JG99_Korab
King
ok thanks. I just thought you had to overwrite your main files.
Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.0
- Thread starter embryodead
- Start date
Neo-Dragoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6
My father and I have been playing this mod religiously for the past month, and these were the the issues that stood out in our minds:
The biggest is the Dwarves. They really don't seem to have anything going for them at all, esspecially because they are so udderly dependent on iron. The toughness of their foot units (+1 or +2 hp) isn't really special when orcs and chaos get units like their Ogres, beastemen, and trolls that don't require a resource to build. The gyrocopter, saltpeter units, and airship are decent, but they're just too little too late. Perhaps, just to give them a unique edge, Dwarf foot units could be allowed to pass through mountains?
AI wise Chaos and the Dwarves both play very passively early game and half the time seem to stiffle completely and barely expand. Looking at my games with them as foes, I noticed they weren't hooked up to horses or iron and didn't really have any available. Both of those civs don't really have a designated offensive unit, especially early game, without horses and/or iron. It might help the AI function a bit better for races that don't get an archer offense unit with balistics to play better if they had an alternative, like the Marauder and the Dwarf 6/4/1 (the name escapes me at the moment) not requiring iron.
The Dolgan's Horse Archer is rather sad for being their golden age unit. Requiring 10 less shields to build compared to other Horse archers isn't really enough to set it apart for them. Perhaps they could be allowed to have their horse archer sooner then military training at Riding or Balistics? They seem like an early conquest civ, and having played them, they really struggle later game if the other civs had time to develope.
And maybe someone has said it before, but if the Slann Mage Priest can bombard offensively, why are all the other 'caster' units defensive fire only? Even with a bombard range of 1 I'd be more inclined to use them. As it is right now, I'll make an entire army of Slann mage-priests as the Lizardmen, and won't even wast time building units like the Damsel, Sorcerer, Shaman, etc as the other races, except maybe the Khemri's Liche because that far into the game it's (sadly) the most powerful unit they get until dragons.
Or would it be possible to allow casters to carry a spell? Flag them to transport tactical missiles, flag the spells tactical missiles, and set their transport to 1. I'm pretty sure that will work. The downside is they couldn't board ships anymore, so that seems like a 6 in 1 half dozen in the other trade off to me.
Casters could be allowed to use wizard towers and spelltowers to teleport to make up for not being shippable? The trouble with the spelltower is it can't be built in hostile territory. So by the time you could build one to stage spells and use them offensively, the front line will have probably moved back out of spell reach except maybe lightning bolts. Even trying to do that by using recently captured slaves wasn't even close to being useful when a city could be taken or built.
Of course, this is just the thoughts of 2 people, and I know our play styles are probably radically different from many other people's. So... I hope these suggestions aren't taken badly. They are just lil things we believed could bring even more fun to a great mod. (Sorry if any of this has been brought up before, it takes a long time to catch up on the history of this mod's developement.)
The biggest is the Dwarves. They really don't seem to have anything going for them at all, esspecially because they are so udderly dependent on iron. The toughness of their foot units (+1 or +2 hp) isn't really special when orcs and chaos get units like their Ogres, beastemen, and trolls that don't require a resource to build. The gyrocopter, saltpeter units, and airship are decent, but they're just too little too late. Perhaps, just to give them a unique edge, Dwarf foot units could be allowed to pass through mountains?
AI wise Chaos and the Dwarves both play very passively early game and half the time seem to stiffle completely and barely expand. Looking at my games with them as foes, I noticed they weren't hooked up to horses or iron and didn't really have any available. Both of those civs don't really have a designated offensive unit, especially early game, without horses and/or iron. It might help the AI function a bit better for races that don't get an archer offense unit with balistics to play better if they had an alternative, like the Marauder and the Dwarf 6/4/1 (the name escapes me at the moment) not requiring iron.
The Dolgan's Horse Archer is rather sad for being their golden age unit. Requiring 10 less shields to build compared to other Horse archers isn't really enough to set it apart for them. Perhaps they could be allowed to have their horse archer sooner then military training at Riding or Balistics? They seem like an early conquest civ, and having played them, they really struggle later game if the other civs had time to develope.
