Vpr1-Monarch & Emperor
- Thread starter viper275
- Start date
I hope we can read the rest of the turn log soon (@ King Alexander- You left us hanging 
King Alexander
Universe explorer
I know that I left you hanging! Don't worry, a little meditation is a good idea, while you're waiting for my turns!(j/k).
I'll post the remaining turns when I get home, after work(after 9-10 hours from now, I'll have my post, posted!)
BTW: Good suggestion about the shields diet in Cattaraugus(personally, I'd also prefer HG and not the GL, but we might hold the production until we find Feudalism, and *if needed*, starve the city a bit: we can't throw away so many shields).
I'll see how things will go with the Chinese: if I can completely throw them out of our continent, I'll do it.
I'll post the remaining turns when I get home, after work(after 9-10 hours from now, I'll have my post, posted!)
BTW: Good suggestion about the shields diet in Cattaraugus(personally, I'd also prefer HG and not the GL, but we might hold the production until we find Feudalism, and *if needed*, starve the city a bit: we can't throw away so many shields).
I'll see how things will go with the Chinese: if I can completely throw them out of our continent, I'll do it.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
>>SAVE<<
150AD (5)
In the in-between, the Spanish built the ToA. Switch Cattaraugus to Palace.
I use the MGL and hurry the FP in Oka.
Siege of Tsingtao: 2 MW retreat red-lined, 1MW kills a spear and gets promoted to Elite(no hp loss), 3/4 MW kills the last spear(1 hp loss) and we take the city.
I kill 2 swords, near Xinjan. Our troops need to heal first, before we continue, although I have kept some for good usage!
IBT
The Vikings begin the MoM and the Great Wall.
Carthage begins the HG. The Mom, and the Great Wall.
The Celts begin the GW and the HG: the Celt city of Entremont, completes the Great Wall.
France begins the HG: the French city of Paris, completes the Hanging Gardens.
170AD (6)
MicroManage a lot of core cities, to avoid riots the next turn: WW begins to strike.
The Chinese city of Macao, proves more tough to break than their core cities! I lost 3MW over there: Ill wait a little to gather more MW and strike again.
IBT
1 chinese archer kills 1 red-lined Elite MW(ouch).
Carthage begins the MoM, the GL and Sun Tzus(!).
The Carthaginian city of Carthage(go figure), completes MoM.
The Celts begin the GL.
190AD (7)
Siege of Xinjian: We kill 2 spears, 2MWs retreated red-lined, and we take the city with another MW(2 hps lost).
Our galley that explores the other continent, red-lines from a barb galley, but survives.
210AD (8)
Siege of Chengdu: We kill 2 spears, and the city falls to our hands.
Siege of Macao: We finally kill the tough spear, and the city belongs to our kingdom.
2 more Chinese cities remain on our continent.
Note: I didnt left any troops inside the cities weve taken(fear for flip), except the turn that the cities fall to our hands, so we rebuff the rebels asap. However, there are troops in the area(outside the cities) to take them back, if needed.
IBT
A Chinese spear moves out of Tientsin (maybe he goes to take one of the undefended cities, but I bet he will be annihilated before he says China!).
230AD (9)
Siege of Tientsin: We lose a MW(spear promotes, left with 3 hps), we kill the second spear(MW red-lined), we lose another MW(spear promotes to Elite, 3/5), Elite MW takes out the Elite spear(MW is left with 2/5), but no MGL. We also capture 2 chinese workers(and a few more the previous turns, that I forgot to write).
Elite MW kills the spear who had exited Tientsin before, he kills him(gets red-lined), but again no MGL (the RNG Gods werent by our side this time).
Shantung, is the only Chinese city left on our continent(west of our capital, to the end of the peninsula).
The game crushes, and Im forced to reload and play the turn again(arghh)
We find Kawauka in the jungle, next to Sulcis(carthage city).
IBT
Another Chinese spear was near Tientsin as it seems, because I couldnt see him(neither can now, but our MW will have him for lunch the next turn).
