VQ06b - Emperor just win!

[namliaM]

I took a peek in the "other" thread. We are all going to end up Bhudist (if it ever spread to us... Do we have open borders with JC and Cyrus BTW?) and they are all Hindu... Wow...

Them have a tech lead over us currently but we are in better shape I think. IF we can take (must take) Turfan we will have 2 happy faces more
And Wine to come...Thats 3, meaning we can DOUBLE our populous

I do suggest trading us a happy source... This will help bigtime...

Back on topic...
Do we want to take that barb town? I would love to have it 1 West from that position to work more water tiles in the future...

Turfan... I think it is HUGE if we can take that even with just our last Axe if we need to... HUGE I say... If we can take it .... Would it be smart to leave those remaining cottages after all???
To bad I only realize this now and not earlier...

 

[armstrong]

Okay, consider this a got it, though I'm going to spend a bit digesting the save

Actually, I don't see a save... what kind of knucklehead kidnaps a save?

Just from reading what's going on, things are a lot tougher than Monarch... but I feel like we're at least hanging in there. That being said, Julius is light years ahead of us, and I don't know what we could research to get techs from him. If we did this again, I think I'd make it a #1 priority to use burn some kind of GP for a tech to trade.

Then again, maybe this pointy stick thing might pay off for us...

 

[Cosmichail]

We are all going to end up Bhudist (if it ever spread to us

That would be nice but we lack Priesthood to build temples

Do we have open borders with JC and Cyrus BTW?)

That's an affirmative SIR.....

Turfan we will have 2 happy faces more

Good idea Karakorum probably too tough although that ivory would be nice down the road for War elephants since we lack horses.

I do suggest trading us a happy source... This will help bigtime...

We have an extra corn one at CH and Beshbalik and eventually fish too with Okinawa/Paris borders

Do we want to take that barb town?

Can we afford to?

To bad I only realize this now and not earlier...

hindsight is 20/20

what kind of knucklehead kidnaps a save?

D'OH

Forget tech race we have to do some serious razing I think....but that's just an opinion. We don't want to be up against macemen/knights with axes. It would be nice to get those horses from Khan too.

NamliaM - I peeked and they are doing good in the tech race having Alpha soon. But what is there to trade when the other civs are eons ahead. We must find another way and I think that is a numbers game. Kylearan proved that an technology inferior military can beat an advanced one with sheer numbers. The key is lots and lots of suicide cats... and good promoted soldiers. I don't trust Julius at all and he can one minute be your buddy and next come at you with SOD. (having same religion would help) I feel we should destroy Khan and consider doing the same to JC before he gets too advanced. I have been reading Emperor strategies all over the forums and razing seems to be a big part of it for some not all.

Here's a question:

Religion spreads via trade networks such as road/rivers. If we are at war, are the roads connecting us to JC/Cyrus disabled (trade network) since they are Khan's?
Won't converting, once it happens also help with happiness?

 

[GreyFox]

First, the roster:

Roster
-- GreyFox == the official lucky fox ...
-- namliaM == ITS MY TURN TO KIDNAP THE SAVE
-- armstrong == UP for a taste of being kidnapped
-- eektor == Hoping to play before OoP
-- Cosmichail == No chance to play if people keep holding save hostage

Now that is out of the way, comments:

- What's up with all these peeking? We don't need bloddy no peek!

- pillaging cottages: again, pillage them as long as they are hamlets or cottages. We need money to fund research.

- We are connected to the trade route as long as you see the "connected to trade route" sign in the score list. Don't need to worry too muich about how the game construct the trade route.

- Don't raze the barb city ... no please don't. Keep it. If we can't afford to keep it, then leave it alone. Consider it training ground, XP-generating facility, whatever, just don't go razing city for nothing.

- Everything we do, we must do it for a reason. Keep focus. The more cnventional way of beating Emperor is to command a bigger empire than the AI so that you can produce and research as fast (if not faster) than they can. The other way is of-course to raze through the world and win conquest. Either way, we need the Maths and construction to have the cats soon ... which is why I insist (but apparently nobody listen) on maths. Alpha do us no good at this point.

 

[namliaM]

*chit* *@#$%^&*#$%^&##%^$%$^&#%*

Not again? The save

Yes I would too leave the barb city (for now) but visit it every now and then with a sword to pick up the XP...