And maybe someone has said it before, but if the Slann Mage Priest can bombard offensively, why are all the other 'caster' units defensive fire only? Even with a bombard range of 1 I'd be more inclined to use them. As it is right now, I'll make an entire army of Slann mage-priests as the Lizardmen, and won't even wast time building units like the Damsel, Sorcerer, Shaman, etc as the other races, except maybe the Khemri's Liche because that far into the game it's (sadly) the most powerful unit they get until dragons.
Or would it be possible to allow casters to carry a spell? Flag them to transport tactical missiles, flag the spells tactical missiles, and set their transport to 1. I'm pretty sure that will work. The downside is they couldn't board ships anymore, so that seems like a 6 in 1 half dozen in the other trade off to me.
Casters could be allowed to use wizard towers and spelltowers to teleport to make up for not being shippable? The trouble with the spelltower is it can't be built in hostile territory. So by the time you could build one to stage spells and use them offensively, the front line will have probably moved back out of spell reach except maybe lightning bolts. Even trying to do that by using recently captured slaves wasn't even close to being useful when a city could be taken or built.
Of course, this is just the thoughts of 2 people, and I know our play styles are probably radically different from many other people's. So... I hope these suggestions aren't taken badly. They are just lil things we believed could bring even more fun to a great mod. (Sorry if any of this has been brought up before, it takes a long time to catch up on the history of this mod's developement.)
Billy Rubin
breakdown product of HB
@Neo Dragoon: Carrying spells for wizards was implemented in an earlier version of the mod which I've played and removing it was some improvement from my POV, because of them being not shippable - it actually completely wasted the Slann imho - but making them teleportable by spelltowers could really make up for that for the human player.
The problem I see in that, however is that I've never seen the AI build a spell tower - so it would be even more crippled by that.
Dolgans - only played them once and did quite well, and in my usual campaigns, they tend to do extremely well because they waste most of teir neighbours before they can defend properly - especially if the Dolgans have war mammoths. I tend to keep them out in most of my games because I like having lots of different civs in the game to the late stages and the Dolgans kill them off very rapidly...
I don't say it's unbalanced - they're just meant to be strong barbarians who can steamroll everything in the beginning and struggle in the end, because of their lack of culture/intellect...
I agree that something should be done about the dwarves in the early stages of the game - they're just boring to play for a human inho (maybe it's just me), because all they get for 90 percent of the game is a slow moving guy with slightly different stats - when they get their new units late in the game, it's allmost over before finishing the production of their first more interesting units (i.e. if quest victory is enabled). Still love them as a part of my games, but playing them is highly unattractive, imho - and I can't imagine someone enjoying them for more than one game...
The problem I see in that, however is that I've never seen the AI build a spell tower - so it would be even more crippled by that.
Dolgans - only played them once and did quite well, and in my usual campaigns, they tend to do extremely well because they waste most of teir neighbours before they can defend properly - especially if the Dolgans have war mammoths. I tend to keep them out in most of my games because I like having lots of different civs in the game to the late stages and the Dolgans kill them off very rapidly...
I don't say it's unbalanced - they're just meant to be strong barbarians who can steamroll everything in the beginning and struggle in the end, because of their lack of culture/intellect...
I agree that something should be done about the dwarves in the early stages of the game - they're just boring to play for a human inho (maybe it's just me), because all they get for 90 percent of the game is a slow moving guy with slightly different stats - when they get their new units late in the game, it's allmost over before finishing the production of their first more interesting units (i.e. if quest victory is enabled). Still love them as a part of my games, but playing them is highly unattractive, imho - and I can't imagine someone enjoying them for more than one game...
First I must thank all involved in making this mod. I have played all the civ-games including alpha centauri and call to power and I must say that this is the best mod that I ever had the pleasure to play.
Now one question: Do you civfanatics always end up a bit behind in the technology-race compared the the other fractions. I always do and I play on some of the difficult levels above the average but not the hardest (cant remember exactly which). When I play a regular game or other mods I dont have this problem. I think it is really fun and challeging I just wonder if is it because of the mod or am I a bad ruler?
