War on Terrorism!
- Thread starter Tahuti
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mik_bakunin
Chieftain
Kaiserguard said:
Iraq was never a muslim state. thats why saddam and osama weren't the best of friends. anyone who tells you different is a government propagandist.
and why only muslim terrorists. what about IRA, ETA?
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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Not yet, and I might consider using existing medium sized earth maps that will be edited.
And besides, this mod concentrates on modern conflicts (In The Middle-East and Asia), Christian, Neo-Nazi and Socialist terrorists simply carry out attacks that even doesnt surpasses the newspaper like it did before 9/11. Also these were somewhat impossible to make and they dont have massive training camps like Al-Qaida. Besides terrorism isnt featuring a major position, Its Modern Combat in General since short! And in the late stages (after 2010), you might found yourself as the US struggling against China and North-Korea while the terrorists are utterly defeated.
Also, this scenario it will feature doesnt have the US or UK itself on the map: Likely the US will start in Turkey or Saudi-Arabia (Their allies). Great Britian will hold the Suez channel (With loads of soldiers) and Greece.
And besides, this mod concentrates on modern conflicts (In The Middle-East and Asia), Christian, Neo-Nazi and Socialist terrorists simply carry out attacks that even doesnt surpasses the newspaper like it did before 9/11. Also these were somewhat impossible to make and they dont have massive training camps like Al-Qaida. Besides terrorism isnt featuring a major position, Its Modern Combat in General since short! And in the late stages (after 2010), you might found yourself as the US struggling against China and North-Korea while the terrorists are utterly defeated.
Also, this scenario it will feature doesnt have the US or UK itself on the map: Likely the US will start in Turkey or Saudi-Arabia (Their allies). Great Britian will hold the Suez channel (With loads of soldiers) and Greece.
Silica_Pathways
King
They're out of fashion and American propoganda. So they won't fit
mik_bakunin
Chieftain
Kaiserguard said:
a modern combat mod with british soldiers holding the suez? why? us and uk have the same allies in the area so why the suez?
also, turkey never agreed to let the "coalition" base forces there. and i find that the scope of 9/11 is greatly exaggerated. one attack versus the IRA keeping the uk in fear for decades. come on, theres no comparison.
Huxley Hobbes
Anarcho-capitalist
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Rufus T. Firefly said:I want to see how USA will lie to UN
I want to see how the UN will fail to stop tens of thousands of Kurds being killed
But back to the mod. I think it'd be qutie difficult to do a 'war on terror' without making some fundamental changes to the game. First of all, the methods terrorists use to attack are radically different from a conventional army - Civ is pretty much all about conventional armies. For an example of the problems this could create; terrorists do not operate as nations. How does one work that in with the idea of borders, aside from anything else? I suppose invisible units who can go anywhere would work, but how about training and recruiting people? Training camps could work, but (As far as I know) the London bombers hadn't been to such training camps.
Another, more significant concern, is that of victory conditions. How do terrorists win? Extract an apology from western nations and assure a permanent withdrawal of western forces from whatever territory? How do legitimate nations win? I daresay even if terrorist networks were entirely wiped out, the ideologies would remain and sprout up in new ways. How does one simulate, for example, cyber-terrorism? (Which is an imminent, possibly inevitable event in our future.)
I dunno. It just seems like this would be a tough one to do in general, never mind given the restrictions of the Civ engine.
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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Well, I have considerations to simply turn it into a General Modern Combat mod with all important Modern nations in it. Also a few Muslim and Arab Nationalist regimes included but also nations such as NK and China will be included. Persia and Rome will turned into modern nations and every nation get's a modern UU suiting in the timescale 1975-future.
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
Well, personally I think that if you are going to make a modern mod then you should include a modern map/scenario with it, and if you are doing that then the "war on terror" seems a very good way to do it and you can only include the Eastern Hemisphere since that is where most of the fighting in that war is taking place, thus a more detailed map. I am willing to help with anything you need btw.
Tahuti
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Stormbringer said:
Your should be making a map stretching from Moscow to the South of the Arab peninsula and from Egypt to Japan. Greece should be British ground (Its an UK ally) ,Japan and South-Korea should be for US. It should start in 1975 (Rise of Muslim terrorism and decay of the Soviet Union). You could also start with China and India already, if you make cities of Afghanistan, Pakistan and such, make them Barbarian. You wont need the modding files yet in that way. When youre finished, send the map file to me.
Tunch Khan
King
There's no such thing as "Muslim Terrorism", you have to watch the terminology. Terrorism is terrorism, and it doesn't have a religion. All terrorists are brainwashed, some with radical Islamic lies, others with Nazi or Communist idealism and some by CIA propaganda. It doesn't matter what the terrorist believes, it's their actions against civilians that matter. If you blow up a hotel with journalists or tourists, you are a terrorist. If you wipe out Fellujah together with its civilian inhabitants including women and children using chemical weapons, you are no different. You can call it Jihad or War Against Terrorism, but the result is same. Who you are is determined by your actions, not your words. If you leave mothers crying for their babies behind you, you are a terrorist and it doesn't matter which camp you are at.
