TheDarkPhantom
Deconstructing Minds
- Joined
- May 26, 2004
- Messages
- 94
Symphony D, agree with what you said, but on a totally different topic, isn't your signature a modified line from the Simpsons 
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War Against The EU
- Thread starter soccerrules
- Start date
Corvex
Emperor of Canada
They launched a sneak attack on the weekend, when everyone thought their army was off duty 
Seriously though, I like the EU and what it stands for. Nationalism has given nothing to anyone save years of blood and death.
Seriously though, I like the EU and what it stands for. Nationalism has given nothing to anyone save years of blood and death.
Nationalism like the French getting millions of dollasrs from Iraq so they wont back us in their .... open minded spirit.... not to mention the Germans and Russians following their own financial intrests rather then help us....Just look at the oil for food money paying off those 3 countries to see that they dont worry about their national intrests.
Now that Russia was just hit they think they have the right to defend themselves in any region of the world now as well. Funny how that works.
We are not the bad guys in the world, we rebuilt Germany and Japan after the war and will do the same for Iraq.... They had their fanatics for 10 years after WWII fighting us and blowing stuff up .. but you dont remember that I suppose. Now they are reasonably peaceful members of the Globe. Now Iraq may be a bit different because they have fuzzy boarders and cultures ...not to mention Syra and Iran helping fuel the fires. But once Sadam is dead they can make a choice ... they are still living in fear that he could get free and regain power as long as he is still alive. You dont know that kind of terror and it may take a generation to get past the fear he instilled in that population. Nationalism has given us the ability to be free. If not for that Germany and Japan would have won WWII ... look at the structure of those two nations back then and see how we would be living today. We on the whole still try to be the good guys. Our army is defending us well .. we haven't been hit in 3 years. We still owe our freedom to the soldier, and always will. By definition if you remove one tiny bit of evil the world is a safer better place. So if you think Sadam was the slightest bit evil or dangerous to anyone .. then the world is a better place.
Now that Russia was just hit they think they have the right to defend themselves in any region of the world now as well. Funny how that works.
We are not the bad guys in the world, we rebuilt Germany and Japan after the war and will do the same for Iraq.... They had their fanatics for 10 years after WWII fighting us and blowing stuff up .. but you dont remember that I suppose. Now they are reasonably peaceful members of the Globe. Now Iraq may be a bit different because they have fuzzy boarders and cultures ...not to mention Syra and Iran helping fuel the fires. But once Sadam is dead they can make a choice ... they are still living in fear that he could get free and regain power as long as he is still alive. You dont know that kind of terror and it may take a generation to get past the fear he instilled in that population. Nationalism has given us the ability to be free. If not for that Germany and Japan would have won WWII ... look at the structure of those two nations back then and see how we would be living today. We on the whole still try to be the good guys. Our army is defending us well .. we haven't been hit in 3 years. We still owe our freedom to the soldier, and always will. By definition if you remove one tiny bit of evil the world is a safer better place. So if you think Sadam was the slightest bit evil or dangerous to anyone .. then the world is a better place.
muffins
Lemon scented
I'm afraid that Corvex is correct ... nationalism offers nothing except death and war. WW2 was triggered by out-of-control nationalism in both Japan and Germany. Nationalism in Iraq is a discreditied force because Saddam used it greatly in his propaganda and is now associated (by Iraqis) with the hated Ba'ath Party and Saddam's regime. North Korea's ultra-nationalism is so extreme that it makes the likes of WW2 Germany and Japan look like amaters.Webrider said:
And I promise you, if the ultra-nationalists in the US get re-elected in November then they will start another war or two.
echinococcus
Prince
uhm....did i miss a download link or two?
mitsho
Deity
@Webrider you make one BIG mistake. You divide the world in good&bad. And that's just wrong. We are not good or bad, we are but humans.
IF you divide the world like you did, you are right. For you subjectively, the U.S are then the glorious winners and savers of the Earth, et cetera...
But that's not reality.
mfG mitsho
IF you divide the world like you did, you are right. For you subjectively, the U.S are then the glorious winners and savers of the Earth, et cetera...