250AD (10)
We find Kente to the west in the peninsula, and we also destroy a barb camp nearby.
I notice with our galley that Shantung has an Elite spear: probably from barbs.
I raise the lux to 20% and make some taxmen where needed, and set a few cities to zero growth(again with taxmen, at least until we make peace treaty, that is. WW is becoming a problem).
Elite MW Secret Weapon, kills the hiding spearman, and red-lines(again, no MGL).
Summary
1) Watch out Beijing(has the Pyramids) and Shangai: they still have 1 resistor each. I have troops outside the previous cities, ready to take them back, if needed.
2) Beware of Chondote and Uskudar: they havent any culture and theyre just next to Celtic cities: better to have another unit fortified there, and rush the temples as soon as we have the money(I could rush one of them, but lets hear the teams opinion. Next player could do it).
3) I have a few MW inside Oka: we should watch this city, as it has the FP(I dont want a sneak attack from the Celts).
4) I have 3 MW near Gewauga, and they go for Shantung(last Chinese city on our continent. Note: The spear in Shantung is Elite, so gather all the 3 MW before attacking, or wait the 4th MW who is on his way to the area.
Note, that there is a settler hiding behind our 2 workers in Gewauga: he could settle the area, if Shantung is razed. If not, settle the remaining land next to the Viking city).
5) We need to make Peace asap after Shantung falls. We need markets in all our core cities, libraries, courts, ect
6) The Celts is our next target, but we should stay in peace for a while: WW is an issue, and we need to build infrastructure in our core cities.
7) Feudalism is 2 turns away: change the palace pre-build asap to Sun Tzus. We need to discuss what tech path well follow. All the way to MT, maybe, and qonquer the world?
8) Important: watch for unhappiness problems, until we make peace and micromanage our cities.
Good luck to the next player.
150AD (5)
In the in-between, the Spanish built the ToA. Switch Cattaraugus to Palace.
I use the MGL and hurry the FP in Oka.
Siege of Tsingtao: 2 MW retreat red-lined, 1MW kills a spear and gets promoted to Elite(no hp loss), 3/4 MW kills the last spear(1 hp loss) and we take the city.
I kill 2 swords, near Xinjan. Our troops need to heal first, before we continue, although I have kept some for good usage!
IBT
The Vikings begin the MoM and the Great Wall.
Carthage begins the HG. The Mom, and the Great Wall.
The Celts begin the GW and the HG: the Celt city of Entremont, completes the Great Wall.
France begins the HG: the French city of Paris, completes the Hanging Gardens.
170AD (6)
MicroManage a lot of core cities, to avoid riots the next turn: WW begins to strike.
The Chinese city of Macao, proves more tough to break than their core cities! I lost 3MW over there: Ill wait a little to gather more MW and strike again.
IBT
1 chinese archer kills 1 red-lined Elite MW(ouch).
Carthage begins the MoM, the GL and Sun Tzus(!).
The Carthaginian city of Carthage(go figure), completes MoM.
The Celts begin the GL.
190AD (7)
Siege of Xinjian: We kill 2 spears, 2MWs retreated red-lined, and we take the city with another MW(2 hps lost).
Our galley that explores the other continent, red-lines from a barb galley, but survives.
210AD (8)
Siege of Chengdu: We kill 2 spears, and the city falls to our hands.
Siege of Macao: We finally kill the tough spear, and the city belongs to our kingdom.
2 more Chinese cities remain on our continent.
Note: I didnt left any troops inside the cities weve taken(fear for flip), except the turn that the cities fall to our hands, so we rebuff the rebels asap. However, there are troops in the area(outside the cities) to take them back, if needed.
IBT
A Chinese spear moves out of Tientsin (maybe he goes to take one of the undefended cities, but I bet he will be annihilated before he says China!).