I see you grey on Math and construction, but thats quite some beakers... I think/Know we will get there faster by detouring on Sailing. This enables Okinawa and Copper City to work 3 water tiles = 12 more coin
After sailing I guess we go for Math => Construction => Currency?

edit: even if we raze (and potentially resettle?) our land/continent the others will be to Spaceship before we get to Caveliers....
We seriously need those happy faces... DESPERATLY even. I think we MUST trade pigs or something NOW with JC and CYRUS. We have a huge surplus of Health and a cap on Happies... So lowering the surplus and Adding on to the cap is only going to help us....

 

[GreyFox]

Finally, the save is released

On second thought, I take back my gripe on Alphabet. We should learn it ASAP if what I think is correct -- alphabet is needed for us to extort tech from KK.

Agree with namliaM's assesment on making the trade with JC for his dye. We need the happiness, and the trade may cause buddhism to spread to us.

--

 

[armstrong]

Okay, this is my official "got it," but looking at the save... KK only has 6 in Karakorum (and one is a chariot & one's a cat)... we have 13 axers+swords. Do y'all mind if I just rush it? I think we have enough cash to keep our economy afloat until we build some cottages with one more city.

-- we have 4 coastal cities -- if we whip lighthouses there once Sailing comes in we can prop up this economy...

KK won't give us open borders after we settle, so that barb town is our's whenever we want it - JC/Cyrus won't take a city that far away.

After Sailing -> Alphabet for tech research, I think that'd put us in a decent position. We can trade a Deer/Corn to JC for Dye, and hopefully get Monarchy for KK after we get Alphabet... Paris is at 10 Health > 3 sickness. With 7 cities (8 with barb), we wouldn't be in a bad position at all.
7-8 cities in 300 AD is "capital" in my playbook

What do y'all think? I probably won't have time to play tomorrow, so plenty of time for discussion

My current game plan is:

1. Capture Karakorum.
2. Focus on Research (hire two scientists somewhere w/library, or whip one in a high food city)
3. Research Sailing -> Alphabet

Any complaints?

Also, neither KK nor Cyrus has Alphabet yet. So we have trade material if we can get it fast.

 

[Cosmichail]

... KK only has 6 in Karakorum

(is there an echo here)

It's down to 6 or so since 1 or 2 archers/settler took off somewhere

posted earlier

Actually I think Karakorum will be easier to take than Turfan since it's on a hill and has archers with CD1 defense and a couple of axes well upgraded. Turfan at 50% defense and Karakorum at 40% and no archers with CD1 better choice and Ivory would help. Guess what, if anything with camps gets pillaged we cannot fix it. (we don't have hunting)

After checking with treasury (wow those guys are worried) unit maintenance is at 14 gpt (for all) so with 8 units in the field it cannot cost -2gpt per turn/per unit. What is hurting us too is city maintenance OS -2 Besh -4 (ouch) CC -2 CH -1 for a total of -9 gpt. We need courthouses soon too. Paris is +2 and Okinawa is 0. Julius will trade but not for corn for pigs/wheat or deer.

If we drop to 0% research we are at -3gpt. Sailing should make a difference though. In order to keep earning money we should think about razing a few cities for coin. Maybe even think about finishing Khan off to get rid of we want to join our motherland. We have enough units and not much else to build in our cities. We might consider getting a galley too to check out land mass as NamliaM has noted.

I hope we could extort a few techs from Khan get peace (however by the time we can get Alpha it could be a while) and consider going after him again although JC has -1 you declared on our friend. We should watch JC too. BTW we are 7th in power YUK.....(wow even with all those units running around) Our pop is kind of low too.

I personally don't whip a lot and more inclined to chop. Math was a good choice and we should research soon too to get cats (construction) and 50% on chops.

Last but not least Parthenon and most of the wonders are built in a galaxy, far, far away so we wouldn't get anymore through conquest.

 

[GreyFox]

Looks good, armstrong, just remember to post the save this time

If you manage to capture Karakorum, the gold pillages should enable you to run 100% research for quite some time ... remember to do just that ... hasten research of alphabet as fast as you can, we need to decalre peace soon ... WW is going to cripple us very soon.

I suspect eektor or cosmichail will have something to say about you not being able to play even tomrrow ...

--

 

[namliaM]

We can march on Karakorom, not a problem there. BUT we need turfan period.
There is NO stopping untill we have it. Not taking Turfan (at what ever losses) will cost us 2!!! Luxury resource ... 2 !!! On average that will be a 60% or so increase in population and thus a noticable increase in unit support and more coin from working either Water or Cottages. Both go toward giving us better research...

