Vox Populi Congress Proposal Workshop

[Stalker0]

With the recent change to Spain's old UA, how about reconstructing the Inquisition (Enhancer belief) using the old Spain UA? I think there should be a doctrine that aggressively expands religion(a religious fanatic) using Inquisitors to balance the units(not spy).
----------------------------------------------------
Inquisition(Enhancer belief) → Reconquista (Enhancer belief)

• Gain Inquisitors whenever a city is conquered, and Inquisitors do not cost maintenance (old Spain UA).
• Inquisitors remove 100% of other religion pressure and generate 25 gold for each converted Citizen when Removing Heresy. (Old 2.xx version / historically related to the Alhambra Decree.)
• When Inquisitors remove holy city of other religions, the Empire enters a Golden Age.

(- Lose: Inquisitors cost 33% less faith.)
(- Remove: Spies exert 52 Religious Pressure on Cities they occupy.)
(- Remove: 2 Happiness for spies stationed in Foreign Cities.)

It’s just too little to me. Why would I take this over an enhancer that gives me juicy yields. Inquisitors are just not prominent enough in a game to have and entire belief around them

 

[usadefcon1]

Just going to throw this out there and see if anyone else thinks it's a good idea:

Peace Treaties can be violated with the punishment of Backstabbing.

 

[Anarcomu]

Whilst we are at it, I think it might make sense to have a source of unhappiness similar to war weariness, but based on diplomatic unreliability. It increases by :

• Ending declaration of friendship
• Denouncing/declaring war on Friends or Vassals
• Breaking a promise
• Breaking a peace deal (if it pass)
• Anything else that I didn't think about and would make sense

 

[Pipiskus]

Thats silly, i cant think of any IRL occurrence of these things happening. There is no Friends in politics, all deals are transactional and can change any time and only very small, niche layer of people would get upset over this, most people would just go with it. Like there is already bunch of diplomatic modificators with other civs, i dont think we actually need anything else above this.

What i believe we need is the Civic and Reform modmod that adds bunch of Civ IV style civics into the game, new diplomatic modificators depending on your civics choice and a new way of dealing with excess gold, as civics maintenance depends on quantity of buildings in your empire, stopping warmongerers from snowballing everything in their way. And these effects are so cool and make the game so much more engaging. Like just look at some of these effects (those that are at modpage seam to have outdated descriptions):

Slavery: Gain 1 Laborer in every city, Gain 1 unhappiness in cities with no Courthouses, Growth in all cities is decreased by 10% - this is ideal for Persia.

Decentralization	Dictated by the influence of multiple trade parties.	Trade	Low	Trade Routes produce +2 additional gold. +0.75 Influence/turn to City-States with an active Trade Route., ideal for Kievan Rus	Diplomacy	+3 / -3
Commercialism	Dictated by national interests.	Currency	Medium	+3 Food and +3 Production in Cities connected to the Capital. +33% Food/Production from Internal Trade Routes. Can only create trade routes to Allied City-States, Vassals, or Masters.	Internal Trade Routes, Growth, Production	+5 / -5

Codified Law	Basis based on arranged and accounted codes.	Mathematics	Low	1 Specialist in all Cities do not contribute to Urbanization unhappiness. +1 Culture from Wonders.	Great People, Happiness	+3 / -3
Feudalism	Legal basis established by your superior.	Chivalry	High	+15 XP to Military Units. -35% Unit Maintenance. +20% City-State Yields. +10% Vassal and Puppet Yields.	Military Training, Offense, Defense, Diplomacy	+7 / -5

I have so much fun playing with it right now

 

[Recursive]

new diplomatic modificators depending on your civics choice

Just gonna chime in and note that the diplomatic modifiers described are too weak to have a substantial impact on AI diplomacy.

If you stack up four or five of them they do shift the needle a bit, but it only affects Opinion, not Approach directly. Opinion has a few other effects determining how nice the AI will be towards you, but mainly acts as a % modifier to Approach.

