Warhammer Fantasy Mod 2.1

[mrtn]

Thanks Guys, I'll try to fix it in Photoshop

I am playing the latest version 2.18

There are some more questions regarding bugs.

- Why are there 2 aries in the library?

By library, do you mean the civilopedia? Aries=Armies??? That's because of the Waaagh!

- The library mentions the giant spider as a barbarian unit, but I've never seen it, only the Skaven.
- Boar boyz are not mentioned to have +1HP in the library, neither do the squiggoths the +2HP.
- Are Boar Chariots supposed to be as strong as +2HP? In that case 50 is quite cheap I think.
- The library says Goblins spearmen are only available to Goblins and Orcs, but what about the Chaos dwarves. Is it because with the CD they don't upgrade to Orc Spearmen?.

Old info in the pedia.
I suppose that the 2 HPs for the boar chariot is one from being a boar and one from being a chariot, but I think it was Mr. Do who added that.

- Regarding the Amazone slaves, since they work with half speed, I reckon they do not demand support (it doesent mention in the library). Perhaps 0 Shields and 1 pop cost could be better??

Amazon slaves won't (or don't) cost upkeep.

 

[Stormrage]

Well if you unwrapp that map like a normal one, I think the Ungols would be Hung..
If you rename the Dolgans into Kurgan, what`s the point of the Chaos civ then? It would be like turning Chaos in the Beasts of Chaos civ, and there isn`t enough units for that...
Also, that article states that the Kurgans are equally good in fighting on foot and mounted, so if this is true, the Dolgans, a Kurgan tribe are not all horse-men-archer-type warriors..
Also, civ3 is an alt-history game, and so are the mods, you can`t make a mod that would act exactly according to history. And so, if they all start in the ancient era, then Ungols and Kislev are not merged, if you play with Kislev and conquer the Ungols, than you can call it "merging of civs"

Also, I`ve read somewhere that the Ungol Empire (khanat, whatever) is the largest (not the most powerfull) one in the world. I think I`ve got this from an unofficial WH timeline article, but I`m not sure...

 

[Dracleath]

Nah ungols and kislev are on the eastern steppes, between the empire, dark lands, and chaos.

ed- the hung are on the naggaroth/"north america" side.

 

[Stormrage]

Yeah, it seems you are right. I think Ungols are not Hung. Are Ungols even chaotic? I googled a bit, it seems they do not worship Chaos..
As for Dolgans...
I don`t get it... Why did ED do this? He gave us a Chaos Civ... and then another civ which is actually a sub-tribe of one of the tribes that make Chaos... and for that one he picked a sub-tribe that is almost identical to the Ungols (not in the mod, but in WH).
Norsca is partially chaotic, and even if it was all chaotic, its still a big tribe, like the Kurgan, and the Hung (and it has lots of cool units ). Dolgans on the other hand, are very unit-poor, and doomed when their neighbours reach the second age. And not even chaotic! In the mod, that is.

DAMN! this is the second version of this edit, cause I`ve accidently deleted the first one.. GRRR..
The Dolgans don`t deserve to be a civ of their own. Maybe we should merge them with Chaos? The Keshik could be the new marauder horseman? Actually, that is all of the merging since their other UU`s are the Shaman which I wouldn`t put with Chaos because of some reasons that you`ll read later in the text, and the Tracker. The Tracker should actually be a Norse DoW unit - the bearmen of Urslo.

And this has also been bothering me. If you discover magic at the end of an era (in this case the 1.), shouldn`t the next era be the Age of Magic? My point is, why not move the Magic tech at the end of the 2. era, and make a single mage-unit with the stats of the upgraded version. The magic and the high-magic units share gfx, and thats why I wouldn`t give the Shaman to Chaos, since I suggest removing the upgrade (and he would have to upgrade to a Sith lord).

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

OK.
firstly, i have the OFFICIAL warhammer world map sitting next to me,

Secondly, the Hung are an asin race that is located mostly directly above Cathay and in part of northern Naggaroth.

