GreyFox
Make it so ...
I vote yes, but that depends on the group collective. Now that I looked at the save, OBJ, you would have a hard tme repelling vicky's invading troops ... don't envy you!!! 
VQ02 - Predetermined City Placement
- Thread starter Maquis
- Start date
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
Well you and I vote yes then, but I'm going to try to take it first. I'm only on my second turn (got interrupted by RL - who does RL think it is anyway?), and ghandi is bombing down the defenses. Its no easy task to take at 50% defense and two longbows. I'll let them (hopefully) sacrifice their units and then I can wait until its size two...
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
IT:
Everything looks fine, we should be ok on units for now. I'll let the pikes finish, then mix in some maces and longbows if needed.
Turn 1 (1555AD):
We defend and win against a knight. We really need some attack units, Wish we had guilds. In fact, I change research to guilds. Why? Because three other civs have education and better tech output - very low chance of us getting liberalism before them - we still have 6 turns left on education alone. We could use the knights now to attack some of the pillaging units.
Turn 2 (1560AD):
Ok, I've been getting much better at war, but this is rediculous...
This is in addition to all the other units scattered abroad. Because we have no knights, I can't really attack out of the city. Farms are getting pillaged, culture defenses are getting reduced, and stacks of units keep coming. Lets hope I can get peace soon. Vicky still refuses to talk.
I make a crucial decision, that hurts but needs to be done. I switch to vassalage and theocracy.
Even if it only benefits new units, we can use all the xp we can get. I move the settlers and great artists out of the border cities in case it gets real bad.
Nice, it looks like Mansa wants a crack at the barbs too. My only hope is that they DO raze it and that it doesn't turn size 2. I'm not attacking just in case it grows and I can sneak it out from under their feet.
Turn 3 (1565AD):
Vicky still won't talk, but the SoD is still one tile away. If she won't do peace next turn, we're in for it.
Speaking of being in for it, Washington has Military Tradition, Constitution, and PP. Folks, thats called a runaway civ in my book.
Turn 4 (1570AD):
I lost count of the units that attacked, but we didn't lose any cities...yet. The barb city was razed. We got pillaged a ton - starting to look like a wasteland. How did all this happen? Its called being behind in tech because we started with 100% plains on a map that we had no choice of city placement. I love varients!!
There are still 4 health maces and 3 knights and an Xbow outside Antium - which only has one healthy longbow. Things aren't looking good for Antium...
Vicky still won't talk!! I didn't want to have to do it, but switch Rome off Taj. We need units bad!!
Turn 5 (1575AD):
Somehow, Antium survives despite bad pRNG. The bad news is that all thats left is one pikeman at 1.8. Even though we will have another longbow there next turn - we've all but lost antium.
Normally I don't get too upset when I lose a city, but I am now because there is no way to get it back. Our units are just too backward.
Vicky still won't even talk!! Ghandi is pleased with +8, but "doesn't like us enough" to attack vicky.
Now that I think about it, I should have went to no religion a few turns ago and maybe she would have talked, but no crying over spilled milk. Doh!! I pull my first true
of the turnset and forget that while in anarchy, I may not get the longbow that was due - that means we will definitely lose Antium.
Turn 6 (1580AD):
And we lose Antium. Sorry. I tried everything I could, but there were just too many more advanced units. We needed knights to stave it off. Their knights were even killing our pikes - WTH.
I hope I'm conveying this well. I'm over the city now - but still worried for the rest of the empire. We were heavily fortified at Antium. The rest of our cities well, er, suck on defense.
Turn 7 (1585AD):
Lose a worker. I can't keep track of where they are coming from now. I'll have to move the workers indoors or far away.
A look at the units:
Turn 8 (1590AD):
Nationalism for Guilds when guilds is 4 turns away? I can't do that trade, and I don't think it will help us much at this point either. The ONLY thing that will save us is peace, and Vicky still won't talk.
Just so you know, every turn I have checked to see if anyone would join, and its red for ALL civs.
Turn 9 (1595AD):
Still no peace available. I've never seen a civ hold out this long without even talking.
Turn 10 (1600AD):
Tons of cats, pillaging, and knights around...
Almost every city is building units, but what do you build when nothing works anyway?
Power:
Demos:
Comments:
- We're in serious trouble. Even if we survive we will have our hands full winning.