 

[msw1]

Diplomatic unreliability causing unhappiness makes perfect sense. If a country leader declares war on a long time ally, its people will be furious and many will probably emigrate. I can think of several real world examples happening today and it's easy to imagine other scenarios that would cause civil uprisings, e.g. America randomly attacking Canada or something.

 

[Rosete]

When playing the UCS modmod, it was possible for me to get a sphere of influence of a city state before the world congress was founded. Is it possible then, code wise to give a civ sanction as part of their UA? So that they will start the game sanctioned. This can be later remove during the world congress. The purpose is to simulate self isolationism.

 

[Pipiskus]

Have you ever been in a situation when you wanted to claim a land that doesnt worth culture and science penalty but you needed to get this luxury resource or that strategy resource or stop your rival from expanding there. But what if you didnt have to make such a tough decision and just plant there your own puppet city. This is why i made this thread to know how you guys feel about this idea and in what way it should be implemented if we agreed that we need it.

Lets start with my idea of a colonial city:
Colonial city is a usual puppet city that can be build by one of main civs. The only thing it should differ from a puppet city is a decreased buildings maintenance and increased yield gain, which can be introduced through unique on-settle building (NEEDS A NAME) and a free Courthouse in a case you would want to annex it later (Ai should have bigger change to annex these cities over captured puppets). In order to introduce this mechanic we would need to do one of these things (ive not yet decided which one would work best):
1. Make every settler type unit (except Venetian merchant) capable of building a Colonial city from day one as a separate button
2. Make this option unique to only Colonists from day one as a separate button
(1-2). We can also leave the button the same but at the moment when you decided to build a city you would get a window similar to one when capturing a city where you will be asked if you want to settle or make it your colony.
3. Make this option appear at Compass(or any other) tech the way i described it in 1 and (1-2)

Here are some examples of AI decision-making modifiers (all numbers are arbitrary and need adjustment):

The map type is Pangea or Communitas Map with None oceans option enabled - -1000% chance to settle a colonial city (you probably dont need these here)
The map size is Tiny/Small/Standard/Large/Huge - +5%/+5%/+10%/+10%/+15% chance
Ai has less/more than 4 cities - -100% chance
Ai has less/more than 6 cities - -25%/+5% per non-puppet city and +1% per every puppet city chance
The distance to the Capital: <25 tiles = -40%chance, >20 tiles= +0.5% per tile
The distance to the nearest non-puppet city: <10 tiles = -20% chance, >10 tiles = +1% per tile
The distance to the nearest road(or connected city? what do you think?) built by AI: <10 tiles = ????????? , >10 tiles = ?????
The planned city is on the same/different landmass as the Capital - -25%/+25% chance
The planned city is a naval city/or not - +10%/-10%
The planned city has a luxury you do not own/you do own within 3 city rings: +10%/+5%
The planned city has a strategic resource within 3 city rings: +10%
The planned city has more/or less rough terrain tiles within 3 city rings: +10%/+0%
The planned city has more/ or less than 2 bonus resources within 3 city rings: -10%/+10%
This is all i could come up with, i think we would need more -% modifiers but i cant think of much

So what do you think, does it worth the struggle?

 

[CppMaster]

Yeah, setting pupoet cities just for resources or territories would be cool, why not?
I'd prefer it to be the same button for settlers. Maybe since colonists for thematic reasons.

 

[N.Core]

Have you ever been in a situation when you wanted to claim a land that doesnt worth culture and science penalty but you needed to get this luxury resource or that strategy resource or stop your rival from expanding there. But what if you didnt have to make such a tough decision and just plant there your own puppet city. This is why i made this thread to know how you guys feel about this idea and in what way it should be implemented if we agreed that we need it.