Third, the Kurgan we can quite safely say are the chaos, because they live in the chaos wastes north of the Empire, and the Dark Lands. Any one who live in the Wastes long enough is going to end up becoming Chaos, ie ruled by Deamons.

Fourth, on this map there are 2 separate races, Norsca and the Norse in my oppinion, because Norsca is separated from the chaos wates by an icy sea, they cannot be chaotic, and their cousins the Norse (who traveled across the aforementioned sea into the Chaos Wastes) are becoming Chaotic.

(sorry but i just had to say all that )

oh and about the map im working on, i can change the rules to the latest that Mr.Do and Aaglo have posted, thats easy, but im still having trouble posting it onto this forum. any help would be greatly appreciate

Oh and one last thing, i was thinking this morning, would it be possible to have mor then only 5 city types, as in more then just the American, Asian, Middle Eastern, Mediteranian, and European cities, because if we could, we could use Mrtn's (because i think they look kick-ass) Oriental cities for Cathay, Nippon, and the Ungols; we could use Mrtn's Medieval cities for the old world races (brettonia, empire), we could keep the Middle eastern cities for Khemri and Araby and such; and keep the elven cities and dwarven cities; but the biggest thing i dont like, is that the Lizardmen have those evil cities which i think should only be for the chaos, and orcs and gobbos. Is it possible to have an ancient american city type, with great big stepped pyramids and little straw huts for the lizerd men and Amxonians. (yes that is how you spell Amaxonian, because the live on the river Amaxon, not Amazon )

sorry, my quick post tuned into a lecture

 

[Stormrage]

All of them make Chaos - Kurgan, Hung and Norse... I think everyone agrees on that.
The issue was were the Ungols a Hung tribe..., some if us think they aren`t and even Gomurr who brought it up said he wasn`t sure and that he could be wrong... And the second issue was why are the Dolgans a civ in the first place?

And about the cities, you can bet your ass that in the next few posts there will be one from mrtn, and it will say: "no, its hardcoded"

Oh, and if they call them Amazons on the Conquest of the New World site, then they are called Amazons. Amazons are also mentioned in the ancient hellenistic world... and well... do I really need to continue?

 

[Dracleath]

Hmm, Are there any lesser demon type units that would fit for second age troops? Dolgans could be chaos marauders while chaos now was demons of chaos.

Even if there aren't I think you could still make a decent distinction.

You could leave chaos as it is now pretty much. They already have a few demonic troops. An appearence here somewhere by the great unclean one would be nice. Kinboat's beholder would also make a nice enough chaos spawn. The religious and demonic stuff should be the main focus here.


Then you could take dolgans as they are now, change to chaos gov, change the shaman to a chaos warlock (I think the tracker is probably fine as is but it would also work as a norse dogs of war unit). Allow them to use beastmen and add the chaos warrior and knight to their unit list. If you're having them be a composite of the Kurgan and Hung the Hun unit would also fit in here, and they could keep the horse archer instead of the chaos chariot. Leave the chaos incursion tech out for them, that should be the domain of chaos proper. Add maybe lesser demons in the place of the lesser dragons, but leave in the big dragon to represent chaos dragons. Leave the other third age stuff as is.

Then you'd end up with two fairly distinct civs, a marauder civ and a demons of chaos civ.

 

[Gomurr]

The Ungols are NOT hung, they are in fact part of kislev itself. They're on the other side of the world from the hung.


See:

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/kislev/background/default.htm

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/hordesofchaos/extras/map/default.htm

Maybe the dolgans should be renamed the Kurgan and given demon/chaos warrior access?

And the ungols are part of kislev, not sure why they are a civ, maybe they could be renamed the hung and also given access to some chaos stuff?

Ed: And then we could give them both chaos government and nerf the slave pits a bit to 25% maybe to balance out the governments. And it would make a point to the beastman resource because they could both have some beastman access.

