WangKon (EC)

[Gumbolt]

Congratulations to PNPdredd who has won this round. Here is the winning save to be used for the next round:

PNP Dredd save

The next round will be played over the next 4-5 days with voting over Sunday-Monday. The round will finish Saturday 1800hr GMT.The round will be played from 400ad-1100ad. Lets get playing people.

Please ensure when you post save you rename save with your name.

Round 0: The starting save -
Round 1: 4000 BC - 1500 BC- Completed
Round 2: 1500 BC - 400 AD- Completed
Round 3: 400 AD - 1100 AD- Playing
Round 4: 1100 AD - 1500 AD - upcoming
Round 5: 1500 AD - 1700 AD - upcoming
Round 6: 1700 AD - 1820 AD - upcoming
Round 7: 1820 AD - 2050 AD - upcoming

 

[TheBoboni]

I just wanted to apologize for not voting - I was away on a sudden work trip and didn't have any kind of Internet connection. Congrats to pnpdredd

 

[lymond]

This was definitely a "hunker-down" round. 400AD to 1000AD always seems like a short round. Not sure how many turns it is.

here we go

Spoiler :

The main goal in this round for me was to finish some key infra in the major cities, try to tech as fast as possible by building wealth/research when I could with the intent to get Optics soon and head to Lib, and get out a few more cities. I whipped minimally except in the new cities and an occasional whip in the hammer poor cities when the citizens cost was those on mines/windmills so as to not whip off cottages.

First priority city locations were the marble/horsie island and the rice/clams/wine to the north. I wanted to make the latter my Moai city as I didn't like Hyangsan for this and Uban (sp?) will have many more water tiles to work.

I definitely liked going for Compass but made a quick detour to Alpha as I thought this was important and should have been teched earlier in iso. I wanted to be able to build research in cities like Seoul that really had nothing to build at the moment.

Optics came in 610AD and I immediately queued up a couple of Caravels to send east and west. Found Izzy first and then Alex to the east. 2nd Caravel hit Joao to the west a little later. I held off a few turns on tech trading until I found a few more civs, but actually started trading once I found Pacal and before I found Vicky. No worst enemies between those AIs found so I traded, but, of course, when I found Vicky she was worst enemies with alex so we did not hit it off well. All AIs were behind in techs or barely on par like Joao, except for Pacal who is a real concern as he is teching furiously as usual. However, it appears that he is not rushing to Lib, so we may still get it. I expect to take Astro with that unless another tech seems better for trading. (I did get the circum bonus)

I performed a few key trades with various AIs to pick up techs I didn't have yet like archery, HBR, Feud, etc. Unfortunately, Pacal has a lot of good techs but I have nothing to trade for - I think that will change with Edu and Lib in place. I thought I teched well, but I expect that some here will actually reach Lib or at least have Edu and some Unis in place. I really wish I could figure out how to make up the difference.

I built the Nat Epi in Seoul once my marble city was settled, but I'm think Paris would be a better GP farm ultimately. However, Paris could be a great production city or even cap as well. Regardless, with Bureau and windmills, I think I can still run several GPs in Seoul as I have been doing.

Oh, I was a bit perturbed to find that I could not kick off a GA when I popped the first GP in this round. Apparently, there was a prior golden age. I wanted a GA for a switch to Bureau/HR but had to burn 2 turns instead.

I'm building one Settler to grab the clams in the south. There are 2 other possible city sites I think with the clams to the far west and another spot north of Pusan for another cottage city with the FP tile and rivers - overlapping with Paris. I may actually want to settle that one first.

So I guess the question begs which VC to go for here. I think there are a few options with Space being a strong won or maybe Diplo if relgions ever spread. I'm thinking a more peaceful approach is in order with Wang bu t not sure. What I do know is I will need to start unit pumping soon before astro hits to get the power rating up a bit.

 

[pnp_dredd]

Spoiler :

This is a save to choose if you want to head the military route. I've got Astro, so we're ready to start building an o'seas attacking force. Only Pacal and Izzy have CS, so Macemen/Cats/Knights should take down 1, maybe 2 enemies.

Built some more workers, spammed cottages. Teched Astro after Optics. Teched Monarchy once I traded for the prereqs.
745 Met Izzy.
775 Met Alex
~800 meet everyone else, traded for some techs.
835 complete Monarchy
circumnavigated
1000 completed Astronomy
1000 both Confu and Budd spread to me on this turn.
262/turn sustainable, and growing.

Pacal's got CS and Philo. I've no idea how close he is to Liberalism.