But that's not reality.
mfG mitsho
The Omega
Completely Insane
Mitsho is right. The only goo/bad you ever see in history is in the idiotic, obviosly biased history books that we're supposed to learn from. In reality, there is no good or bad. Even Hitler did some good, rebuilding German'ies econamy.
Good not blow up trade centers.... Bad blow up trade centers... easy.
Good not torture and kill 10,000's of people .... Bad kill and torture 10,000's of people.
easy again.
Mitsho, we did save Europe and China in WWII no doubt about that.
We did not conquer Europe after WWII nor did we want to.
We dont hold Japan as the State of Japan we gave it back, because it was the right (good) thing to do. We try to help when we can, just don't attack us. (simple)
Good not torture and kill 10,000's of people .... Bad kill and torture 10,000's of people.
easy again.
Mitsho, we did save Europe and China in WWII no doubt about that.
We did not conquer Europe after WWII nor did we want to.
We dont hold Japan as the State of Japan we gave it back, because it was the right (good) thing to do. We try to help when we can, just don't attack us. (simple)
The Omega
Completely Insane
Ah, but that is using the good-bad mentality we are taught from an early age. For all we know, it could comletely be wrong.Webrider said:
A few things. Where the hell is Australia. You cant think we are that insignificant can you? It is predicted that we will become one of the top economical super powers in the near future.
Going back a bit True Communism or how it should of been if Lenin hadnt died so early is a more pure form of democracy. Giving everyone a vote and more importantly actually making that vote count. Nicagura (Cant spell it, i think its in Africa or South america) is a prime example they set up commities in every town and the people decided what was the best for their area and who should represent them. This is very similar to Democracies system of councils granted but it worked better. Well until a certain country backed local terroists to overthrow violently the government. These terroists because you can call them nothing less raped and butchered the people of this country. America has opposed Communism since the start. This is valid in certain areas such as stalin. But in others America has gone too far.
With the hating of G.W Bush or Tony Blair the same can easily be said here against John Howard. Though no-one really notices.
In truth the uniting of the world is the next logical step and probaly the best one available. I fear though that the only two ways that it will actually come to fruitition is if one of the Superpowers wipes out the others and takes conmtrol or if we are invaded by aliens.
Sadam was a bastard true but why not just assasinate him. Please dont tell me he was too hard to get at. America had the resourcesor still has. In my opinion that wouldnt have pissed people off as much. They could have finished his regime which seems to be the only good thing we have done without killing a single civilian.
Going back a bit True Communism or how it should of been if Lenin hadnt died so early is a more pure form of democracy. Giving everyone a vote and more importantly actually making that vote count. Nicagura (Cant spell it, i think its in Africa or South america) is a prime example they set up commities in every town and the people decided what was the best for their area and who should represent them. This is very similar to Democracies system of councils granted but it worked better. Well until a certain country backed local terroists to overthrow violently the government. These terroists because you can call them nothing less raped and butchered the people of this country. America has opposed Communism since the start. This is valid in certain areas such as stalin. But in others America has gone too far.
With the hating of G.W Bush or Tony Blair the same can easily be said here against John Howard. Though no-one really notices.
In truth the uniting of the world is the next logical step and probaly the best one available. I fear though that the only two ways that it will actually come to fruitition is if one of the Superpowers wipes out the others and takes conmtrol or if we are invaded by aliens.
Sadam was a bastard true but why not just assasinate him. Please dont tell me he was too hard to get at. America had the resourcesor still has. In my opinion that wouldnt have pissed people off as much. They could have finished his regime which seems to be the only good thing we have done without killing a single civilian.
Thats cuz we have forgotten u, apart from thrashing u at cricketTyrion said:
@Webringer, the world trade centre belived in free trade no? but free trade for whom (for the mega corps, like Monsanto) not the third world traders who get sold GM crops that don't seed and are pattened so that they can't farm in the old style and are forced to buy more of this infertile crop. Is that good? The world is not so black and white, more a kind of greyish mess.
Winstein Churchill used gas before Hitler, the Americans sold Natzi Germany weapons, before they joined in the fight (and that was only after Pearl Harbour, and much coaxing from Europe). And now its writen that the glorious Americans saved us. MMM
Workers of the World unite and over throw the tyrany of the corprations, well maybe not but the corperations are alike despots and the goverments their subjects. Or something like that?