- There is an SoD in Antium, that will destroy at least one more city if it wants to. I don't see us losing too many cities just because of sheer distance - but don't quote me on that.
- We've been pillaged into the dark ages.
- We have outdated units (I'm sure vicky will have cavalry soon!)
- We are hopelessly behind in tech. Wouldn't be surprised to see grens and cannons soon.
- Our third culture city is gone - probably for the rest of the game.
Sorry to be so negative, but I've never seen a civ hold out this long. We can't do anything to
make her happy. And she is steamrolling us. We are friends with everyone else, but so is she (even if different religions).
I have no clue where to go from here.
The Hopeless Save:
View attachment 118536
Everything looks fine, we should be ok on units for now. I'll let the pikes finish, then mix in some maces and longbows if needed.
Turn 1 (1555AD):
We defend and win against a knight. We really need some attack units, Wish we had guilds. In fact, I change research to guilds. Why? Because three other civs have education and better tech output - very low chance of us getting liberalism before them - we still have 6 turns left on education alone. We could use the knights now to attack some of the pillaging units.
Turn 2 (1560AD):
Ok, I've been getting much better at war, but this is rediculous...
This is in addition to all the other units scattered abroad. Because we have no knights, I can't really attack out of the city. Farms are getting pillaged, culture defenses are getting reduced, and stacks of units keep coming. Lets hope I can get peace soon. Vicky still refuses to talk.
I make a crucial decision, that hurts but needs to be done. I switch to vassalage and theocracy.
Even if it only benefits new units, we can use all the xp we can get. I move the settlers and great artists out of the border cities in case it gets real bad.
Nice, it looks like Mansa wants a crack at the barbs too. My only hope is that they DO raze it and that it doesn't turn size 2. I'm not attacking just in case it grows and I can sneak it out from under their feet.
Turn 3 (1565AD):
Vicky still won't talk, but the SoD is still one tile away. If she won't do peace next turn, we're in for it.
Speaking of being in for it, Washington has Military Tradition, Constitution, and PP. Folks, thats called a runaway civ in my book.
Turn 4 (1570AD):
I lost count of the units that attacked, but we didn't lose any cities...yet. The barb city was razed. We got pillaged a ton - starting to look like a wasteland. How did all this happen? Its called being behind in tech because we started with 100% plains on a map that we had no choice of city placement. I love varients!!
There are still 4 health maces and 3 knights and an Xbow outside Antium - which only has one healthy longbow. Things aren't looking good for Antium...
Vicky still won't talk!! I didn't want to have to do it, but switch Rome off Taj. We need units bad!!
Turn 5 (1575AD):
Somehow, Antium survives despite bad pRNG. The bad news is that all thats left is one pikeman at 1.8. Even though we will have another longbow there next turn - we've all but lost antium.
Normally I don't get too upset when I lose a city, but I am now because there is no way to get it back. Our units are just too backward.
Vicky still won't even talk!! Ghandi is pleased with +8, but "doesn't like us enough" to attack vicky.
Now that I think about it, I should have went to no religion a few turns ago and maybe she would have talked, but no crying over spilled milk. Doh!! I pull my first true
of the turnset and forget that while in anarchy, I may not get the longbow that was due - that means we will definitely lose Antium.Turn 6 (1580AD):
And we lose Antium. Sorry. I tried everything I could, but there were just too many more advanced units. We needed knights to stave it off. Their knights were even killing our pikes - WTH.
I hope I'm conveying this well. I'm over the city now - but still worried for the rest of the empire. We were heavily fortified at Antium. The rest of our cities well, er, suck on defense.
Turn 7 (1585AD):
Lose a worker. I can't keep track of where they are coming from now. I'll have to move the workers indoors or far away.
A look at the units:
Turn 8 (1590AD):
Nationalism for Guilds when guilds is 4 turns away? I can't do that trade, and I don't think it will help us much at this point either. The ONLY thing that will save us is peace, and Vicky still won't talk.
Just so you know, every turn I have checked to see if anyone would join, and its red for ALL civs.
Turn 9 (1595AD):
Still no peace available. I've never seen a civ hold out this long without even talking.
Turn 10 (1600AD):
Tons of cats, pillaging, and knights around...
Almost every city is building units, but what do you build when nothing works anyway?
Power:
Demos:
Comments:
- We're in serious trouble. Even if we survive we will have our hands full winning.