Now one question: Do you civfanatics always end up a bit behind in the technology-race compared the the other fractions. I always do and I play on some of the difficult levels above the average but not the hardest (cant remember exactly which). When I play a regular game or other mods I dont have this problem. I think it is really fun and challeging I just wonder if is it because of the mod or am I a bad ruler?
chocmushroom
Warlord
Well, I was playing one game where I had the Black library, and I found that I was always getting the tech for free and not able to keep up with the research myself. This is due to the fact other civs trade tech with each other a lot motr than they will with you. I always find that I can keep up for the 1st 2 ages, but by the third, I get left behind.
Also, what race are you playing? The monachy races have better research, & can get more city improvements to give research.
The worst I ever found was when i started a game with Dark-elves. I built a warrior, then settler as my 1st 2 units. I came across 2 ruins and got 2 free techs
Then I meet the Empire, and was 5 cities and 6 techs behind
I don't know how they start so fast myself
Also, what race are you playing? The monachy races have better research, & can get more city improvements to give research.
The worst I ever found was when i started a game with Dark-elves. I built a warrior, then settler as my 1st 2 units. I came across 2 ruins and got 2 free techs
Then I meet the Empire, and was 5 cities and 6 techs behind
I don't know how they start so fast myself
DemonMaster
A.K.A. Fenhorn
If you noticed when you try to trade a tech to other civs, they sometimes offer 10 gold for it ?. If the AI doesn't think it is worth more, then we can have a thought or two what the prices are when the AI civs trade with each other, what one civs think is worthless the other values and so on and after a while the end up with probably the same number of techs which is most often a couple of more than you have.
This is a guess, but I think this is what happens.
This is a guess, but I think this is what happens.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Noticed something weird in my current game; a bit into the third era, it appears the Dwarfs have built no cultural things whatsoever outside their capital; no expanded city borders. That's not supposed to happen, is it?
They've also been pursuing that most unusual of AI strategies; naval dominance. They don't have timber, and are thus stuck with Boats, but they've got so many against them that naval war against them is practically hopeless. Any War Galley that ends a turn outside my harbours dies, pretty much. Unfortunately for them, our continents are connected by a land bridge. I probably could defeat their fleet if I set all my coastal cities to churn out War Galleys, but it would take forever.
They've also been pursuing that most unusual of AI strategies; naval dominance. They don't have timber, and are thus stuck with Boats, but they've got so many against them that naval war against them is practically hopeless. Any War Galley that ends a turn outside my harbours dies, pretty much. Unfortunately for them, our continents are connected by a land bridge. I probably could defeat their fleet if I set all my coastal cities to churn out War Galleys, but it would take forever.
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
I've noticed that too, it happens in about 50% of my games with them. It seems culture/happiness, for some reason, is a very low priority to them.The Last Conformist said:
aaglo
Furioso!
Could it be, that they see it better to have lots of units (and use the tax income?) to paying them instead of building cultural improvements? Can that happen, if they have high priority on defensive or offensive units?
About the tech issue where you end up behind. You are absolutly right unless i start next to a bunch of other civs i get left behind fairly quickly. Im deffinatly not the best player (I play on Regent 
) but its the same in Rhyes of Civilisation European nations trade more than others because there are more of them and thus shoot ahead. Though in that game i have managed to get in front of them tech wise as persia via wheeling and dealing tactics.
So im sure some players are so awesome they always leave the computers behind but for us the best way to keep up is trade and trade often. Check every so often to see if they have anything new and always check when you have just researched something.
On dwarves i really dont know i have never played them and in my games they are rarely a problem when it comes to butchering their people and taking their cities. IMO they should be able to move over Mountains as they well, Dwarves. If they cant build cities in the mountains then they should be able to walk on them.
As always these are just my opinions and stratagies if you can call them that.
) but its the same in Rhyes of Civilisation European nations trade more than others because there are more of them and thus shoot ahead. Though in that game i have managed to get in front of them tech wise as persia via wheeling and dealing tactics.So im sure some players are so awesome they always leave the computers behind but for us the best way to keep up is trade and trade often. Check every so often to see if they have anything new and always check when you have just researched something.
