1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

WangKon (EC)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gumbolt, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. TheBoboni

    TheBoboni Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    My take:

    Spoiler :
    This probably isn't the best 100 turns there could be, but I don't want to replay it.
    First off I ended the war with Louis. Come to think of it now it wasn't the best idea, but one axeman, the low production rate and the number of archers didn't look like I could harm him in any significant way.

    Cease fire signed, I started spamming workers in the capital. Upgraded a few tiles, built barracks and swordsmen. Then I declared war on Louis and took Paris, Orleans and a newly built Lyons.


    As for techs I obviously got fishing, pottery and writing. The I tried for the great lighthouse (masonry&sailing) - not a good idea, as it was far too late to even start and the GLH really wasn't that important. I took currency (alphabet is IMO basically useless in this isolated situation) and calendar (for happiness), then went for Code of Laws to reduce maintenance and boost research.


    Finally, the map. I didn't build any new cities, the science % was too low (even though I was running a lot of scientists).


    The unhappy faces are going to disappear in a few turns when we hook up the Calendar resources.

    From this point getting optics is a priority to find some other civs.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pnp_dredd

    pnp_dredd civ junkie

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    to 400ad:

    Spoiler :

    My goal was to tech as fast as possible to Optics. Path was pottery-writing-sailing then maths-calendar for the resources (+masonry for aqueducts/HG) then beeline Optics. I don't particularly want a religion, so that I can trade with friendly overseas AIs.

    Built granaries and libraries ASAP, plus a few workers/settlers. Built Swords only where there was nothing else to build.

    Prophet in 825bc, just let him sit there till he's got something to do. Probably a golden age at some stage when I've got some libraries and a few cities are at maximum happy pop. Will run some scientists through this GA.

    675bc Louis snuck some archers past me, after I lost two axes attacking archers without any defensive bonuses *sigh*. I took a ceasefire.

    325bc time for a golden age. This doubled my tech rate an allowed me to build lots of infrastructure (granaries, libraries) and gained 10 turns on a Great Scientist.

    25bc declared on Louis.

    70ad built an Academy in Pynongyang, which is the city with the highest commerce potential.

    170ad French destroyed. Great General produced.

    Weirdly, I've got the Ivory within my cultural borders, with a camp and a road, but it's not giving +1:) Ahhh.... I don't have hunting! I fix that.

    Around here I notice some land to the South and send a Galley to investigate [he's about the get taken out by Barbs at 400ad - the island has Horses and Marble.

    265ad get fail cash from HG; 340ad get fail cash from GLH

    370ad Machinery

    400ad
    Teched to Calendar and through MC, machinery and most of Compass. Optics in less than 15 turns (133:science:/turn sustainable, and growing rapidly - see screeny below)
    9 cities, six have at >9 population. All cities have granaries, most have libraries, some have aqueducts and/or forges.
    Academy in Pyongyang
    Moai Statues in 15 turns
    9 workers, 1 Great General
    From the Demographics, we're #1 in land and pop, and #2 in GNP.

    Demographics:


    City overview:


    Island and cornered galley:


    GNP increasing:


     
  3. pnp_dredd

    pnp_dredd civ junkie

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2002
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    and the save:
     
  4. CBPE

    CBPE Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Middle ITALY
    My round:

    Spoiler :

    It was quite easy to close the french issue pretty soon, but then I obviously found me in the good and bad situation of being isolated.

    I'm not in confidence with this kind of game, so I'm almost sure that I've done an awful job (and I'm very curious to see the other saves instead).

    I've managed to develop the empire, building workers and settlers but, most of all, spamming cottages like crazy to desperately try to keep a decent tech ratio.

    With Taoism founded on about 85 AD (when I was about to research CoL), I'd tought that there was no way to win liberalism.
    So I've beelined Optics (at 400 AD I'm four turns from Compass with machinery ALREADY finished).