- There is an SoD in Antium, that will destroy at least one more city if it wants to. I don't see us losing too many cities just because of sheer distance - but don't quote me on that.
- We've been pillaged into the dark ages.
- We have outdated units (I'm sure vicky will have cavalry soon!)
- We are hopelessly behind in tech. Wouldn't be surprised to see grens and cannons soon.
- Our third culture city is gone - probably for the rest of the game.
Sorry to be so negative, but I've never seen a civ hold out this long. We can't do anything to
make her happy. And she is steamrolling us. We are friends with everyone else, but so is she (even if different religions).
I have no clue where to go from here.
Spoiler :
The Hopeless Save:
View attachment 118536
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Nationhood, my dear firend, nationhood. Should have switched to Nationhood ... at time as difficult as this, experience is useless.
Also the settler should be moved just outside of the barb city so that when it is razed, we can move in and settle immediately.
Geez, we lost our cultual city ...
Things are looking all doomy and groomy ... I am afraid someone else might decalre on us too ...
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Also the settler should be moved just outside of the barb city so that when it is razed, we can move in and settle immediately.
Geez, we lost our cultual city ...
Things are looking all doomy and groomy ... I am afraid someone else might decalre on us too ...
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Maquis
King
Hmm, looks like I'm up... this isn't going to be fun...
I'll be playing later today... I have no idea how bad a shape we'll be in by the end of my turns...
I'll be playing later today... I have no idea how bad a shape we'll be in by the end of my turns...
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
Nationhood? That dosen't give experienced does it? I think you can draft units, but I still be we wouldn't have held the city more than another turn or two. Those knights were killing every unit type, including pikes.
We can still settle that barb city, but I was a bit preoccupied with keeping well established cities (I failed, of course).
I don't think anyone else will attack us now that we have no religion. It won't matter at all if we can't get peace soon.
We can still settle that barb city, but I was a bit preoccupied with keeping well established cities (I failed, of course).
I don't think anyone else will attack us now that we have no religion. It won't matter at all if we can't get peace soon.
Maquis
King
Ok, played my turns... and we're still alive!
First things first... the war is over! Thankfully peace cost us nothing... and I lost no other cities during my turns.
In fact I was able to found one more city (in place of the barb city).
Turnlog:
I did a lot of picking off of Vick'y units. I ended up getting rid of most of her pillaging knights, we finally got some better RNG for our pikes.
There was some heavy bombardment of Circi, but the defenses held. I was a little worried. Ok, this may be unpopular with the rest of the group, but in the heat of the battles, I sent one of our Artists to Circi, and set off the culture bomb... Vicky's units only had to go one square to get to the city, and I just had to give it some breathing room. This also had the efect of basically choking Neopolis to death. It only has one square to work, and is pretty well starved off.
Finally on turn six I got Vicky to talk. I got a peace treaty straight up.
I don't know if we want to try to retake Neopolis at some point, or just let it starve to death...
If we're still thinking culture for our victory, we'd have to pick a new 3rd city...
I'd vote for Pisea. It's third best now, and further off the front lines. I think we learned a lesson, do NOT use one of our border cities for the big 3.
Another think of note, one of Gahndi's cities is probably going to flip to us, soon:
Remember this, it has to be razed. I HOPE this does not give us a "you razed our city" diplomaic penalty...
Also, we now have open borders with everyone, save Vicky of course. We still have a couple cities with no religion, and I was hoping we could somehow get a 4th religion spread to us.
Needless to say, there is a LOT of fixing up of our lands that needs to be done. The workers have been going nonstop, and I started building more. Circi has nothing improved... needs to get worked to be able to grow again.
Roster:
player 1: Maquis --- just played
player 2: bobrath --- Up
player 3: Greyfox --- on deck
player 4: eektor ---
player 5: oldbustedjorn ---
And the save (Not quite so hopeless now)
edit: The save was too big to upload to the forum (over 500k ???) You can get it from here: VQ02 AD-1650.zip
First things first... the war is over! Thankfully peace cost us nothing... and I lost no other cities during my turns.
In fact I was able to found one more city (in place of the barb city).
Turnlog:
Spoiler :
I did a lot of picking off of Vick'y units. I ended up getting rid of most of her pillaging knights, we finally got some better RNG for our pikes.