Finlandiaciv
Supreme General in WWIII
EU is good, Bush is bad, I'm the best! hmm... no, but I think EU is good, but some of their laws sucks, and bush should be good if he didn't go in the wars... also, I think the only thing that can Ally earth is if we discover an alien who wanna conquer us 
muffins
Lemon scented
Tyrion said:
Is this the same Oztralia that has fewer people and a lower GDP per capita than the Netherlands?
keen
Chieftain
Europe doesn't start Britain and end France, for god sake grow up ! Read some books on history or smth... Europeans are VERY different. It makes me angry when American even use this word too offen - european, it's not a nationality duh ! Each country and nation is very unique and special. Over hundrets of years common history of culture, science and wars 'europeans' learned how to RESPECT each country on this planet contrary to Americans, which can only get fatter and fatter from their own greed and drop some bombs on some hopeless country every ten years.
spammikone
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2004
- Messages
- 139
bigmeat said:
Yes, that site is pretty funny cause of the writer's anti-french attitude. And he clearly is american; no doubt about that.
- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
France didn't even exist then! It was full of minor tribes, that were fightning each other aswell.
And what about wars that united most of the France? Surely that wise historian wouldn't forget that... or would he?
- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.
"Mostly lost", hahaha! That just shows writer's attitude towards France... So conquering Brittany (Bretogne or whatever) and actually winning the war wouldn't meant anything?
- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
Europeans saw far more action that americans in WW1/WW2, so with that logic americans shouldn't be proud of their accomplishments on those wars.
"America only wins if France gives support." - this sounds more logical to me.
- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
Were there only one revolution????
- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
Hmm... let's see.. Germany expanded hugely in WW2, but lost at the end; they are tough guys!
France expanded hugely at Napoleonic Wars, but lost at end; they must be sissy girls!
And wow! Did that one corsican lead the whole french army! Must be hard to be the only general on own side...
- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
If that guy who writed that text studied history, he knows that Germany was crumbling on inside, and they wouldn't be able to do anything to break french lines. Actually french were on the neck.
Sorry to say to all americans, but USA's efford in WW1 didn't mean anything... that's the fact. At the other side WW2 may have been ended differently without the Lend-Lease agreements.
- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
This guy sure knows how to tell fairytales. I thought that France won the war? Or was it part of the axis? What i have missed?
Africa, Middle-East, Far-East, back in Europe... busy at the whole war.And BTW, it is "Horst Wessel Lied".
- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu
True.
But where's the fact, that France won war in Indochina ~100 years earlier?
And i suggest, that americans don't stay on this subject.
- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
War on what? Nobody threats France. So why go at war?
Terrorists have always been - and will be. Bush invented "war on terrorism", for an excuse to go to Iraq (this was not an opinion, because Iraq doesnt support terrorists towards western world). Afghanistan was purely "terrorist state", but aren't there UN corps with frenchmen?
Pure propaganda.
vanrozenheim
Chieftain
Hello guys! I am a European and I'm very fond of cute, well-educated Americans who speak more than one language and can locate Uganda on the map in less than 20 seconds (Ha! No need to guess how many percent of your fellow citizens will menage this!). Also I'm very grateful to that american (and russian) soldiers who gave their lives in WWII to save the world from fascists. Never forget, too, those French, Netherlander, Germans, Polish, Canadian, British and many more, who fighted in an army or underground against the Nazi regime.
Unlike in US, in Europe many cities were devastated and millions of civilians were killed, and still millions elder people remember their being bombed and loosing their homes and families. That's why for most Europeans a real war is not just a word but a very concrete, awfull memory. Americans always fighted their wars outside of their country and for most of them war is an abstract thing suitable to demonstrate the triumph of democracy and freedom over the tyranny and despotism.
Guys, world is a much more complex thing than your chief-of-a-president and your local priest have ever told you! Go to you city library, get some books and lear more about the history of this planet!
- America got into WWII not in order to free France or help GB, but because Germans have torpedoed and sank some of biger ships near England and a lot of american passengers drawnd.