Tech trades:

City builds:

 

[kossin]

@pnp
The round is until 1100AD, not 1000AD. You got some turns left!

 

[Gumbolt]

Yeah lets not give Lymond an easy round by missing 10 turns or he will be singing his praises and asking for more awards.

PNP Dredd could get the shortest round award.

 

[pnp_dredd]

right! I knew that! of course I did!

 

[Norvin_Green]

Time did seem to fly by.

Spoiler :

Teched to Optics, upgraded 2 triremes and met the neighbors. Got circum nav bonus. Built 2 more cities. After Optics>Currency>Poly>Mono>CoL>CS>Paper>Edu on the way to PP. Traded to acquire Feudalism, Construction, Aesthetics, Monarchy and Alphabet.
Felt more focused this round. Stuck to the plan. Not saying it was a good plan but at least I had a direction.

 

[pnp_dredd]

with the extra 10 turns:

Spoiler :

Vicky capitulated to Alex. Religions spread around a bit. Completed lots of Courthouses.

Then Alex declared on Izzy, despite them sharing a religion. Looks like they're probably good targets for any military goals.

Much the same as last update, but we have currency, CS and most of Construction.

390/turn sustainable

 

[kossin]

@pnp

Spoiler :

Interesting save. Better watch out for Alex. Did you check the price to stop the war with Vicky? It might have been worth it.

Just for comparison's sake, I played yesterday with your 1000AD save til 1100AD. My main comment is you're not whipping enough - I was able to sustain science over 500 at the same point. After that, some tile improvements are questionable but things look good in any case.

@Norvin_Green

Spoiler :

After beelining Optics, it's usually better (if you can open borders to get trade routes) to get Astro than research all the way back up to Education right away (you can sometimes trade for a lot of it). You get an insta increase to commerce and get resource deals available. Allows to focus cities on production buildings to whip universities later on.

This path was showcased in the Napoleon Cookbook (the first hosted by Gumbolt) and more often than not it wins out I believe.

It's always harder to get a new start at one point in the game, I'll give you that. (Capital move was intended in pnp's save but he didn't point it out in his report).

@Lymond

Spoiler :

Similar to Norvin, this one screamed for Astro beeline. Slow-building a settler and stagnating the best science city [capital move] isn't a great idea imo. Orleans might be a better choice for example. I'd try to delay Al's conquering and try to befriend him a bit... he looks like the biggest threat.

 

[lymond]

@kos

Spoiler :

yes, the swami is back!

Yeah, I was a bit unsure about the settler. I agree that building it there is questionable but I really had nothing else to build. Really, I wonder if I should have even bothered with a settler at the moment and just focus on my push to Lib for now. Orleans has decent hammers so I want to use that to build wealth then build a settler after Lib to fill out the isle.

So with Astro, the point here is primarily to get the trade routes up asap and increase commerce. I see the value of that but had planned to take astro with Lib which should be in soon. So winning Lib and taking Astro is less important than early Astro? Pacal is a real tech monster and I figure he'll get Lib if I change course. I did consider bee-lining astro earlier though. I guess I should have just gone straight to it after Optics.

Are you referring to Alex?

 

[kossin]

@lymond

Spoiler :

Yes, Al = Alexander. Orleans is about to hit its happy cap which is why I used it as an example. You can do that somewhere else of course, just not in your best science city!

 

[lymond]

ha...sorry, I misread about Al...suffering from a snow "white-out" here

 

[Norvin_Green]

@ kossin

Spoiler :

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I wasn't sure whether getting saewon's or astro & observatories would be better. I tend to be a lousy trader as I often don't think ahead very well as to where I want to end up.

 

[CBPE]

Spoiler :

Finished Compass/Optics and started to meet our friends.
Done some trades, I've thought that maybe it's not too late for liberalism.

After Civil Service I revolted to Bureaucracy and Caste sistem to run some scientists and try to bulb some tech.

Unfotunately, Seoul provided this:

I didn't use yet, I wonder about which could be his better use at this point.

I have to research Philosophy manually, Education is finished.
Probably this was a mistake: i have run few scientists (I had the cottage tiles to work) and having no whipping I've build not enough infra.
I.E., I have to return to slavery to whip the UB now.

Joao begged for Civil Service but I refused: it can comprimise our relationship but he's a great friend of Pacal which is my rival on Lib race. I've thought he'll quickly trade it with him.

Instead, I've agreed with Alex' demand to join war: Victoria was small and couldn't hurt me everyway (at 1100 AD she remains with only ine city).