So if we go on Karakorum I think we ATLEAST need Turfan as well....

 

[eektor]

Since tomorrow is father's day, I understand not being able to play then.

You know, there could be a good chance that if Karakoam is taken first, Turfan will become the capital and it will be harder to capture. If we strike on Karakoam we might lose most of our military to take out Turfan right afterward. If it was me though I would try to take out Karakoam though. The losses will help our money situation too.

 

[Cosmichail]

Not taking Turfan (at what ever losses) will cost us 2!!! Luxury resource ... 2 !!! On average that will be a 60% or so increase in population and thus a noticable increase in unit support and more coin from working either Water or Cottages. Both go toward giving us better research...

Totally agree.

We will probably loose 4-5 or more axes in the process.

@NamliaM Was there no opportunity to do it during your turn???

We should think about getting to Khan's strategic resources and pillaging them to stop him from sending Keshik's/axes/swords. JC has horseback riding and friends with Khan so it's possible that he has it. Keshiks will provide a challenge and allow him to strike deep within our territory. Beshbalik (if axe is removed for attack) will be vunerable with 1 warrior. Archers would be nice and so would spearman.

Where are Khan's horses?? All our cities have 1 warrior and if a couple of galleys show up with troops we are vunerable. CC is building library for 1 beaker so it would remain that way??? Wouldn't it better to build more axes??
Swords aren't great in the field defensive wise. A couple of spearman in the stack would help if Khan has Keshiks now.

With a trade for dye with JC Paris would have 5 pop happiness. It's at three so some time to grow there. Maybe a spot for a scientist.

@Eektor so true.....

We had a chance to strike at Karakorum or Turfan but I can see the need to pillage for coin. Both cities will be tough so cats will be needed sooner than later which you mentioned earlier.

 

[namliaM]

Totally agree.

We will probably loose 4-5 or more axes in the process.

@NamliaM Was there no opportunity to do it during your turn???

Not really but also, I only realized this AFTER my turnset when I (re-)spotted the Culture of turfan blocking the gold and the Plantation present.

I think we want our swords up there for better chances. And keep our (promoted) Axes for the clean up...

We should think about getting to Khan's strategic resources and pillaging them to stop him from sending Keshik's/axes/swords.

IIRC KK doesnt have horses on his own turf... He is trading them
I think we allready pillaged (atleast 1) Iron... Swords are useless vs our upgraded axemen. As long as he doest send (like he did with me) 2 chariots/Kesheks with an Axe trailer... Any attack vs our promoted axemen are doomed to fail. We need to cover our inexperienced swords tho...

JC has horseback riding and friends with Khan so it's possible that he has it. Keshiks will provide a challenge and allow him to strike deep within our territory. Beshbalik (if axe is removed for attack) will be vunerable with 1 warrior. Archers would be nice and so would spearman.

Chit didnt think of Spearman either... Tho we need... TADA... Hunting which we DO NOT have

Our defence is pittyful to say the least, we need to up the defence atleast at Old Saria and "our nice 5th city" you know KK's previous 2nd nice city ???
Those two are easiest to strike at and in my experience on the lower levels, AI strike more often on their own cities (if you have them) then on the opponents cities. Nearly no matter what.

Any galley should be spotted pretty soon and can be anticipated with Paris and Coper City are building mostly units now.
The lib I put up there because we allready have so many units and we need some science soon as well. + IIRC i whipped something there and it needs some time to recoup....

Where are Khan's horses?? All our cities have 1 warrior and if a couple of galleys show up with troops we are vunerable. CC is building library for 1 beaker so it would remain that way??? Wouldn't it better to build more axes??
Swords aren't great in the field defensive wise. A couple of spearman in the stack would help if Khan has Keshiks now.

With a trade for dye with JC Paris would have 5 pop happiness. It's at three so some time to grow there. Maybe a spot for a scientist.

@Eektor so true.....

We had a chance to strike at Karakorum or Turfan but I can see the need to pillage for coin. Both cities will be tough so cats will be needed sooner than later which you mentioned earlier.

Pillage coin is nice, but if we capture the city quickly we will catch up if we have some hamlets (or better) allready in place...
Like I said allready, what ever we do, when ever we do it... DO NOT pillage that Plantation... Pretty please with sugar on top?