There was some heavy bombardment of Circi, but the defenses held. I was a little worried. Ok, this may be unpopular with the rest of the group, but in the heat of the battles, I sent one of our Artists to Circi, and set off the culture bomb... Vicky's units only had to go one square to get to the city, and I just had to give it some breathing room. This also had the efect of basically choking Neopolis to death. It only has one square to work, and is pretty well starved off.
Finally on turn six I got Vicky to talk. I got a peace treaty straight up.
I don't know if we want to try to retake Neopolis at some point, or just let it starve to death...
If we're still thinking culture for our victory, we'd have to pick a new 3rd city...
I'd vote for Pisea. It's third best now, and further off the front lines. I think we learned a lesson, do NOT use one of our border cities for the big 3.
Another think of note, one of Gahndi's cities is probably going to flip to us, soon:
Remember this, it has to be razed. I HOPE this does not give us a "you razed our city" diplomaic penalty...
Also, we now have open borders with everyone, save Vicky of course. We still have a couple cities with no religion, and I was hoping we could somehow get a 4th religion spread to us.
Needless to say, there is a LOT of fixing up of our lands that needs to be done. The workers have been going nonstop, and I started building more. Circi has nothing improved... needs to get worked to be able to grow again.
Roster:
player 1: Maquis --- just played
player 2: bobrath --- Up
player 3: Greyfox --- on deck
player 4: eektor ---
player 5: oldbustedjorn ---
And the save (Not quite so hopeless now)
edit: The save was too big to upload to the forum (over 500k ???) You can get it from here: VQ02 AD-1650.zip
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
Whew! Good turns...
Has anyone else seen an AI hold out that long? I'm glad its turning around again.
Has anyone else seen an AI hold out that long? I'm glad its turning around again.
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
Turning around??? Hardly. We're in survival mode (imo)
I did hear war horns during my turnset... Fortunatly it was Saladin going after Gahndi (I have no idea why). I decided that since no one like Saladin and we were only getting Silver for Wine with him, that cancelling deals with him might make us less of an alternative. Two turns later he goes to war.
At the end of my turnset, we've got massive SoDs moving across/around/through our lands heading west to wipe out Saladin. Vicky has reduced her defenses in our city, Fredrick has two large groups heading west and it looks like Mansa Musa wants some too.
George went and emancipated his kids and that's causing some unhappy for us.
I traded techs with some of our backwards neighbors and managed to get Printing Press and Divine Right. Not the best trades, but it took some stuff off our path and improved relations with neighbors (checked to make sure none of them were hated by Vicky).
Switched civs near the start of my turns. OR/Bureac/Serf - faster improvements to help the pillaging, saved us some upkeep, and lets us spread bud again. I waited til all units were done being built tho. We may be a little understaffed on Military, but we need infrastructure badly. Plus our former southern city is still 0% English which means if we can keep the culture up... it might flip back to us - esp with the garrison gone.
Vicky is liked by most everyone... Gandhi is annoyed with her, but won't sign a defensive pact with us. If we can time it right, a conversion to Gahndi's state religion might help push him over the relationship edge with us... it will tick Vicky off something fierce tho - we are here worst enemy and she is furiuos with her. Next time we decide to take a piece of an enemy... lets make sure they are wiped out HARD. Taking just one town from Vicky and then having to pull for peace... we would have been better off returning the city to her!
Researching Chemistry to give us a chance against the next gunpowder based attacks (our castles and walls won't help as much in that case). Anything we can do to 1) prepare for the coming fight and 2) get someone on our side would be HUGE.
Dacca may or may not flip. Its borders popped so we lost the adjoining real estate.
The world as we know it...
Even zipped, the save is a bit too big. Anyone got suggestions on 1) reducing the file size and 2) where I can put it?
I did hear war horns during my turnset... Fortunatly it was Saladin going after Gahndi (I have no idea why). I decided that since no one like Saladin and we were only getting Silver for Wine with him, that cancelling deals with him might make us less of an alternative. Two turns later he goes to war.
At the end of my turnset, we've got massive SoDs moving across/around/through our lands heading west to wipe out Saladin. Vicky has reduced her defenses in our city, Fredrick has two large groups heading west and it looks like Mansa Musa wants some too.
George went and emancipated his kids and that's causing some unhappy for us.