Empire:

Only now I'm able to settle the 12th city 'cause I was very unlucky with all those damned barbarian galleys!

I'm running about 230 BPT stopping to build wealth for the UB.

Probably not a good idea: maybe it's better to run wealth, win lib-race, return to slavery and whip them....

 

[Glansmannen]

Spoiler :

Ok.
Finished Optics then went Alpha - Currency - Astronomy - CoL - CS - Paper and just started Education.

Whipped out a Caravel and headed east which turned out to be a good direction, 715AD I find Issy. She demands Metal Casting which I at this point refuses to give her.

Then start trading, Compass for Medidation, Poly, Archery and 20 gold.

Later I meet Victoria and Alexander, whom are at war. Don't wanna be caught up in the middle so I continue focus my trading on Issy.

Built some cities, started with the one up north for the wine.

Trades Pristhood from Issy for 115 gold.

Next turn trade Machinery to Issy for Monotheism, Monarchy and 20 gold.

Switch to Hereditary Rule for additional happiness, now just focus on growing and working those cottages. The year is 790AD.

Alex tries to trade 60 gold for Priesthood. Well, I dont need 60 gold so no.

Then I built research in every city and binary researched Astro which is in at 970. Open borders with everyone which gave me a nice commerceboost.

Popped a GP in Seoul in 920. Keep him for, whatever, I don't know.

I get CS in 1040 and switched to Bureaucracy. This is the year I also meet Pacal. Relations are ok, but not the best. Still, we have time to work on them for a while.

In 1060 I meet Joao and OB with Pacal (which I forgot) and Joao.

Judaism is in our lands by 1070, no thanks, everyone we have met so far is either Buddist och Hindu.

After all the trading with Issy she is still not happy, she demands Optics which I give her and she is now at Pleased.

By the year 1090 the English are destroyed by Alexander which seems to be the biggest threat. Maybe in the future we could get something going between Issy and him. Not sure about their relation at the moment. Well, that's about it. A round full of happenings.

At last a question about the island to the south. That damn peak messes it up right? You can't hook up both the marble and the horses?

The Land

The resources

Techs

Demo

This close to circumnavigate! Yeeey!

 

[kossin]

@Glansmannen

Spoiler :

0 whip anger? Nice tech path however, I like it. What's the first priority in a new city? Food -> focus on it.
In coastal cities, it's been shown Granary first is better than lighthouse if you whip (unless Organized or rush buying).
It was hard to see the intended capital move by pnp. Since Alex is so big, I'd try to be his friend.
By fiddling with your save, I improved bpt to 400 stable. Check trades/micro. (If you whipped more, you'd be over 500 already)

@CBPE

Spoiler :

Bold move declaring war on Vicky, it's actually the right decision. Alex is big as you can see and you want to befriend him at all costs.
Also didn't see the capital move and avoided Astronomy despite researching all pre-requisites.
I don't think Caste System is giving you anything here, you're just running a Merchant here and there. Whip, whip whip instead - you're at happy cap and avoiding some food resources + working a few bad tiles. Had you been farming Scientists however, bulbing Astronomy (after PP) might have been a strong move. You only need 6 Seowons for Oxford. A lot of the ones you're building are not going to be cost-efficient for a while.

@all
A very interesting round so far!

 

[CBPE]

Spoiler :

At last a question about the island to the south. That damn peak messes it up right? You can't hook up both the marble and the horses?

If I'm not wrong, with astronomy all tiles adiacent to water ones are linked.

 

[kossin]

@above

Spoiler :

Actually, you're going to want a fort on whichever's the wrong side of the city.
More on forts here Post #6 for a shiny picture.

 

[CBPE]

@CBPE

Spoiler :

Bold move declaring war on Vicky, it's actually the right decision. Alex is big as you can see and you want to befriend him at all costs.
Also didn't see the capital move and avoided Astronomy despite researching all pre-requisites.
I don't think Caste System is giving you anything here, you're just running a Merchant here and there. Whip, whip whip instead - you're at happy cap and avoiding some food resources + working a few bad tiles. Had you been farming Scientists however, bulbing Astronomy (after PP) might have been a strong move. You only need 6 Seowons for Oxford. A lot of the ones you're building are not going to be cost-efficient for a while.

Spoiler :

Thank you for your feedback.
Of course you are right, I'm not confident to play in (semi-)isolation at all, I've always avoided this kind of maps 'cause I didn't like them so much, but there is a lot to learn from these situations instead....