230AD (9)
Siege of Tientsin: We lose a MW(spear promotes, left with 3 hps), we kill the second spear(MW red-lined), we lose another MW(spear promotes to Elite, 3/5), Elite MW takes out the Elite spear(MW is left with 2/5), but no MGL. We also capture 2 chinese workers(and a few more the previous turns, that I forgot to write).
Elite MW kills the spear who had exited Tientsin before, he kills him(gets red-lined), but again no MGL (the RNG Gods werent by our side this time).
Shantung, is the only Chinese city left on our continent(west of our capital, to the end of the peninsula).
The game crushes, and Im forced to reload and play the turn again(arghh)
We find Kawauka in the jungle, next to Sulcis(carthage city).
IBT
Another Chinese spear was near Tientsin as it seems, because I couldnt see him(neither can now, but our MW will have him for lunch the next turn).
250AD (10)
We find Kente to the west in the peninsula, and we also destroy a barb camp nearby.
I notice with our galley that Shantung has an Elite spear: probably from barbs.
I raise the lux to 20% and make some taxmen where needed, and set a few cities to zero growth(again with taxmen, at least until we make peace treaty, that is. WW is becoming a problem).
Elite MW Secret Weapon, kills the hiding spearman, and red-lines(again, no MGL).
Summary
1) Watch out Beijing(has the Pyramids) and Shangai: they still have 1 resistor each. I have troops outside the previous cities, ready to take them back, if needed.
2) Beware of Chondote and Uskudar: they havent any culture and theyre just next to Celtic cities: better to have another unit fortified there, and rush the temples as soon as we have the money(I could rush one of them, but lets hear the teams opinion. Next player could do it).
3) I have a few MW inside Oka: we should watch this city, as it has the FP(I dont want a sneak attack from the Celts).
4) I have 3 MW near Gewauga, and they go for Shantung(last Chinese city on our continent. Note: The spear in Shantung is Elite, so gather all the 3 MW before attacking, or wait the 4th MW who is on his way to the area.
Note, that there is a settler hiding behind our 2 workers in Gewauga: he could settle the area, if Shantung is razed. If not, settle the remaining land next to the Viking city).
5) We need to make Peace asap after Shantung falls. We need markets in all our core cities, libraries, courts, ect
6) The Celts is our next target, but we should stay in peace for a while: WW is an issue, and we need to build infrastructure in our core cities.
7) Feudalism is 2 turns away: change the palace pre-build asap to Sun Tzus. We need to discuss what tech path well follow. All the way to MT, maybe, and qonquer the world?
8) Important: watch for unhappiness problems, until we make peace and micromanage our cities.
Good luck to the next player.
Got it, I can play this right now (to anyone from Clive1 that might be reading this, don't be offended that I'm skipping my turns there in favor of this, but those late-game turns are very long and my one post in that thread should explain more.)
I played half of my turns. China is gone. Now it's just the Celts. They have both Settler-Escort pairs and regular units in our territory. I can tell them to move but that could cause war, otherwise I'd declare. My thought is to first get an embassy (only 48 gold) and see if they have iron or not. If they have iron, we can have them spend all of their money on Feudalism so that they can't build more Gallic Swordsmen. If they don't, declaring war now is fine, although we might want to give Feudalism to play safe if they do get iron. We have a couple small stacks near them and probably could do some damage. Any thoughts?
King Alexander
Universe explorer
Last time I checked, at my ending turns, they hadn't connect their iron, because I could trade them iron(so, we don't need an embassy).
The thing is, that we could wait a few turns, so our core cities are done building their markets, so they could help us producing units.
Ok, establish an embassy and see what and how many units they have.One thing: gather most of our forces, if you're going to declare, so we can take them easily.
EDIT: We could always raze their cities, make settlers in the far-away cities that don't have enough production(but have enough pop), and settle our cities better positioned(and having the workers from the razed cities to help with the terrain).
The thing is, that we could wait a few turns, so our core cities are done building their markets, so they could help us producing units.
Ok, establish an embassy and see what and how many units they have.One thing: gather most of our forces, if you're going to declare, so we can take them easily.