- Japan began the war against America (WWII) due to the fact, that american expansion in South-East Asia threaten its shipment routes and the supply with oil. Japan never threatened Americans at their homes and never prepared to land in San Francisco. Unnesessary to mention, that at the very first contact to an American ship Japanes politely refused any contact and were then bombarded as a sign of a good will. In 1945, despite of Japanese will to surrender on terms (since February-March), US Goverment refused any talks and insisted an a termless capitulation. The followed extinction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by nuclear bombing were absolutely unnecessary from military point of view and are untill now the most awfull examples of war crimes.
- The war in Vietnam with millions of dead Vietnamese should be present to every American, but seems already forgotten. Any reparations were never paid.
- The military putsch in Argentina (Pinochet) was supported by CIA as well as many similiar putsches in Africa, were beginning democracies were destroyed with american help due to financial and military interests of United States.
Should I continue? The Taliban in Afghanistan with all their weapons and terroist training camps were supported by US-Goverment in the 80ties; Saddam Hussein and Oliver Noriega were best friends of US in former times. The sad truth is, that many of US goverments never cared a bit about democracy or freedom in the world. They were very often talking about this, but their ruled an the contrary.
Yes, Germans killed millions of jewish people at Nazi time. And, yes, Spanish massacred Azteks and other Indians. And, yes, French have misbehaved in Indochina. The difference is, WE HAVE LEARNED FROM HISTORY. For example, Germany is now a democratic country which together with Japan provide 30% of United Nations budget (Americans, however, prefer not to pay since years...). Germany as well is paying some compensations to jewish survivers (at least as a sign of a good will). Vietnam, to my knowledge, never received anything from US government.
Besides, not every nation desires democracy and western economical system. Why do this fools do this? Because they have different history and not neccessary are ready for it. Keep in mind, that democracy only functions well in societies with certain education level and a social structure similiar to ours. In a country, where society consists of clans with a local tribe chief, people also can live fine without striving and despotry. THEY ARE JUST FINE HOW THEIR ARE. Sure, Saddam was an *******, but the mislead attempt to enforce democracy in a country with a clan system and big religeous conflicts has lead to a near-by catastrophe, precisely like every sane european leader or scientist had forecasted. Unfortunately, a lot of Americans suffered the mass psychose which their believe being patriotism. Didn't you guys realize, that almost ALL of UN member countries were against the Iraq war and also Kofi Annan, UN secretary, called it clearly illegal?
The only hope for the world is now, that true american patriots will put their country back onto the right way, in order to join other democracies and not such "friends" like Sudan or Malaysia.
To get the bow back to the game ("War against EU"): Plese enable a diplomatic victory option! And to the "Super-Overkill-Weapon": Remember what happens in CIV to people who drop a nuke or poison drinking water in a city? Right, all Civs make an alliance against this "Ax of the Evel"!!! And guess, who will be the one?
Please give us a "Federation"-World Wonder!!! With the help of Vulkan we will hit the stupid Ferrenghies!
Unlike in US, in Europe many cities were devastated and millions of civilians were killed, and still millions elder people remember their being bombed and loosing their homes and families. That's why for most Europeans a real war is not just a word but a very concrete, awfull memory. Americans always fighted their wars outside of their country and for most of them war is an abstract thing suitable to demonstrate the triumph of democracy and freedom over the tyranny and despotism.
Guys, world is a much more complex thing than your chief-of-a-president and your local priest have ever told you! Go to you city library, get some books and lear more about the history of this planet!
- America got into WWII not in order to free France or help GB, but because Germans have torpedoed and sank some of biger ships near England and a lot of american passengers drawnd.
- Japan began the war against America (WWII) due to the fact, that american expansion in South-East Asia threaten its shipment routes and the supply with oil. Japan never threatened Americans at their homes and never prepared to land in San Francisco. Unnesessary to mention, that at the very first contact to an American ship Japanes politely refused any contact and were then bombarded as a sign of a good will. In 1945, despite of Japanese will to surrender on terms (since February-March), US Goverment refused any talks and insisted an a termless capitulation. The followed extinction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by nuclear bombing were absolutely unnecessary from military point of view and are untill now the most awfull examples of war crimes.
- The war in Vietnam with millions of dead Vietnamese should be present to every American, but seems already forgotten. Any reparations were never paid.
- The military putsch in Argentina (Pinochet) was supported by CIA as well as many similiar putsches in Africa, were beginning democracies were destroyed with american help due to financial and military interests of United States.
