.

 

[Vokarya]

FYI, I've tested with 180 and it looks good enough.

OK. I had no idea how that number worked. I estimated based on cutting the total base cost by 30%.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I don't remember the exact formula, but you can see it in source files. I've just run a couple of tests starting from some empirical values I've used in the past.

 

[Vokarya]

So here is what I came up with for Engineers and Merchants.

There are a lot of places where we could put an Engineer specialist or two. Mostly what I want to do is cut out the free Engineers from various places. The Industrial Era needs to shed several of its Engineers.
Cuts to make:

• Delete the Engineer specialists from Steel Mill.
• Delete the Engineer specialists from Construction Firm.
• Convert the free Engineer from Industrial Park and Citycreche into an Engineer slot (for a total of 2 Engineer slots). The Industrial Park in BTS gives a free Engineer, but our Industrial Park has the additional abilities of +50% building construction and +50% construction speed of Manufacturing Plant and Skyscraper.
• Delete the free Engineer from Design Studio. It's keeping an Artist slot and +25% commerce with Power.
• Add an Engineer to Advanced Quality Control. I want to remove the GPP, but I can handle it having one more Engineer.

This gives

• Ancient: 1 (Forge)
• Classical: 2 (Forge, Armourer)
• Medieval: 3 (Forge, Armourer, Townclock)
• Renaissance: 4 (Forge, Cannon Forge, Townclock, Foundry)
• Industrial: 6 (Forge, Arsenal, Townclock, Foundry, Factory 2)
• Modern: 8 (Forge, Arsenal, Foundry, Factory 2, Manufacturing Plant, Industrial Park 2)
• Transhuman: 10 (Forge, Mech Assembly Plant, Foundry, Factory 2, Nanofactory, Citycreche 2, Advanced Quality Control. Android Factory)

Merchants revolve around their marketplaces. I want to cut a couple and remove some free ones. Free Merchants can come from civic buildings (Free Port, Chamber of Commerce) or Wonders.

• Convert the free Merchant from Hotel/Vacation Resort to a Merchant slot.
• Delete 1 Merchant slot from Supermarket. Supermarket has other bonuses.
• Delete the Merchant slot from Food Processing Plant.
• Convert Hypermarket's 1 free Merchant to a Merchant slot. This gives it 7 Merchants. Hypermarket is about the only commercial building in the Transhuman Era, so it is absorbing Shopping District and Supermarket's Merchants, compensating for Advertising Agency going obsolete, and providing the Transhuman Era's +2 Merchant slots to stay on curve.

This gives us the ideal curve, if a bit concentrated in one building with the Hypermarket.

• Ancient: 1 (Bazaar)
• Classical: 2 (Bazaar, Market)
• Medieval: 3 (Bazaar, Market, Grocer)
• Renaissance: 4 (Bazaar, Market, Grocer, Hotel)
• Industrial: 6 (Shopping District 3, Supermarket, Hotel, Advertising Agency)
• Modern: 8 (Shopping District 3, Supermarket, Hotel/Vacation Resort, Advertising Agency, Convention Center, E-Bank)
• Modern: 10 (Hypermarket 7, Hotel/Vacation Resort, Convention Center, E-Bank)

 

[<Nexus>]

With the recent changes to Watchtower-->Police station, maybe we could bring back the deleted Citygate building as a middle building. There is a very big gap between watchtower and police station.

 

[Rezca]

Bit off topic, but I just reached the Industrial in my current game and noticed that the Coal and Oil plants state they don't replace each other. Does this mean that if you build a Coal plant when it arrives for the power, but then build an Oil plant later both building's unhealthiness will stack?

 

[Vokarya]

Bit off topic, but I just reached the Industrial in my current game and noticed that the Coal and Oil plants state they don't replace each other. Does this mean that if you build a Coal plant when it arrives for the power, but then build an Oil plant later both building's unhealthiness will stack?

The +2 unhealth from Coal Plant will stay. There is "dirty power" and "clean power". Any power source provides 2 unhealth. Coal Plant and Oil Power Plant produce "dirty power" that provides an extra 4 unhealth. Only one of these will count; you would get the same +6 unhealth from a Coal Plant alone or a Coal Plant and an Oil Plant. Any "clean power" source (Hydro, Nuclear, Solar) will replace the dirty power plants and prevent all the unhealth, leaving only the 2 unhealth from power in general.

I am not sure why Oil Power Plant does not replace Coal Plant. It should. That would save you 2 unhealth.

 

[Vokarya]

With the recent changes to Watchtower-->Police station, maybe we could bring back the deleted Citygate building as a middle building. There is a very big gap between watchtower and police station.

If we need espionage defense, I would put it on City Gatehouse and not have a separate building. I am actually looking to see if we can separate Magistrates from Spies somewhat.

 

[<Nexus>]

It's good to have rev bonus on Village Hall buildings but I don't think it's very good to have the same number on all buildings. They should be incremental IMO.
Just imagine the case where you capture a large city that could build Metro.Admin., but you just quickly build the Village Hall than build other buildings. This is an exploitation.

 

[Vokarya]

It's good to have rev bonus on Village Hall buildings but I don't think it's very good to have the same number on all buildings. They should be incremental IMO.
Just imagine the case where you capture a large city that could build Metro.Admin., but you just quickly build the Village Hall than build other buildings. This is an exploitation.

This was a starting point. I think the frequency of revolutions was a bit too high and I wanted something especially to help in the Ancient Era. There are actually other ways to reduce revolutions once you get later in the game. For example, I had to re-learn that Walls make garrisons more effective (up to the cap limit). The penalty for a colony (not on the same continent as your capital) drops off once the city gets to Developing culture (culturelevel > 2 in the Python; I am guessing None = 0, Poor = 1, Fledgling = 2, Developing = 3). The penalty for distance drops off for cities that have power and have airlift capacity. Few of these options are available in the early game.

Also, the ability to build upgrades to the Village Hall line is limited by the city's culture level. You have to get to Refined for City Council and Influential for Metropolitan Administration. So it wouldn't help immediately.

 

[Arakhor]

The rev is too damn high, eh?

 

[maglock]

This was a starting point. I think the frequency of revolutions was a bit too high and I wanted something especially to help in the Ancient Era. There are actually other ways to reduce revolutions once you get later in the game. For example, I had to re-learn that Walls make garrisons more effective (up to the cap limit). The penalty for a colony (not on the same continent as your capital) drops off once the city gets to Developing culture (culturelevel > 2 in the Python; I am guessing None = 0, Poor = 1, Fledgling = 2, Developing = 3). The penalty for distance drops off for cities that have power and have airlift capacity. Few of these options are available in the early game.

Also, the ability to build upgrades to the Village Hall line is limited by the city's culture level. You have to get to Refined for City Council and Influential for Metropolitan Administration. So it wouldn't help immediately.

Could you please add this information to the revolution page in the Civilopedia - creating a section called "Stability" or something. Here you could list and link all buildings and civics that increase stability.

Those listed above (ie walls influencing garrison stability, garrison stability cap, culture level lowering colony instability, and power and airlift capacity lowering deistance penalties) should be added under special abilities for relevant buildings and in the new "Stability" section of the revolution page.

This information is sorely needed to manage revolutions more effectively. Most of it I have never known. Others probably don't know it either.

Please consider it

 

[Vokarya]

At some point, the Civilopedia needs heavy revising. However, so much of the Civilopedia is hard-coded that I don't want to do it while we are still changing things. Many of the "Strategy Guides" are irrelevant since so much has been changed in AND and I think those could be completely removed.