EDIT: We could always raze their cities, make settlers in the far-away cities that don't have enough production(but have enough pop), and settle our cities better positioned(and having the workers from the razed cities to help with the terrain).
I'd wait until we're capable of making units again before declaring on celts (if they don't have iron).
Does anyone have any thoughts on victory conditions yet? If we're going to be razing cities, we will probably not want to go for a diplomatic victory. I think that both cultural victory types will be difficult, if not impossible, at this point. So, I guess that leaves space ship, conquest, and domination.
Does anyone have any thoughts on victory conditions yet? If we're going to be razing cities, we will probably not want to go for a diplomatic victory. I think that both cultural victory types will be difficult, if not impossible, at this point. So, I guess that leaves space ship, conquest, and domination.
fbouthil
Occasional Mercenary
All Celt cities, except Entremont, are size 6 or under. When I go to war with a civ that profits so much from The Great Wall, I usually try to conquer the city that contains it first. We know Entremont is somewhere N of Augustodurum. I suggest we try to put a good stack of MW in between Augustodurum and Agedincum ready to attack Entremont in 2t, then build the embassy. Once the stack of MW is big enough compared to the defenses seen in Entremont, DoW and quick conquest of Entremont. That way, the other Celt cities will not profit from The Great Wall and he would be an easy prey. 
There is no rush to do that as the defenses in conquered chinese cities look weak. I agree with rrau on that. Wait until we can build military units again.
I have not really tought about victory condition.
There is no rush to do that as the defenses in conquered chinese cities look weak. I agree with rrau on that. Wait until we can build military units again.
I have not really tought about victory condition.
Turn 1
I'm pretty sure the in the IBT here we discovered Feudalism, might have been later.
Turn 2
Very little.
Turn 3
Shatung captured.
Goodbye, China!
Turn 4
None.
Turn 5
Kiahero founded.
Turn 6
*Yawn*
Turn 7
Barb galley destroyed our exploring galley
.
Turn 8
Zzzzzz...
Turn 9
None, again.
Turn 10
Monotheism discovered, begin Theology.
I'm pretty sure the in the IBT here we discovered Feudalism, might have been later.
Turn 2
Very little.
Turn 3
Shatung captured.
Goodbye, China!Turn 4
None.
Turn 5
Kiahero founded.
Turn 6
*Yawn*
Turn 7
Barb galley destroyed our exploring galley
.Turn 8
Zzzzzz...
Turn 9
None, again.
Turn 10
Monotheism discovered, begin Theology.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
IMHO, we need to improve our infrastructure in our core cities and stay in peace for a while. Have all our core cities markets, libraries and courts(WW was a pain)? If they have, let them build units for the upcoming war.
I don't think the Celts can do much damage, when we'll declare. Our front cities to the Celt borders, need at least 2 spearmen once we go for war, as well as 1 MW ready to take out red-lined units.
Salamanca has barracks?(it hadn't in my turns): if not, we could find something else to build, until Sun Tzu's is completed.
The land around our core cities, must be improved first, and then go for the other cities. We only need to connect any unconnected cities now, and 1 worker(even a foreing) is enough for non-core cities.
Tech: we're aiming for other Wonders? We could go for Education, so we make the GL useless, and all the way to MT(cavs), or just go for MT and trade for the other techs.
I don't think the Celts can do much damage, when we'll declare. Our front cities to the Celt borders, need at least 2 spearmen once we go for war, as well as 1 MW ready to take out red-lined units.
Salamanca has barracks?(it hadn't in my turns): if not, we could find something else to build, until Sun Tzu's is completed.
The land around our core cities, must be improved first, and then go for the other cities. We only need to connect any unconnected cities now, and 1 worker(even a foreing) is enough for non-core cities.
Tech: we're aiming for other Wonders? We could go for Education, so we make the GL useless, and all the way to MT(cavs), or just go for MT and trade for the other techs.