Should I continue? The Taliban in Afghanistan with all their weapons and terroist training camps were supported by US-Goverment in the 80ties; Saddam Hussein and Oliver Noriega were best friends of US in former times. The sad truth is, that many of US goverments never cared a bit about democracy or freedom in the world. They were very often talking about this, but their ruled an the contrary.
Yes, Germans killed millions of jewish people at Nazi time. And, yes, Spanish massacred Azteks and other Indians. And, yes, French have misbehaved in Indochina. The difference is, WE HAVE LEARNED FROM HISTORY. For example, Germany is now a democratic country which together with Japan provide 30% of United Nations budget (Americans, however, prefer not to pay since years...). Germany as well is paying some compensations to jewish survivers (at least as a sign of a good will). Vietnam, to my knowledge, never received anything from US government.
Besides, not every nation desires democracy and western economical system. Why do this fools do this? Because they have different history and not neccessary are ready for it. Keep in mind, that democracy only functions well in societies with certain education level and a social structure similiar to ours. In a country, where society consists of clans with a local tribe chief, people also can live fine without striving and despotry. THEY ARE JUST FINE HOW THEIR ARE. Sure, Saddam was an *******, but the mislead attempt to enforce democracy in a country with a clan system and big religeous conflicts has lead to a near-by catastrophe, precisely like every sane european leader or scientist had forecasted. Unfortunately, a lot of Americans suffered the mass psychose which their believe being patriotism. Didn't you guys realize, that almost ALL of UN member countries were against the Iraq war and also Kofi Annan, UN secretary, called it clearly illegal?
The only hope for the world is now, that true american patriots will put their country back onto the right way, in order to join other democracies and not such "friends" like Sudan or Malaysia.
To get the bow back to the game ("War against EU"): Plese enable a diplomatic victory option! And to the "Super-Overkill-Weapon": Remember what happens in CIV to people who drop a nuke or poison drinking water in a city? Right, all Civs make an alliance against this "Ax of the Evel"!!! And guess, who will be the one?
Please give us a "Federation"-World Wonder!!! With the help of Vulkan we will hit the stupid Ferrenghies!
When does history stop and learning start? When the French were misbehaving in Indochina, for example, they did have ALL that time to reflect back on, and they did it anyway; same is true for every other war in Europe or elsewhere. Just because things seem fairly peaceful now, doesn't mean that Europe or anyone else has actually learned anything. As an American, I naively thought we had LEARNED more or less during the Clinton administration, and that was only 4 years ago (of course there were some shady things there as well, but hey, shady is a fact of life unfortunately in most govs).
Where were the learned people in the recent east German elections? Attitudes towards Sudan? Is Europe really doing anything more or less than the US in Sudan, or are we fighting over terminologies at the UN (think we have been/still are??!??). Thought we had learned something from WWII. Personally, I think maybe Scandinavia has got it right for the moment (not much in the way of human rights abuses in the last x years, at least I don't think so and if there has please someone say something). The rest of us, well, we're just sitting on our hands waiting for good or bad politicians to take office, but hopefully voting for what we think is right (and not believing it when that isn't the outcome). Even if you disagree with Blair, he's still in office. Europe can talk when there's no wars or abuses instigated for well, I don't really know the duration. Need I remind people that there actually were Europeans in that silly coalition? Still, anyone but Bush will be an improvement.
Please, though, lets get back to civ and the mod...
Where were the learned people in the recent east German elections? Attitudes towards Sudan? Is Europe really doing anything more or less than the US in Sudan, or are we fighting over terminologies at the UN (think we have been/still are??!??). Thought we had learned something from WWII. Personally, I think maybe Scandinavia has got it right for the moment (not much in the way of human rights abuses in the last x years, at least I don't think so and if there has please someone say something). The rest of us, well, we're just sitting on our hands waiting for good or bad politicians to take office, but hopefully voting for what we think is right (and not believing it when that isn't the outcome). Even if you disagree with Blair, he's still in office. Europe can talk when there's no wars or abuses instigated for well, I don't really know the duration. Need I remind people that there actually were Europeans in that silly coalition? Still, anyone but Bush will be an improvement.
Please, though, lets get back to civ and the mod...
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