Point is, there's no such thing as good terorist or bad terrorist; your terrorist or our terrorist. Terrorism is bad and should be wiped out alltogether without naming them and putting into categories. No one seems to learn the most valuable lesson: you can't eliminate terror by the use of force, you help spread it that way.
Point is, there's no such thing as good terorist or bad terrorist; your terrorist or our terrorist. Terrorism is bad and should be wiped out alltogether without naming them and putting into categories. No one seems to learn the most valuable lesson: you can't eliminate terror by the use of force, you help spread it that way.
Stormbringer
The Brick and The Rose
I already made a map of the area that is in question, I also have a larger variant if the one I posted is not big enough, but I think the one I made now is pretty much as big as is possible and still being small enough for most people to run it.
BirraImperial
Pura Vida!
panzooka said:
I always thought China has the biggest army in the planet (like over 3 million soldiers?)
Sounds like a great scenario! I wish people would keep the politics out of the thread.
Some advice: I remember there was a first gulf war scenario for civ 2. The map covered basically the mideast. And there was a "Coalition" civ that included Greece, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. The problem was that it was wayyyy too easy, you just walked over Iraq and there was nothing left to do.
So here are some suggestions. Limit the US territory to critical allies where the US had troops on the ground. Give the US Kuwait to invade Iraq with, and maybe Uzbekistan to invade Afghanistan with (if the map goes all the way to Asia, they'd get South Korea too). The USA should have a massive high tech army in these areas, along with an unstoppable air force and navy, but their starting cities should have very limited production. They should NOT have nukes, to reflect the fact that the US would never use nukes in the war on terror. They should also not be able to build any more modern units, only militia type units in cities that the US takes over, modeled after the Iraqi security forces. They could periodically get new, advanced units lifted in as random events.
Furthermore, once a city is taken, it should be verry difficult to expand the cultural borders of the city. Maybe you could also mod the game to make the "resistance" phase of capturing a city take much longer than usual. If it took longer expand cultural borders into the countryside, then more barbarians (functioning as terrorists in this mod) would appear with regularity in the uncontrolled land. The units they get should be effective terrorist type units.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents on the mod. Good luck.
Some advice: I remember there was a first gulf war scenario for civ 2. The map covered basically the mideast. And there was a "Coalition" civ that included Greece, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. The problem was that it was wayyyy too easy, you just walked over Iraq and there was nothing left to do.
So here are some suggestions. Limit the US territory to critical allies where the US had troops on the ground. Give the US Kuwait to invade Iraq with, and maybe Uzbekistan to invade Afghanistan with (if the map goes all the way to Asia, they'd get South Korea too). The USA should have a massive high tech army in these areas, along with an unstoppable air force and navy, but their starting cities should have very limited production. They should NOT have nukes, to reflect the fact that the US would never use nukes in the war on terror. They should also not be able to build any more modern units, only militia type units in cities that the US takes over, modeled after the Iraqi security forces. They could periodically get new, advanced units lifted in as random events.
Furthermore, once a city is taken, it should be verry difficult to expand the cultural borders of the city. Maybe you could also mod the game to make the "resistance" phase of capturing a city take much longer than usual. If it took longer expand cultural borders into the countryside, then more barbarians (functioning as terrorists in this mod) would appear with regularity in the uncontrolled land. The units they get should be effective terrorist type units.
Anyway, that's just my 2 cents on the mod. Good luck.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
This does lead to another problem. Terrorists don't have a state. That's as true of Timothy McVeigh as it is of Osama Bin Laden. They are both considered enemies in their own nation. And they are both enemies of the entire world. There is no peace treaty with them, nor is there a formal declaration of war. They're more like an international criminal. Would you declare war on New York if you wanted to bring down Tony Soprano?
For the sake of a modern combat mod, I figure it makes sense to focus on the world powers and stay away from terrorism. State-versus-state, rather than all nations versus a select few individuals.
Leave Osama and the IRA out of it, and just focus on states like North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Britain, America, Israel, China, Russia, and so on. That's what the Civilization series was meant to tackle.
For the sake of a modern combat mod, I figure it makes sense to focus on the world powers and stay away from terrorism. State-versus-state, rather than all nations versus a select few individuals.
Leave Osama and the IRA out of it, and just focus on states like North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Britain, America, Israel, China, Russia, and so on. That's what the Civilization series was meant to tackle.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Edit: Argh. Aren't there safechecks to prevent double posts?
red guard are just student revolutionaries who burnt books and beat the petty buourgeoisie. I hardly would classify them as elite troops. Mao just gave them a elitist name.
