VQ05 - The Conquistadors

ChrTh · Jun 10, 2006

Ok, I've started playing, and we got a Great Engineer. We have choices with it:
Golden Age with the Scientist
Build something

We just started Hollywood; don't think he'd finish it, but would get us most of the way there. What does everybody think?

GreyFox · Jun 11, 2006

With the largest empire, a golden age would serve us better I think. Anycase, we are just bidding our time to go for a time victory ... so it does not matter as much for the Hollywood. We just have to keep building troops and wait for the last 10 turns to capture the cities in New World. Not the most glorious win I'll be proud of, but a variant win nonetheless.

bobrath · Jun 11, 2006

Hollywood was started just to keep the border pressure on. Seriously doubt we'll get any cultural flip due to its completion. Let the city work on it... and worse case we can more cash for upgrading units.

ChrTh · Jun 11, 2006

VQ Update: Have played 7 turns, building up a lot of troops. I'll finish up later.

ChrTh · Jun 11, 2006

Turn 0 -- 1950 AD

100 turns to go. The New World is still not ours.

I find it bizarre Macau hasn't flipped yet.

I'm going to focus on building troops these turns.

Turn 1 -- 1951 AD

Barcelona: Buddhist Temple > Bomber
Seville: Tank > Bomber
Pasargadae: Market > Tank
Persepolis: Hindu Mandir > Airport
Susa: Castle > Marine
Tartar: Harbor > Library
Carib: Supermarket > Walls
Valencia: Barracks > Library
Jaen: Lighthouse > Granary

Sinan (Great Engineer born in Madrid). I start a Golden Age. Fission now due in 5 with +103gpt.

Turn 2 -- 1952 AD

Seville: Bomber > Bomber
Numidian: Broadcast Tower > Coal Plant
Circassian: Hindu Temple > Grocer
Carib: Walls > Castle
Salamanca: Broadcast Tower > Hindu Mandir
Khoisan: Infantry > Bomber
Logrono: Lighthouse > Granary

Christianity spreads in Pasargadae.

Palma is built on the west coast of North VQica.

Turn 3 -- 1953 AD

Seville: Bomber > Bomber
Toledo: Bank > Factory
Santiago: Broadcast Tower > Drydocks
Susa: Marine > Marine
Carib: Castle > Bomber
Valencia: Library > Coal Plant
Zaragoza: Broadcast Tower > Hindu Mandir

Judaism has spread in Madrid.

:coffee:

Awlil is down to 71% Malinese.

Turn 4 -- 1954 AD

Madrid: Airport > Broadcast Tower
Barcelona: Bomber > Grocer
Seville: Bomber > Fighter
Susa: Marine > Tank
Numidian: Coal Plant > Tank
Tartar: Library > Coal Plant
Vandal: Bank > Coal Plant
Carib: Bomber > Tank
Khoisan: Bomber > Grocer
Pamplona: Forge > Factory
Vitoria: Library > Granary
Jaen: Library > Harbor

Julius Caesar completes Apollo Program.

I turn up Science to 70% for a 1 turn finish (at -92 gpt)

Awlil is down to 62% ... :hmm:

we may be able to flip it after all!

Turn 5 -- 1955 AD

Fission comes in, start Rocketry (due in 5).

Seville: Fighter > Tank
Pasargadae: Tank > Bomber
Persepolis: Airport > Tank
Asturias: Barracks > Forge
Logrono: Granary > Library

Christianity spreads in Cordoba.

The only thing I can get from Mansa for Fission is Artillery; I don't think it's worth giving it to him. I'll try again in a couple turns and see if we have enough cash to bundle with Fission for Computers.

Turn 6 -- 1956 AD

Santiago: Drydock > Battleship
Susa: Tank > Tank
Vandal: Coal Plant > Tank
Carib: Tank > Tank
Khoisan: Grocer > Tank
Vitoria: Granary > Harbor
Valladoid: Theatre > Granary

Mansa completes a Casing x2
Beijing achieves Legendary Culture

Turn 7 -- 1957 AD

Madrid: Broadcast Tower > Bomber
Barcelona: Grocer > Infantry
Seville: Tank > Tank
Numidian: Tank > Tank
Valencia: Coal Plant > Airport (for being able to move troops from North continent to South)

Mansa completes a casing.