    I've settled 8 cities, I've thought to got happiness from Calendar's resources instead to research Monarchy/HR since there was no need to build units:



    The nineth will go on the rice:



    Overlook:



    The very poor techs' screen:



    The very VERY poor Civics' screen



    Demographics, at least cottages do their job:



    Anyway, I see NO way to win my game:

    Culture: it seems me impossibile since I don't have any religion
    Military: I have a very bad production capacity
    Space: surely others Civs will be very advantage in tech, and also if I'll be able to cancel the gap, my production capacity will rest low.
    Diplo: ??????

    Are these situations normal in an isolated start??

    EDIT: after seen other saves.
    Well, maybe my save it's not so incredibly awful, it seems me...
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Posting my lousy save. Will try to add some sad commentary tomorrow. :)
     
  6. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Here's what I think I did well:

    spoilered for sheer comedic value.
    Spoiler :
    • Opened the proper save

    • (got my name right)
    • Stopped at the right year


    What I did wrong:

    Spoiler :
    Wandered around the tech tree. I wanted to bulb Theology but didn't research proper techs so settled GP instead.
    I attacked Louis the way he would have attacked me . . . poorly. I wandered around trying this and that. It was ugly. Yes, the job got done but trust me it was some poor play. Best was when I finally decided to actually take him out I had about 7 swords and an axe or two. My first 3 swords with Combat 1 won @ 22% odds! Of course, the 4th sword going in at 59% lost but how could I complain.
     
  7. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    Got round to playing a shadow of this. Took me a little while to get used to epic speed again. Think the whole thing went pretty well although a couple of funny things happened.

    Spoiler :
    Well, the poor little frenchy didn't last very long. Hooked Iron up to capital and spewed out a few swords with the help of the settled Great Prophet. For some reason he had several of his archers wandering around outside New Orleans (I guess moving them to protect his settler) well that made them nice easy kills. By the time my troops reached Orleans he had 1 archer there but he built a second while I moved over the river. Needless to say Orleans didn't stay French for long. Moved on to Paris once everyone was back up only to find that he'd whipped it down to 1 pop and had 5 archers there :sad: However I had a nice surprise when I looked at the combat odds, my odds were 70%, for some reason none of his archers were fortified. Not one to look a gift horse in the mouth I rolled him over at a loss of a single axeman. I'd nabbed his settler for an extra worker and got a bonus one from taking Paris. For the acquired GG I saved him until I founded the SW coastal city for better navy units, HE would go here when the tech is acquired.
    From here on it was all about getting our isolated island into some kind of competitive state. With no religion, a lack of Happy and some great resources to hook up with the right tech the obvious first target was Calendar. I'm really not one for HR and the side track to get Monarchy for only one winery (the wine in the NW isn't going to be hooked up for a long time) seemed far too expensive with no trade partners.
    Alphabet was another important tech and so would currency be (everything is getting cottaged so I'll need to build gold to keep my slider on 100% as often as possible). Without marble and no idea what stage the other civs were at decided to remain on a tightly focused tech path and for the second time in my civ4 playing skipped the Great Library. I figure Lib is going to be pretty big this game so I get 2 scientists going in the capital and start praying I get a scientist (Philo bulb). Things tick along steadily with settling a couple more sites and churning out cottages and calendar improvements. Seriously need to thionk about moving the capital to one of the flood plain sites or perhaps one of the gems/dyes sites but couldn't make a decision and it was helping to get workers/settlers out at the current production site. I've also settled the Island to the south in a wild gamble to find the other civs (hoping the cultural borders will lead me to more land which can link to wherever the hell they all are) perhaps the trade route situation will improve a little from this backwater hole.
    Chew through code of laws and civil service pretty quick, finishing CS with just one turn to go until I find out whether I'm getting the Prophet or a Scientist so I wang a turn of 0% slider research into paper and cross my fingers. at about 65% chance I get my scientist and check to see that the Philo religion isn't founded, nope, I'm safe (I divierted off to make sure I had the pre-reqs and also grabbed Monarchy while I was down there). At this point I'm pretty confident I know where this game is going. Bulb Philo, got my own religion and now it's time to think about what is wanted from Lib (in theory no other civ will be actively chasing Lib). Obvious choices are Astronomy to find the other civs and get trading (+1 naval speed could be big on this map given our isolation too), Nationalism for a Taj Mahal attempt, wasn't really looking at this until I just looked at Duals (I think edit: was PnP's) SS and think that marble may be available but it's a big risk without knowing what the other civs are doing or go down the printing press/replaceable parts line. Could always go crazy and try to nab something further in but I think it's better to get the advantage from it earlier rather than later. Good option I think would be astro and head for Privateers so that we can both find the other civs and screw with their progress but we just don't know their tech situation.