PLA is the name of the Chinese Army. People's Liberation Army.
I have never heard of the Sjiite sect in Islam, I have however heard of the Shi'ite Sect, or the Shiah sect (I think this spelling is more common).?
Isn't the name of Yitzak Rabin just Yitzak Rabin. Doesn't the Al as prefix mean from Rabin, and is Arabic. Yitzak Rabin is a Jew.
Maybe, we should only focus on the Middle East so as to cut the slack
The entire modern world is a very large scope
So the players would be
US
Britain
Iraq
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Israel
Egypt
Turkey
Russia
I don't see China to play any part in this scenario though.
Map extends from Asia Minor to Afghanistan (W-E) and from Chechnya to tip of the arabian peninsula.+Egypt
Everyone is fighting just for one resource Oil, which is used to make all the fighting vehicles (Tanks, Planes, Ships)
And in the year 2016, a barbarian city pops out and announces that in 4 years time, they will launch a nuke at every city on the globe. (scripted). And the only way it can be taken out (no nukes for players) because it will be so well defended is if all the countries unite.
PLA is the name of the Chinese Army. People's Liberation Army.
I have never heard of the Sjiite sect in Islam, I have however heard of the Shi'ite Sect, or the Shiah sect (I think this spelling is more common).?
Isn't the name of Yitzak Rabin just Yitzak Rabin. Doesn't the Al as prefix mean from Rabin, and is Arabic. Yitzak Rabin is a Jew.
Maybe, we should only focus on the Middle East so as to cut the slack
The entire modern world is a very large scope
So the players would be
US
Britain
Iraq
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Israel
Egypt
Turkey
Russia
I don't see China to play any part in this scenario though.
Map extends from Asia Minor to Afghanistan (W-E) and from Chechnya to tip of the arabian peninsula.+Egypt
Everyone is fighting just for one resource Oil, which is used to make all the fighting vehicles (Tanks, Planes, Ships)
And in the year 2016, a barbarian city pops out and announces that in 4 years time, they will launch a nuke at every city on the globe. (scripted). And the only way it can be taken out (no nukes for players) because it will be so well defended is if all the countries unite.
I think this is an excellent Idea. I was thinking of making the same kinda scenario, but I got put off. With the editing part.
Anyway what I would like to say is you must include Pakistan as a playable civilization.
Say, part of Baluchistan revolts near the Afghan broader an ally themselves with Osama, the US gets worried so they send troops to India to secure Pakistan's nuclear installations. This is just an Idea.
But if you want some Ideas with respect to the mod maybe I can help you.
I think it should be scripted out first before you actually try an make it.
But this can work, if say, Some Muslim nations sponsor freedom fighters/terrorists, or what ever you want to call them, i.e by having barbarian's and the sponsoring nations giving them arms like troops. By donating to them, by sending troops into their boarders and handing them over to them.
I think it would be more logical if the terrorists/freedoms, take over unstable places like parts of Iraq, Chechnya, Usbk, Kashmir etc.
What can make it better say once a part of the nation is taken over by the terrorists/freedom fighters. say for the main nation there production slows down, and the freedom fighters/errorists get to capture their tanks and stuff like that.
P.S, with Pakistan it will be good Idea to have, SSG elite Commandos and Al-Khaild Tanks as unique units.
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/
Anyway what I would like to say is you must include Pakistan as a playable civilization.
Say, part of Baluchistan revolts near the Afghan broader an ally themselves with Osama, the US gets worried so they send troops to India to secure Pakistan's nuclear installations. This is just an Idea.
But if you want some Ideas with respect to the mod maybe I can help you.
I think it should be scripted out first before you actually try an make it.
But this can work, if say, Some Muslim nations sponsor freedom fighters/terrorists, or what ever you want to call them, i.e by having barbarian's and the sponsoring nations giving them arms like troops. By donating to them, by sending troops into their boarders and handing them over to them.
I think it would be more logical if the terrorists/freedoms, take over unstable places like parts of Iraq, Chechnya, Usbk, Kashmir etc.
What can make it better say once a part of the nation is taken over by the terrorists/freedom fighters. say for the main nation there production slows down, and the freedom fighters/errorists get to capture their tanks and stuff like that.
P.S, with Pakistan it will be good Idea to have, SSG elite Commandos and Al-Khaild Tanks as unique units.
http://www.pakistanidefence.com/
Tahuti
Writing Deity
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fastspawn said:
I had in mind that China will send troops to Kirgizstan (Where a terrorist revolt start that would threathen China) very late in scenario. That would make sense, North Korea could start as China's ally and finally use nukes and a formidable army that against China to create a challenge.
Chechnya, Pakistan and Libya will also be in! (As playable nation).