Turn 8 -- 1958 AD

Seville: Tank > Bomber
Pasargadae: Bomber > Drydock
Susa: Tank > Tank
Circassian: Grocer > Library
Vandal: Tank > Tank
Carib: Tank > Tank
Salamanca: Hindu Mandir > Buddhist Temple

Mansa completes a Casing

Turn 9 -- 1959 AD

Rocketry comes in. I start Satellites with a goal of Composites. Due in 7 (post-GAge numbers)

Madrid: Bomber > Gunship
Seville: Bomber > Apollo Program
Persepolis: Tank > Battleship
Numidian: Tank > SAM Infantry
Salamanca: Buddhist Temple > Factory
Murcia: National Epic > Factory
Khoisan: Tank > Gunship
Zaragoza: Hindu Mandir > Buddhist Stupa
Vitoria: Harbor > Barracks
Jaen: Harbor > Barracks

Sheesh, I didn't realize we didn't have Aluminum anywhere. I send a worker to get the one at Palma online. :crazyeye:

Turn 10 -- 1960 AD

Pasargadae: Drydock > Battleship
Susa: Tank > Gunship
Vandal: Tank > Gunship
Carib: Tank > SAM Infantry

Buddhism spreads in Palma

Ok, well, my turns are done. First the good news about the Power situation. Who's #1?

That's right. WE ARE.

Now, I haven't done any upgrades yet, because I've saving up cash, either to buy Computers (with Fission and money) or to upgrade with better troops.

The other good news: Awlil is down to 41% :thumbsup:

I've started the workers chopping near Awlil to get the Buddhist Stupa done faster in Zaragoza.

And of course the bad news: Macau absolutely refuses to flip.

90 turns left. Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/VQ05_AD-1960.Civ4SavedGame

Maquis · Jun 12, 2006

Roster Check:

GreyFox -- on deck
seezachswim --
Bobrath --
ChrTh -- Just went
Maquis -- UP!

I'll should be able to get this tonight. I'm interested to watch the situation @ Awlil. The fewer AIs we have to war, the better.

Not sure what it is with Macau?? It should have flipped long ago. Oh well, stay the course I guess.

Maquis · Jun 13, 2006

Kind of a different turnset, fighting a cultural war on several fronts. Anyways...

I check out the situation @ Macau... 0% Chinese and it hasn't flipped? Must just be a matter of time... Well to help out matters, I set Khoisan to Culture and hire an artist. Get a big culture party going nextdoor, and the neighbors will want to join... right??

A lot of my turns I felt like a big builder. I did build *some* military... but I guess I just felt like we were doing fine... I did try to shore up some defenses back on the mainland, as some of our cities were still being guarded by longbows and even archers. I upgraded a few of these, built a few troops as well.

I also tried turning up the pressure on Awlil. Once the Cathdral was built, I finished whatever cultural buildings were left, and then set the city to Culture as well. Awlil is losing tiles, and the percentage of the ity is decreasing as well.

So on turn 5... I get this popup:

Well I guess the Culture shindig did the trick!

And then comes my first big :smoked: of the turnset... my fat finger clicked the wrong button... I swear!

So now, east of Khoisan you'll find the wonderful city of "Nara Part III", the former city of Macau. But the big news is, We no longer have to attack Qin.

It's really not that bad... Still has two resources in the BFC... just a little overlap, but do we really care??

I'm sure bobrath will let me know what he thinks of the city though :rolleyes:

I did use the settler we had over there, and I built another. I think we might as well just shore up the last of the land... JC's got a boat with a settler headed somewhere... I think the only spot left is by Gorduim.

One settler is already there:

I would settle in place, but that'll be up to GreyFox.

I was also doing whatever to increase our population. There were a few seafoods not hooked up yet, so I built some boats to do so. There is a boat headed up to Gorduim to hook up the crabs for the new city.

The other settler, I made a total junk city on that island NW of Awlil. I doubt it will help the culture situation... but I guess any little population point will help. Here's the situaton at Awlil, down to 33%:

Ok, 80 turns left. I think we may have to watch Mansa, as he's the tech leader and has built a couple ship parts. I don't know if he would be able to do enough to launch, but it might get close.

As for our victory condition... I started the UN, it will be done in ~12 turns. I figured building it would give us the option of diplo Victory. I don't think this will hurt us in anyway, as I think we can vote ourselves in as Sec General. I'd like to see some discussion though. I think if anything, have it pre-built, but not finiish until we're sure that we can win.

If we can get Awlil to flip, JC is the only remaining obsticle. Qin and Mansa love us, So we'll get the vote of whichever one of them we're not running against.

The save:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/VQ05_AD-1970.Civ4SavedGame

GreyFox is up! bobrath is on deck, since seezachswim is still MIA...

