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Vox Populi Diplomacy Feedback

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by HeathcliffWarriors, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    You can get warmongering penalties for capturing the same city several times. Intended (by Firaxis).

    Additional diplomacy change for next version:
    Code:
    Added more nuance to new "captured cities" factor in approach calculation
    - Counts how many cities each player has captured from the other, subtracts cities captured from the AI from cities the AI captured from the player
    - If the difference is positive (AI has captured more cities), they're more likely to be hostile and finish the job, unless weaker (in which case they'll expect revenge and be more GUARDED)
    - If the difference is negative (AI has had more cities captured), they're more likely to be defensive and less likely to be hostile, unless stronger (in which case they'll seek revenge)
    - Only applies if proximity is CLOSE or NEIGHBORS (so capturing a lone city on another continent will not affect this)
    
    This should help somewhat for the AI repeatedly declaring wars that they lose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
  2. lunker

    lunker Warlord

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    Not sure if this was a change you made but I saw the diplo mod "You lowered their influence with a coup d'etat" or something. Pretty happy to see this but it seems to hurt relations with civs who didn't own the city state too. I think it should only hurt relations with the civ that you stole the CS from.
     
    Kim Dong Un and civplayer33 like this.
  3. Rafs

    Rafs Warlord

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    Thank you for your hard work HeathcliffWarriors, though I'd ask if it's possible to remove the penalty to capture/kill civilians if it's done upon city capture? I've had some AIs park 2-3 workers in there and once I take the city, I take a big diplo hit with them (annoying if I vassal), and a smaller one with all players. Can it be avoided in any way?
     
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  4. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Successful coups reduce Influence for all other civs with positive Influence, not just the previous ally, so all civs who lost Influence when you violently overthrew the smaller nation's government apply the penalty. That's the idea, anyway, inspired by the Cold War. The penalty is doubled for the previous ally, though.

    I could nullify the penalty if a unit is captured on a city tile (although there's the question of whether that would work with OCC), if that's what people want.
     
    Rafs likes this.
  5. lunker

    lunker Warlord

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    I see. I didn't know coups reduced other civ's influence (thought it was just a switcharoo), so I can understand why it would anger other civs. I have a bit of a problem with this because it's impossible to know who you're going to upset when performing a coup.

    Edit: If it's possible to differentiate, I think I would be very satisfied if the diplo mod decayed for civs who did not own the CS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  6. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    It decays for all civs already.
     
  7. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
     
  8. lunker

    lunker Warlord

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    Been playing with transparent diplomachy and I haven't noticed a decay on the mods. Do they just disappear eventually or is it gradual?
     
  9. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    It's intended to disappear after 50 turns (standard speed).

    Thought about it, and yeah, I'll nullify it for next version.
     
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  10. Vhozite

    Vhozite Chieftain

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    Does the AI ever use diplomats or trade for votes? I always try to have strong diplo presence even if I’m not going for that victory and the AI never seems to ask for votes.

    In my last game as Russia I spent most of the game with double the amount of votes most other civs had and nobody cared to try and buy votes. I dominated WC all game until the Netherlands caught up in votes with Freedom and a bunch of successful coup’s.

    I was also never able to buy votes from either of my two vassals (always impossible) and I’m running into this same issue in my current game as Songhai.
     
  11. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    I pretty regularly see the AI offer to buy votes.
     
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  12. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I'm definitely seeing the effects of the new proximity modifier in my latest game. China is my neighbor and hated my guts early on. We were at constant war. But once I put her down a few times and got strong, China changed her tune. We are now strong friends, have a defensive pact, and have been excellent trade partners for a long time.

    The one thing I'll is that China is paying me for votes (which is great to see), however, twice now they have been votes for the resolution I proposed. Aka China is paying me to vote the way I was probably going to vote anyway.
     
  13. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    No, you're not. It's not added yet. :)

    The AI has no way to know how you'll vote unless they've paid you for votes, and it can therefore be of value to them to know how you'll vote.
     
  14. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    hehe well that well shows the danger of relying on just a few pieces of anecdotal evidence:) My apologies.
     
  15. Arbi

    Arbi Chieftain

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    But is it reasonable to get a -30 penalty, which is the negative equivalent to a declaration of friendship? Especially considering that one can get the penalty by accidentally completing quests? :hammer:
     
  16. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    The penalty depends on the Minor Civ Dispute Level, which is itself heavily dependent on the MinorCivCompetitiveness leader flavor. It'll vary based on the intensity of the competition and how much that AI player cares about Influence competition.

    Also, Opinion is only one factor in deciding Approach, which is significantly more important than Opinion.

    Transparent Diplomacy is useful, but it can lead you into a trap of thinking the numbers there are the only gauge of the AI's thoughts towards you. There are many other factors that the AI considers when making decisions.
     
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  17. Tarzan737

    Tarzan737 Warlord

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    My feeling now is what causing biggest problem with diplomacy is when WC enters the game.. even your friends and so on start to vote for sanctions against you
    (Probably because you are competing or are to strong) and i hate it. It should be possible to have friends even if you are strong.
    My biggest concern is WC right now.
     
  18. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors King

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    Voting logic is separate from the diplomacy AI, but given the number of complaints about it, I'll take a look at it soon.
     
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  19. Heinz_Guderian

    Heinz_Guderian Chieftain

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    Gotta say the AI is quite impressive in general, so good work there. Not played enough to give specific feedback, but I do have a question:
    Are these diplomacy changes in the CPP or do you have a separate mod that I need to get?
     
  20. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    Is the warmonger penalty reduced if you capture cities when you have been declared war on?
     

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