IIRC Salamanca has barracks. WW was a little bit of a pain (I occassionally get that advisor pop-up that tells you the cities are in disorder.) Wonders... how about Smith's Trading Company? I definitely would want some cavs, but we might want to head to Economics and trade with other civs for the MT route, then get cavs. We could get them immediately, though. Oh, and Salamanca should keep making Settlers. I can't believe I forgot that 
.
.I would like to try to get smith's. With most of the continent to ourselves, once we get steam and rails, it will be difficult for other civs to land and get a foothold. Therefore, I think we can wait on the cav and trade for MT when it's available.
fbouthil
Occasional Mercenary
I have lots of objections today, I guess that if I were a woman, I would be in my pms. 
@rrau: I am not worried about other civ getting a foothold on our continent. I am much more preoccupied about us getting a foothold on the other continent!
- I agree that Smith's is an interesting wonder to have (so is JSBach IMHO), but I disagree researching towards it. We can easily trade the tech to at least university, once AI researches it (and they usually research it early in ma)
- We have the best military on earth (well, that earth at least). I would prefer researching chivalry, then go for MT. The AI often research MT very close to the end of MA and cav are most efficient before nationalism. By researching it ourselves, we would get it much faster. I realized I have very slim chances of getting my wish because most of you are against me on this, but I have to try.
- Maybe it is because I am a warmonger, but I think we have a shot at invading Scandinavia before they get their UU. By invading the other continent fast, we could have a domination victory before 1500AD (my fastest monarch victory is 850AD
). - Some very corrupted cities (Istanbul, Tatung, Tsientsin) are building libs. I think we should be considering switching to temple or courthouse. I do not think libs are useful for cities producing so few commerce.
- We have a lot of MW as garrison. IMHO, AI sometimes decides to sneak-attack a city based on the defense of the garrison. I would prefer we build pikemen to replace the MW who could then go to the frontline. If the Celts decide to invade Kawauka with the 3 units near it, IMHO they would succeed.
- We have lots of money, I guess the idea is to upgrade every possible units once Sun Tzu is finished.
- Salamanca does not have a barrack and is far from good settling spots. Settlers should be built closer to their settling spots. Salamanca could build workers to clear marsh and jungle or a lib.
@rrau: I am not worried about other civ getting a foothold on our continent. I am much more preoccupied about us getting a foothold on the other continent!
Smith's is pretty important, IMHO. You know what it does, right? Should help a lot on money later on. Also, we don't have to run toward it, just try to stay ahead of the AIs on it and get a good prebuild on it. However, as later mentioned, we can mass upgrade our MWs. So we probably should research Chivalry next.fbouthil said:[*]I agree that Smith's is an interesting wonder to have (so is JSBach IMHO), but I disagree researching towards it. We can easily trade the tech to at least university, once AI researches it (and they usually research it early in ma)efficient before nationalism. By researching it ourselves, we would get it much faster. I realized I have very slim chances of getting my wish because most of you are against me on this, but I have to try.
I doubt it. They're either 1 or 2 techs away from it. We'd have to get our MWs on boats and go to the other continent, and enough to do significant damage before Berserks. And Berserks... those are nasty little guys. I wouldn't want to get in a fight with them (6/2/1 plus amphibious as opposed to 4(2)/1/1)fbouthil said:
True, but who? Carthage has excellent defenders and both Vikings and France have good UU's coming up soon.fbouthil said:[*]We have the best military on earth (well, that earth at least). I would prefer researching chivalry, then go for MT. The AI often research MT very close to the end of MA and cav are most efficient before Nationalism. By invading the other continent fast, we could have a domination victory before 1500AD (my fastest monarch victory is 850AD
Sure that they don't have courthouses? If not I completely agree with you.fbouthil said:
Only the Celts can give us a problem and they're too weak to do a whole lot. Besides, most of those MWs are way away from anyone that could hurt us (even AIs on the other continent) because it's mostly what used to be Chinese cities.fbouthil said:
You've got it, especially important units. Important for our MWs.fbouthil said:
We can always send Settlers to the other continent. Those settling spots are also near the Celts, those cities should work on military and dealing with corruption.fbouthil said:
fbouthil
Occasional Mercenary
Actually, they are 3 techs away, but they may try to get a better gov before researching these. They are pretty small (11 cities including 3 cities far from their core cities), making them about as strong as the celts. I think we could damage them enough that the Berserks would come too late to save them.