Maquis · Jun 13, 2006

Sorry about the crappy images... imageshack was not resizing them for me, and resizing manually led to bad results :blush:

ChrTh · Jun 13, 2006

Re: The UN. If we're automatically going to be the SecGen, there's no reason not to finish it. It's not like we're required to have the Diplo Victory vote every time.

BTW, Qin will NOT vote for us for a Diplo Victory as it currently stands, so hopefully he'll be the opponent. I'm pretty sure Mansa wouldn't either at this point, but he's closer in relationship than Qin.

GreyFox · Jun 13, 2006

It's really not that bad... Still has two resources in the BFC... just a little overlap, but do we really care??

I'm sure bobrath will let me know what he thinks of the city though

I would tell you ... its crappy. Even I would have razed it ... in fact in my earlier post I advocated razing it ... Maybe you and bob consipred to let me have a taste of "Nara".

Anyway, good job on the cultural pressure ...

--

Question: why do we need a city East of Gordium? I would in fact add another crappy city at NE of Awil to further our cultural pressure on Awil. We definitely do not want to declare on Mansa if we can help it.

In fact, if Awil flips, we should decalre on JC sooner rather than later. So, its a good move to get the UN. We can win this before waiting the 80 turns out.

Got It, playing soon ...

GreyFox · Jun 13, 2006

ChrTh said:
BTW, Qin will NOT vote for us for a Diplo Victory as it currently stands, so hopefully he'll be the opponent. I'm pretty sure Mansa wouldn't either at this point, but he's closer in relationship than Qin.

I think its the other way round: Qin should vote for us ... (+10 right now at friendly), its Mansa that would not (+7, at pleased)

ChrTh · Jun 13, 2006

GreyFox said:
I think its the other way round: Qin should vote for us ... (+10 right now at friendly), its Mansa that would not (+7, at pleased)

You're right, Qin was lower during my turn, I didn't check again. If he is up to +10, he should vote for us.

Let's get Qin to attack JC with us. There's history there (Shanghai is Roman, you may notice).

bobrath · Jun 13, 2006

I'm not sure you can found a 3rd city NE of Awil... too close to our NW city I think.

Nara III..... why did they take away my ability to starve out my own cities??? :gripe:

GreyFox · Jun 13, 2006

Update: played 5 turns. too late, continue tomorrow.

Maquis · Jun 13, 2006

First off, really sorry about the new Nara. It truely was a mis-click... but I really didn't feel like replaying the last two turns to remedy that. I'll take the blame...

found a 3rd city NE of Awil... too close to our NW city I think.

I checked during my turns, and we can't put a city there anywhere. That's why I moved the settler off to Gordium, rather than disband him. If we're going for the UN vote, the extra couple pop from a city with Crabs won't hurt.

Let's get Qin to attack JC with us.

In fact, let's bribe Qin to attack JC first... then JC will get a little preoccupied with Qin, and we can take out that Roman city with less fear of retailiation.... sound good?

I'm all for taking JC's city as soon as Awlil flips to us. Basically, once it flips we take JC's city and end the game via diplo.

bobrath · Jun 13, 2006

BTW, was reading some of the Epic3 reports and noticed something interesting about population.

4 cities of 2 pop are fewer people then 2 cities of 4 pop (and even smaller then 1 city of pop 8). Its a sliding scale. SO taking time away from growing a city to build a settler is not in fact a faster way to grow your population for the UN vote.

GreyFox · Jun 13, 2006

bobrath said:
4 cities of 2 pop are fewer people then 2 cities of 4 pop (and even smaller then 1 city of pop 8). Its a sliding scale. SO taking time away from growing a city to build a settler is not in fact a faster way to grow your population for the UN vote.

Not unless you buy the settler ... (read: spoiler: I revolted us to UniSuff)

.

Plus that is too simplistic an argument: puttng aside you can build a settler in a non-growing city, you have to consider the production power, if you can produce settler in 2 turn in a size 25 city who would take 30 turns to grow, you still think its not worth it? How much time does it takes for a size 1 city to grow to size 2, 3, 4 while a size 18 city struggle to grow 1 pop?

When there is land, you almost always gain population faster by settling.

--

I'm not sure you can found a 3rd city NE of Awil... too close to our NW city I think.

I checked, we can settle the city on the NE island of Awil. #1 its not too close, 3 tiles away, and #2 even if it is only 2 tiles away, because the sea tile separates the city into two different landmass, the city-too-close rule does not apply.

--

In fact, let's bribe Qin to attack JC first... then JC will get a little preoccupied with Qin, and we can take out that Roman city with less fear of retailiation.... sound good?