    Bit of a ramble but I'm at work so I keep going away and coming back to this.


    @Lymond I had a moment where I couldn't work out why the 'phants weren't hooked up too
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23,253
    Location:
    UK
    Please use spoilers as this is game info!!!

    Round will close 6pm GMT on Saturday once I have done my round.
     
  9. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Sorry for the non-spoilered game info. Fixed.
     
  10. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23,253
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks. :)
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,109
    This could turn out to be an interesting game depending on what's out there. We have enough land, resources, cities to hunker down for a peaceful win or conquer the world.

    What kind of map is this again? I couldn't read it in the OP.
     
  12. kossin

    kossin Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    9,572
    Location:
    Canada
    Base map is 'Continents' as I stated in the second post.
     
  13. tmd171

    tmd171 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Hi all, here's my attempt at this round. Monarch player here so probably not as strong as some of your guys' saves.

    Spoiler :


    Well, we started in a very good position with the nice block of nappy and SH and IW to boot. I took peace with nappy so I could build some swords to take him down. Little lacking on workers so I built some workers in my other cities while seoul built swords. After I had around 5 swords I went to nappys borders to take orleans when I see 2 french archers and settler coming towards me. So I take them down on flat land then I proceed to capture Orleans. I then take peace so I can heal and bring in some more swords for his capital. In the mean time, I'm spamming cottages and hooking up resources in my cities.

    Paris is taken in 725 BC.



    After the french were taken care of I built one more city right away to take the floodplains north of seoul. Not too many exciting things happened but lots of tile improvements. Most cities got atleast granary, library, then I built research on them because I really wanted calendar. My tech path was something like writing>alpha>fishing>sailing>math>calendar>currency>CoL and now I am 3 turns from CS. I'm in the process of changing my palace to one of the floodplain cities in order to run bureacracy, I settled a GS in that city as well so it will be very strong somewhat soon. Right now cities are building courthouses, wealth, or markets to help out economy. I think the slider is at 50% with no gold drain.

    Empire at 400AD



    8 cities so far with a settler in position to settle another to the northwest of the capital on the coast





    Tech situation



    Unit/worker count



    City that palace is moving to, will take the gems back after burea





     

    Attached Files:

  14. CBPE

    CBPE Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Middle ITALY
    I'm taking a look at the saves already posted.

    Some thought about:

    Spoiler :


    Norvin Green: I think 7 cities is a bit poor and you have not Calendar yet (to me is a mistake in this kind of map).
    You have preferred CS (but it seems it's too late for Lib race) while I've preferred MC -> Machinery -> Compass (that totally lacks in your save) with the idea to got Optics early that I think is crucial in this kind of map.
    I don't know, it seems me that bureocracy doesn't give the usually boost here, as well you have not build an academy in the capital and there is no special production capacity required.

    Glansmannen: for me a bit too slow, due to not happy tech choices. You're forced to build barracks and units cause you have nothing better... Also prefering monarchy regarding calendar for happiness (to me is a mistake in this kind of map) you needed at least alphabet and most of all currency, I think.

    PNP_DREDD: great work having discovered that southern island (I was really tempted to see where it can lead towards!).
    Maybe you killed Louis a bit too late (180 AD?!?), so French cities are now poorly developed.

    tmd171: IMHO, you have a little problem using properly the workers (I think is one of the most important aspect of the game indeed). You have 15 workers (!!! a TON), and you haven't already improved the silk in capital's BFC (it provides also +1:) and you have some red faces around... you have to chop yet!).
    You haven't improved the wheat that is the only tile the Cheju is working (and you have no workers around) and you have no workers in some light-years ray from the city you're about to settle!