On dwarves i really dont know i have never played them and in my games they are rarely a problem when it comes to butchering their people and taking their cities. IMO they should be able to move over Mountains as they well, Dwarves. If they cant build cities in the mountains then they should be able to walk on them.
As always these are just my opinions and stratagies if you can call them that.
Kinboat
Conan the Librarian
I've noticed the same with the dwarves... both the lack of culture and the large navy (I wasn't so lucky and they had timber... my ships didn't stand a chance).
chocmushroom:
The fast start could be because of the difficulty. Some settings give the AI extra units (including Settlers if I recall).
chocmushroom:
The fast start could be because of the difficulty. Some settings give the AI extra units (including Settlers if I recall).
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I looked around in the Editor for clues to their apparent allergy to culture, but didn't find any obvious ones. I do note they've got "Science" on the Build Often list checked, which, one and are Scientific, which rather might've been expected to make them build the old Library.
Misfit_travel
Emperor
One of the ways to get the most out of your tech research is to figure out what the civ's around you AREN'T researching, and go for that. Thus is you know the tech preferences of our nearest neighbours, you go for techs they won't research right away.
That lets you leverage the few techs you do research and allows you to trade for techs you don't have.
Obviously you need to have a fair bit of experience playing the mod to make use of this knowledge in the first place......
Misfit
That lets you leverage the few techs you do research and allows you to trade for techs you don't have.
Obviously you need to have a fair bit of experience playing the mod to make use of this knowledge in the first place......
Misfit
Neo-Dragoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2004
- Messages
- 6
There are a few things you can do to really help your Tech along:
- Explore like nuts. Get a few units running around to gobble up every goodie hut you can. It also can find you more civs that may want to trade (the cathay always seem to love me, and I have great tech trade success with them) and knowing the terrain and location of other civs is a good idea anyway.
- When trying to get techs from the AI players: Go for techs they don't have first (as Misfit Travel said), this will incline them to come to you and offer a straight tech for tech trade. If you go to them for a tech, they usually want 2-5 times more, so be prepared to pay a hefty price.
- Expland like crazy as soon as you can. If this means an early war to take over another civ, or just popping out settlers when ever a city is a 3 or higher, then do it. The more cities you have, the stronger your nation will be in general.
- Roads Roads Roads and Roads. I usually have a 2 workers together per city to develope the terrain. Start on the prime spots like grassland with resources. For tech/income, try to develope on squares touching a river first for that yummy +1 trade bonus.
- Hit F1. Look at the top center of the screen. There should be a little bar you can adjust that changes how much of your funding goes towards science. Early game when I'm making chump change (less then 10 gold) a turn, I crank science as much as I can to break even on costs. In this mod, research can't go faster then 4 turns, or slower then 50 turns. Adjust your science cost with each tech (and even each turn) and you can keep the money pouring in while still doing most techs in 4 turns.
About the Dwarf Issue:
I have noticed this as well, and I believe it is due to a lack of Iron, which they need for -EVERY- unit they can make except boats and Clansmen. The AI seems to get flustered when it doesn't have any units designated for offense to build. (Chaos does this sometimes as well with no strategic resources until the Chaos Troll, but they at least build Herdstones.)
Try setting the Hammerer unit to not require Iron and see if that helps. I tried this for the latest game I have going and the Dwarf player seems much more willing to expand and explore (Hammerers are running around the map looking for dungeons, etc like the rest of the civs use groups of archers for). Unfortunately, they still won't build much for culture, but that may change as I get farther into the game.
- Explore like nuts. Get a few units running around to gobble up every goodie hut you can. It also can find you more civs that may want to trade (the cathay always seem to love me, and I have great tech trade success with them) and knowing the terrain and location of other civs is a good idea anyway.
- When trying to get techs from the AI players: Go for techs they don't have first (as Misfit Travel said), this will incline them to come to you and offer a straight tech for tech trade. If you go to them for a tech, they usually want 2-5 times more, so be prepared to pay a hefty price.