Edit: Oh and BTW.... We currently dont have the luxury for Cats and Dogs... We will have to make due without them and simply rain down only dogs. ie. sacrifice an inexperienced sword or Axe and clean up with a promoted one... Cats are 30+ turns away I think... going Sailing=> Alph => Math => Construction.

 

[Cosmichail]

@NamliaM

Again agree with your points

1. Tech path is good
2. No kitties just woof woof's
3. We have to figure what Khan is trading to JC for horses and break that

Hunting is only 2 research and be worth gold against chariots/keshiks.

Maybe we could slip that in to add to stack for protection.

Agree swords vunerable need to join stack and will prove to be better at attacking Turfan.

Once we take Turfan place a unit on plantation (even a couple) for protection. (spears since we can see foot soldiers coming but horsies fast)

DO NOT pillage that Plantation... Pretty please with sugar on top?

and a bag of dropjes......

EDIT:

Our defence is pittyful to say the least, we need to up the defence atleast at Old Saria and "our nice 5th city" you know KK's previous 2nd nice city ???

Agree here especially and spearman would be prudent since again horsies move fast and we don't want to loose SH or deer/copper. *&^% pillagers.......

 

[namliaM]

Hunting is only 2 research and be worth gold against chariots/keshiks.

"only" 2 turns, but a good portion of beakers I think. Throwing those beakers towards Alphabet would be my way... Then once alpha comes in Hopefully we can pick up some great many "basic" techs in the treaty. Tho on the otherhand... Maybe KK will research Alpha for us

Once we take Turfan place a unit on plantation (even a couple) for protection. (spears since we can see foot soldiers coming but horsies fast) and a bag of dropjes......

Plantation, yes protect it with your life... That one plantation = GOLD
@Dropjes...

Agree here especially and spearman would be prudent since again horsies move fast and we don't want to loose SH or deer/copper. *&^% pillagers.......

SH? WTH = SH? pls ?? ASAP?? You really lost me...
Hunting is rather high on the list tho due to the camps and the resulting Good possibility we can pick that up for peace

Edit: Our goal should be some kind of military balance...
#1 Cats to complement the Dogs *miauw*
#2 Courthouses
2.5 more meaning Monarchy
#3 New military to face Cyrus or JC, Crossbows?

 

[armstrong]

Okay, I think I get a good sense of where we all stand. Fighting Keshiks without Spearmen is freakin' crazy, but it looks like we might need to tough it out until Alphabet.

I'm not going to be able to play for ~24 more hours unfortunately - got a ball game to go to here. If anyone is really itching to keep this going at a fast clip, feel free to bump me a spot

 

[Cosmichail]

SH? WTH = SH? pls ?? ASAP??

Pardon moi NamliaM it's Stonehenge D'OH.......

Maybe Eektor wants to go since he's up next.(after armstrong EDIT) I think the next set is a difficult one.

mmmmmm dropjes (having a Homer Simpson moment again - only about 10 a day) (oh no you got me going to the Dutch store now...)(for our English speaking players dropjes is "Dutch Licorice salty")

EDIT again:

Edit: Our goal should be some kind of military balance...
#1 Cats to complement the Dogs *miauw*
#2 Courthouses
2.5 more meaning Monarchy
#3 New military to face Cyrus or JC, Crossbows?

Good goals sound direction...

 

[namliaM]

Salt or sweet dont matter, Drop is one of my *ahem* "weaknesses"
You know offcourse that drop is known to be less than good for a man's potency...

Honing drop (Hunny? You know the stuff bee's make)
Munt drop (drop looking like Coins)
Boerderij (Farm animals)
(Drie)Dubbel zout (rather extreem salty that makes your face mush together)
And more... much more

Now I got myself going and its saturday night, everything is closed for the (fathersday) weekend

 

[Cosmichail]

OH noo I got to go now.....(to the Dutch store)

NamliaM Doesn't the automaten have them or is that in ancient times when I lived there.....

good for a man's potency...

So it's good right eat more that suits me.....

EDIT: Just a little joke for Father's Day since some of you are already celebrating.....

What do sex and shopping have in common?

Women can shop for hours men can only shop for about 5 minutes.......... HAHAHAHAHA

 

[namliaM]

Hehehe... 5 minutes? I take 2 minutes to shop... to bad about the ride we have to take down town taking 1:50

You left out the "less than" part