... But it would require that we concentrate most of our efforts into this.
... And most of the team seems to prefer a more peaceful approach. I think we are more heading to a space race victory than a domination one, unless we are waiting to get tanks before invading the other continent.
... And I am thinking way too much in advance as we have to get rid of the Celts first. Once the Celts are history, we can reevaluate the situation.
Actually, I have a lot of points against me (some made by myself
), so forget about it. It was just a thought.
TheNemesis666
Warlord
i've got it but won't get to it until later today.
Thoughts are always welcome, they made me re-think this.
.
I kind of have a new plan now: attack Celts very soon, then secure the rest of this continent so that it isn't taken by other civs. We should get another galley out there to meet the rest of the civs. Once Numidian Mercenaries are mediocre defenders, we land a SoD next to Carthage (Cavs would work great here) and conquer them, perhaps with help, then take that continent from there. And besides, who says Domination and Space Race are the only 2 allowed victories? We could win something like Diplomaticfbouthil said:
.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
Edited: double post! Sorry everyone. A mod could delete this.
King Alexander
Universe explorer
Here's is my suggestions:
1) Salamanca should not build any more settlers. It's useless to have any more cities: we should focus on military. If we want more settlers, let the corrupt cities with high pop build them and/or rush them after a few turns(even if we had to lose some shields, if we change our current production), OR we should capture the Celt/other cities on our continent.
Salamanca doesn't have yet a library? It's our capital...
We should focus to improve all the tiles around our core cities asap.
2) I'd go for Chivalry and all the way to MT. When education is available, we should trade for it. We need to keep producing MW's, upgrade them to Knights(and cavs later), and qonquer everyone. If we want a wonder, Bach's would be my choice(we have a large continent, and we'd bennefit from it, although this is Monarch and we could live without it), Copernicus and/or Newton's later.
When Education is available, built universities in all our core cities.
3) Vikings have the Berserk: so what? You don't go and wait them to attack, you attack them before with Knights(I'd attack them even with MW's), because they can retreat(Berserks cannot retreat). The movement advantage is something we should strategically use.
4) We should preparing for the Celts soon. Let our cities continue to build MW's: it's a very good UU. Gather our troops and go after them.
In my turns, I didn't build more than 3-4 MW's: those I had were enough, if used correctly.
1) Salamanca should not build any more settlers. It's useless to have any more cities: we should focus on military. If we want more settlers, let the corrupt cities with high pop build them and/or rush them after a few turns(even if we had to lose some shields, if we change our current production), OR we should capture the Celt/other cities on our continent.
Salamanca doesn't have yet a library? It's our capital...
We should focus to improve all the tiles around our core cities asap.
2) I'd go for Chivalry and all the way to MT. When education is available, we should trade for it. We need to keep producing MW's, upgrade them to Knights(and cavs later), and qonquer everyone. If we want a wonder, Bach's would be my choice(we have a large continent, and we'd bennefit from it, although this is Monarch and we could live without it), Copernicus and/or Newton's later.
When Education is available, built universities in all our core cities.
3) Vikings have the Berserk: so what? You don't go and wait them to attack, you attack them before with Knights(I'd attack them even with MW's), because they can retreat(Berserks cannot retreat). The movement advantage is something we should strategically use.
4) We should preparing for the Celts soon. Let our cities continue to build MW's: it's a very good UU. Gather our troops and go after them.
In my turns, I didn't build more than 3-4 MW's: those I had were enough, if used correctly.