I traded techs with some of our backwards neighbors and managed to get Printing Press and Divine Right. Not the best trades, but it took some stuff off our path and improved relations with neighbors (checked to make sure none of them were hated by Vicky).
Switched civs near the start of my turns. OR/Bureac/Serf - faster improvements to help the pillaging, saved us some upkeep, and lets us spread bud again. I waited til all units were done being built tho. We may be a little understaffed on Military, but we need infrastructure badly. Plus our former southern city is still 0% English which means if we can keep the culture up... it might flip back to us - esp with the garrison gone.
Vicky is liked by most everyone... Gandhi is annoyed with her, but won't sign a defensive pact with us. If we can time it right, a conversion to Gahndi's state religion might help push him over the relationship edge with us... it will tick Vicky off something fierce tho - we are here worst enemy and she is furiuos with her. Next time we decide to take a piece of an enemy... lets make sure they are wiped out HARD. Taking just one town from Vicky and then having to pull for peace... we would have been better off returning the city to her!
Researching Chemistry to give us a chance against the next gunpowder based attacks (our castles and walls won't help as much in that case). Anything we can do to 1) prepare for the coming fight and 2) get someone on our side would be HUGE.
Dacca may or may not flip. Its borders popped so we lost the adjoining real estate.
The world as we know it...
Spoiler :
Even zipped, the save is a bit too big. Anyone got suggestions on 1) reducing the file size and 2) where I can put it?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
You could mail it to me ... or get it up on a website ... say: www.freewebs.com If you chose to mail it to me, send me a PM and I'll let you know my mail address.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
The war with Vicky has really diminished half of our chances to bag a victory for this ... let's see how long we can survive and learn from here ...
good job, Maquis and Bobrath. I think the tech trading is necessary. When we are trailing, we have no choice but to trade at a slight disadvantage.
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good job, Maquis and Bobrath. I think the tech trading is necessary. When we are trailing, we have no choice but to trade at a slight disadvantage.
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GreyFox
Make it so ...
Got it ... playing in 7 hours.
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
I meant turning around as in, "we actually have a chance to survive now."
I agree with GreyFox that the Tech Trading was necessary even if we didn't get the "best" trade possible. If we can stay even in tech, we at least have a shot at victory. If not, the AI won't trade and probably will attack us because we're weak.
The question is, should we try to get the city back or just pick a new culture city? I would say pick a new city because even if we can take that city, we can't afford (or possibly survive) another war with vicky.
I agree with GreyFox that the Tech Trading was necessary even if we didn't get the "best" trade possible. If we can stay even in tech, we at least have a shot at victory. If not, the AI won't trade and probably will attack us because we're weak.
The question is, should we try to get the city back or just pick a new culture city? I would say pick a new city because even if we can take that city, we can't afford (or possibly survive) another war with vicky.
Maquis
King
I agree, that city is a loss, I have pretty much wrote it off already... our culture choked it to death, and I think it has already starved down to size 2. At this point, it will have lost all our culture (I'm sure it is 100% English by now)
I don't think that will happen? I know I picked the default in the game settings for "no flip after capture" so I think that means it can't flip back to us? Anyone else can confirm?
oldbustedjorn
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2006
- Messages
- 353
Yea, that would pretty much rule flipping out, but your right, it probably lost all of its culture when it was captured.
We should keep building/upgrading units here and there to keep each city well defended, but I don't see us attacking anyone (seriously anyway)...
We should keep building/upgrading units here and there to keep each city well defended, but I don't see us attacking anyone (seriously anyway)...
chriseay
The Master Trader
Maquis said:
Lurker Comment:
What that actually means is there is a certain amount of turns, I don't know how many, that a captured city cannot flip back to it's previous owner. Once those turns have elapsed the game no longer sees the city as captured, so it can once again flip. If I recall correctly, (it's only happened once for me), it takes a long time for the status to change from captured to normal.
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
ugh. Well, guess we have to go conquest then! Go go gadget .... everything!
On a sadder note, I'll be without Civ access until Friday. Still have forum access, but if my turn comes back up, I'll need to take a skip unless folks are willing to be generous!
On a sadder note, I'll be without Civ access until Friday. Still have forum access, but if my turn comes back up, I'll need to take a skip unless folks are willing to be generous!
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Conquest ... I don't even dare decalre war on Saladin... 
anyway report is ready ...
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anyway report is ready ...
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