I would in fact propse that we bride JC first .... :evil:

... to attack MM. That will slow down MM's launch ... yes, relationship with MM will hurt, but it has been deteriorating anyway.

Few turns later, bride Qin into war with JC. This will give Qin a chance to survive ... (JC's power graph is way above Qin's). Then, yet a few turns later we enter into the war, take out the Roman city (BTW, JC has tons of gunships, we have to start producing SAMs).

If by then, Awil has not flipped, declared on MM and take it by force. Not as if MM will vote us to a diplo win anyway. It will be an interesting 3 way war ... I'd always wanted to get into one

Then we conquer as much as we can and win diplomatically ... I think with our pop at 44% we should win with Qin voting for us ... (assuming the remaining 56% is equally distrbuted among the four, Qin should have 14%, that means we need an extra 4% --- diplo win is 62% of votes, right?)

--

ChrTh · Jun 14, 2006

If we have JC attack MM first, keep an eye on the Awlil-Circei situation. If Circei falls to Awlil, we'll only have to attack MM, if Awlil falls to Circei we'll only have to attack JC. In either case, that's only 1 war declaration we need to make. Of course, that presumes the AI fights it out in South VQica.

GreyFox · Jun 14, 2006

A builders turns ... it was so boring.

First, I revolted us to UniSuff. Why are we still in HR is a mystery. I also founded Almeria at where Maquis suggested:

Then Louis came cancelling deals ...

I was thinking, okay, good. Does that means war? Hell, I waited and I waited. Nope, Louis is a big coward.

Decided to test Qin out ...

Nah, too expensive.

3 more years of boring builds, including Leon, the crappy city to assert cultural pressure on awil:

and finally, I decided enough is enough. I shall add some spices.

Your hands are busy??? Hmmm ... exactly who are you planning to attack? Or are you preparing to launch?

Decided not to sit waiting to find out ... I may have turned into stone or bored to death by the time the cowardly AI makes any action.

Dail our buddy Qin up ...

Okay, 1 tech less. He must have learnt Communism in the interrim. Deal taken ... and the world plunged into war!

Ironically, in the same year, we have our United Nation:

I tot UN was built after the World War, not at the start of one!

Then Awil finally go into revolt ....

Ssssweeeeeeeet!

Seeing that flipping Awil is now a real possibility, I dialed JC up ...

Heh, no use trying to cover your head with your hand ... its still gonna end up on a pole!

Same year, the combined bombardment of 2 battleships, 1 destroyer, 1 frigate (yes, all 3 typoes of vessel, I am a strong believer in Combined Arms!!!!!), artillery and bombers, the defenses of Circei is reduced to nothing. Then, same year, our tanks start rolling ....

One down, all that is left is to wait for Awil to flip while assimilating JC's cities.

Here is the situation at the old world:

JC has a sizable force in Shanghai, but we wshould be able to decimate it. Suggest capturing it and gift it to the Chinese (serve us better then to keep it, since it will starve with Chinese culture).

Defense in the other city is laughable.

Voting wise, we have 483 out of 837 votes.

That is not enough for Diplo victory. 483/837 is only 57%. We need 62% to win at diplo, so I suggest we keep capturing cities from JC while waiting for Awil to flip ... buy the cultural buildings in those cities that are asserting pressure Awil to hasten its flip ... once we (Qin and us) hit 62%, we can trigger the diplo win. If Awil is ours by then, all is good and well. Else, simply attack MM and capture Awil one turn after we start the Diplo Victory votes. Done correctly, we should have won before MM can retaliate.

>>>> The Save (1980AD) <<<<

My boring record of builds, if anyone is interested:

Spoiler :

ChrTh · Jun 14, 2006

Diplo Victory requires 518 of 837 votes, so we're short 35. We're going to have to take out about a 3rd of JC to get that.

Qin will trade us Fascism, Plastics, WM, and 420 Gold for Medicine and Fission. Since Mansa already has Fission, I recommend we make this trade.

We can also trade Medicine to Mansa for Computers, WM, and 60 gold. Since Qin will probably trade Medicine to Mansa anyway, we should probably do this as well. It'll save us 3 turns and allow us to start Composites for Modern Armor or Robotics for Mech Inf.

I doubt Awlil will flip this time, but we may be lucky.

VQ05 - The Conquistadors

Happy Yule!

Make it so ...

Emperor

Happy Yule!

Happy Yule!

King

King

King

Happy Yule!

Make it so ...

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

Emperor

Make it so ...

King

Emperor

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

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