    TheBobony: it seems that the big problem is the lack of happiness, I think that calendar came too late. Also, you are not improving the relative resources (no worker near silk and incense and sugar just started...). You've plenty of red faces and anyway at least it's worthwhile to whip them away meanwhile the happy cap will grow.


    Of course, if I talk nonsense, please signal me... I'm here to learn not to teach :)
     
  15. Norvin_Green

    Norvin_Green Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,874
    Location:
    The Garden State
    Spoiler :


    I couldn't agree more. I actually held back on cities as being newly isolated there wasn't a rush.
     
  16. tmd171

    tmd171 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    28
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    @CBPE

    Spoiler :


    Thanks for your comments. I defintely agree that I should have gotten workers over to the 2 new cities a lot sooner. I only have 9 workers you might have misread my unit screenie =). I forgot about the silk in my capital but now its only 3 turns away from being hooked up. I didn't want to whip the market because its a 4 pop whip and silks going to be available soon but I should probably whip the courthouse in paris for 2 pop. I just try to rush turns and forgot to do things but I need to spend more time obviously because its not optimal worker usage. Hopefully I'll have time to look at yours and everyone elses saves soon.



     
  17. CBPE

    CBPE Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Middle ITALY
    @tmd171
    Spoiler :

    Excuse me, I confused with some other save :blush:
    Anyway, it's not only for the silk: you have 2 workers building road to nowhere at the moment, one building a mine that will be unuseful and one farming a cottage that is about to become village near Paris when you don't need food now! (are you using automated workers which can change old improvements?).
    About unhappy, I've learned on this forum that it's ALWAYS unworthwhile.
    Avoid the growth when a city is about to become unhappy: work mine tiles or run specialists. You don't want to whip the market, but Pyongyang is still growing and you could run 2 scientists
     
  18. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23,253
    Location:
    UK
    Oh well I have played it slightly differently it seems but here we go.

    Spoiler :


    okay i didnt settle the copper city. Wanted to keep science higher. Eventually went for FP city instead once orleans fell.

    Okay french were gone around 600bc. Took Orlean first and then Paris. With CR2 Swords at hand the odds were pretty even. I kept the irrigated land and prolly should have kept the ivory.

    I teched towards great lib. Then towards maths to time my chop with its completion.

    I eventually built Glib and NE in capital. Great people are on the way. 2 GPriests was a pain.

    I got about 243 gold from failing to build SOZ. Exactly what I wanted. Didnt need the wonder anyway.

    Overall just grabbed calender and on way to COl for cast system. Then i can crank up my GP farm. I am working to work all the commerce resources asap.

    City wise I only have 8 but easy to whip a few more. Worker wise only 11 and i really need more.

    Having checked other saves i think my save is not quite up to par as i didnt go the research/ wealth route. Ho hum!

    Spoiler :









     

    Attached Files:

  19. Ambro

    Ambro Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    81
    Spoiler :
    With the Great Library scientists, extra great people and the HE helping to pump that further you are probably much closer than you think. Biggest problem is probably going to be lack of/underdeveloped cottages with a lack of workers and low city count. Hard to tell since I can't look at your save just yet. Is music on the cards for the free great artist to grab a Golden Age (check whether any great artists have been born via the notepad thingy)? I've fallen a bit out of favour with chasing it lately as it's a bit of a dead end tech but the GA could be a really nice boost.

    Next round the target is obviously going to be finding the other civs so that we can work out where we are in relation to them which will change the whole dynamic of what we are doing.
     
  20. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23,253
    Location:
    UK
    Spoiler :


    An artist went around 1ad so I didnt go for it. I have missed out on Taoism too. I really needed 2-3 more workers hence why I didnt spam cities.

    Some of the saves have science count twice mine. Once all the resources are worked I will be slightly stronger, Could use an offshore city really. I dont think this save will be winning the round but at least i tried something different.

    One thing this cookbook has shown is how to best tackle isolated starts.


    Are we ready to close up shop? Anyone else got a save to come?
     

Share This Page