- Expland like crazy as soon as you can. If this means an early war to take over another civ, or just popping out settlers when ever a city is a 3 or higher, then do it. The more cities you have, the stronger your nation will be in general.
- Roads Roads Roads and Roads. I usually have a 2 workers together per city to develope the terrain. Start on the prime spots like grassland with resources. For tech/income, try to develope on squares touching a river first for that yummy +1 trade bonus.
- Hit F1. Look at the top center of the screen. There should be a little bar you can adjust that changes how much of your funding goes towards science. Early game when I'm making chump change (less then 10 gold) a turn, I crank science as much as I can to break even on costs. In this mod, research can't go faster then 4 turns, or slower then 50 turns. Adjust your science cost with each tech (and even each turn) and you can keep the money pouring in while still doing most techs in 4 turns.
About the Dwarf Issue:
I have noticed this as well, and I believe it is due to a lack of Iron, which they need for -EVERY- unit they can make except boats and Clansmen. The AI seems to get flustered when it doesn't have any units designated for offense to build. (Chaos does this sometimes as well with no strategic resources until the Chaos Troll, but they at least build Herdstones.)
Try setting the Hammerer unit to not require Iron and see if that helps. I tried this for the latest game I have going and the Dwarf player seems much more willing to expand and explore (Hammerers are running around the map looking for dungeons, etc like the rest of the civs use groups of archers for). Unfortunately, they still won't build much for culture, but that may change as I get farther into the game.
About the Dwarves...
I will try the change with hammerers...
I made another successful change...enabled dwarves to go into the mountains...I mean dwarves and mountain...they are linked...well, anyhow...it worked well...they expanded and built culture...
And another thing...about Lizardmen...I play them IRL and I have played high elves before..hm...just one thing...both skinks and kroxigors are faster than elves on foot...so enableing them a move on 2 should be a fair deal...
I will try the change with hammerers...
I made another successful change...enabled dwarves to go into the mountains...I mean dwarves and mountain...they are linked...well, anyhow...it worked well...they expanded and built culture...
And another thing...about Lizardmen...I play them IRL and I have played high elves before..hm...just one thing...both skinks and kroxigors are faster than elves on foot...so enableing them a move on 2 should be a fair deal...
Help!
I keep getting when I try to start the mod:
File Not Found
"Net Art\Flics\Borgio_01.flc"
I've got C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios\Net Art\Flics open right now and I'm staring right at Borgio_01.flc - I don't understand.
I have Conquests, obviously, and it's patched; I also installed the WH2 patch.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Brian
I keep getting when I try to start the mod:
File Not Found
"Net Art\Flics\Borgio_01.flc"
I've got C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios\Net Art\Flics open right now and I'm staring right at Borgio_01.flc - I don't understand.
I have Conquests, obviously, and it's patched; I also installed the WH2 patch.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Brian
embryodead
Caliph
@bkwrm79
It seems to me that you either moved the folders or installed the mod manually (i.e. by copying the files from someone?). Net Art folder should not be in Scenarios folder. The executable installer puts it inside the Conquests folders, and that is where you should put it to fix your problem. Have a fun game then
Version 2.1 is ummm.. coming!
It seems to me that you either moved the folders or installed the mod manually (i.e. by copying the files from someone?). Net Art folder should not be in Scenarios folder. The executable installer puts it inside the Conquests folders, and that is where you should put it to fix your problem. Have a fun game then
Version 2.1 is ummm.. coming!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
@Neo-Dragoon: In my game, the Dwarfs did have iron, and I encountered more than a few Hammerers as I laid waste to their cities.
embryodead said:@bkwrm79
It seems to me that you either moved the folders or installed the mod manually (i.e. by copying the files from someone?). Net Art folder should not be in Scenarios folder. The executable installer puts it inside the Conquests folders, and that is where you should put it to fix your problem. Have a fun game then
Version 2.1 is ummm.. coming!
Thanks!
I installed to the wrong folder and then moved the files, apparently I didn't move them all correctly. I moved that folder back where it's supposed to be and it works! Looks pretty cool.
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