Lets start with my idea of a colonial city:
Colonial city is a usual puppet city that can be build by one of main civs. The only thing it should differ from a puppet city is a decreased buildings maintenance and increased yield gain, which can be introduced through unique on-settle building (NEEDS A NAME) and a free Courthouse in a case you would want to annex it later (Ai should have bigger change to annex these cities over captured puppets). In order to introduce this mechanic we would need to do one of these things (ive not yet decided which one would work best):
1. Make every settler type unit (except Venetian merchant) capable of building a Colonial city from day one as a separate button
2. Make this option unique to only Colonists from day one as a separate button
(1-2). We can also leave the button the same but at the moment when you decided to build a city you would get a window similar to one when capturing a city where you will be asked if you want to settle or make it your colony.
3. Make this option appear at Compass(or any other) tech the way i described it in 1 and (1-2)

Already proposed by me in the previous session, didn't get passed. Good luck convincing the community again!

 

[hokath]

Yes that vote was a logjam.
Perhaps a simple yes/no on the puppet question would stand a decent chance, I don't know.

It's quite a map script specific question. Some maps put coal on tiny islands in the middle of nowhere, or the only uranium on the north pole.
Others are very abundant and the desire to settle is much lower.

Another alternative is one of those "forts can be built outside of territory and claim the tile they are on" type implementations.

 

[Pipiskus]

Another alternative is one of those "forts can be built outside of territory and claim the tile they are on" type implementations.

This is basically jarcast's Extraction outpost mod, but it appears quite late. The problem with that solution is that there is no way to capture this 1 tile improvement, unlike the city

 

[Anarcomu]

I don't know if it is doable, but what about an improvement that is built in neutral land and linked to a player (the same way embassies are built in CS land and linked to a player too), that doesn't claim the tile, and gives the resources to its builder ?
Is removed when pillaged (like old forts) so you can claim those outposts during war, and have to defend them too.

 

[msw1]

Already proposed by me in the previous session, didn't get passed. Good luck convincing the community again!

Well, you proposed colonists being forced to settle puppets. What @Pipiskus described was the option to found a puppet. I would probably say no to the former but yes to the latter.

 

[hokath]

Well if I remember N.Core's proposal was a puppet that had a building like a Courthouse already. So settle->immediate annex is the same as settle.

 

[CppMaster]

Well if I remember N.Core's proposal was a puppet that had a building like a Courthouse already. So settle->immediate annex is the same as settle.

Maybe not everyone got it.

 

[N.Core]

Well, you proposed colonists being forced to settle puppets. What @Pipiskus described was the option to found a puppet. I would probably say no to the former but yes to the latter.

I proposed to make Colonists settle puppets first, but if you wanted to annex it you could do it without penalty. You have both options available and I saw some AI annex their colony cities just fine in my playtest.

 

[Rustonreddit]

the proposal was very clear. maybe it got lost being around all the other proposals around it

Proposal Details
Proposal: Make Colonist settle puppet cities instead, and add a new instant building for Colonist called Colony with a similar ability like Courthouse so you can annex it immediately if you want.

Colony
No maintenance
Never Capture
Eliminate extra Unhappiness from an Occupied City

Rationale: By changing Colonist to settle puppets, you don't need to worry about extra city penalties (Culture, Science, Tourism) at the expense of Unhappiness from puppets (which you easily offset by working on Public Works). It makes late-game settling much more viable as you don't have to micromanage those new puppet cities as much as regular cities

 

[CppMaster]

the proposal was very clear. maybe it got lost being around all the other proposals around it

Proposal Details
Proposal: Make Colonist settle puppet cities instead, and add a new instant building for Colonist called Colony with a similar ability like Courthouse so you can annex it immediately if you want.

Colony
No maintenance
Never Capture
Eliminate extra Unhappiness from an Occupied City

Rationale: By changing Colonist to settle puppets, you don't need to worry about extra city penalties (Culture, Science, Tourism) at the expense of Unhappiness from puppets (which you easily offset by working on Public Works). It makes late-game settling much more viable as you don't have to micromanage those new puppet cities as much as regular cities

That's different, though, because of the Courthouse in puppet cities, which may be considered OP.

 

[Pipiskus]

That's different, though, because of the Courthouse in puppet cities, which may be considered OP.

but thats what i proposed as well, its just that i wanted to make it a different button to force Ai to choose between setling and building a colony, here Ai would always build a puppet, which is a much easier concept to be honest.