In light of this new information on the Ungols, which I had not encountered before, I see they are not appropriate to represent the Hung, nor are they deserving a civ of their own. Really, the Dolgans and the Ungols are insignificant tribes, while the Kurgan and the Hung (which really don't need to be any different from these two civs in leaderheads or units) ought to be present. As such I agree with the suggestions presented by Dracleath, though I would recommend reserving demons and chaos men for Chaos, as the humans of the Ungols and Dolgans could represent the human chaos warriors of the Kurgan and Hung, but allowing for beastmen to be recruited to their cause. Demons seem reserved to the upper-most portions of the Chaotic North, and so I think they should be the unique provence of the Chaos civ. In short, I question the presence of the Dolgans and Ungols, and think they should be renamed the Kurgan and Hung respectively and made chaotic civs with access to Beastmen, though not necessarily demons (maybe make demons accessible with warpstone?).

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

@Stormrage: Point taken about the Amazons, i withdraw my previous comment pity about the cities though...

I agree with Dracleath and Gomurr on their points about the Dolgans and the Ungols. I second Gomurrs idea of renaming the Dolgans to Kurgan, and the Ungols to Hung, this would also allow for a more even dispersal of races on a world map, not all concentrated in the old world.

I was going over my Warhammer map again, and noticed that there is a place called "fabled Lumbria" east of Nippon and West of Naggaroth, just wandering if anyone has any info on that, it would be interesting if there was another race out there...

 

[Stormrage]

Does Kislev have a Horse Archer unit? Or just the Kossar? I.e. as a reference to their interaction with the Ungols, and 2 of them making one civ.

And let me see if I got this straight:
You would have a Kurgan civ (old Dolgan), a Hung civ (old Ungol) and a Chaos civ? Wouldn`t that be like having a Germany civ, and Prussia and say Bavaria as their own civs along with it?

There is another lesser daemon unit (from WH40k, but it`s not futuristic in any way), I posted a link to it a few pages back, It`s not top notch, but I`ve seen worse.


I suggest this - renaming Chaos to Kurgan (Kurgan tribes of Chaos, maybe?), and renaming Ungols to Hung (tribes of bla), and making it more chaotic, maybe give them the lesser daemon I suggested instead of the current Deathclaw, and replacing the Balrog with a Chaos Dragon (maybe someone can C`n`P another head?). Beastman would be available to both. They would keep their old horse archers, and maybe get Dom`s Hun for an infantry unit, and R8XFT`s asian swordsman for their version of the marauder. There is also that Buffalo warrior unit, I think it isn`t finished but it has all the props for Kinboats paper doll, If someone could give him a pike and some pants, he would be great for a Chaos 2. defense unit!
So now you can pick if you want to play the foot chaos (no gym sock jokes! ), or the horseman chaos - the Kurgan and the Hung.

 

[Frostyboy]

By library, do you mean the civilopedia? Aries=Armies??? That's because of the Waaagh!

Yes, I meant Armies And in the Civilopedia.
So the Waagh armies are automatical regarded as a unique unit?

And the Giant spiders???

By the way - After the separation of Orc of Goblins regarding chariots and cavalery - which unit is now the one triggering GA for the Orcs?

 

[Gomurr]

Does Kislev have a Horse Archer unit? Or just the Kossar? I.e. as a reference to their interaction with the Ungols.

They do have a horse archer, unless it was removed since the last time I played as Kislev. Its Civilopedia reference does descrive it as being an Ungol guy of some sort, and I think it upgrades to the Winged Lancer.

And let me see if I got this straight:
You would have a Kurgan civ (old Dolgan), a Hung civ (old Ungol) and a Chaos civ? Wouldn`t that be like having a Germany civ, and Prussia and say Bavaria as their own civs along with it?

I would have it that way, and no, it would not be like having Germany, Prussia and Bavaria as their own civs. It would be more like having Germany, Japan and Italy (as the Axis of WWII). They are three (usually) allied yet distinct groups, though they often go to war together. Chaos is the northermost tribes, those that live in the Chaos wastelands and are most corrupted by chaos. As I understand it, they are the Chaos Knights and Champions, the demons, and peoples devoted entirely to Chaos. The Kurgan are a largely human people, though I'm pretty sure that I've seen things claiming they ally with centaurs and beastmen, who worship the Chaos Gods. They aren't the hard-core Chaos, as I understand it, they think of Demons in primitive terms rather than as allies and rivals for the approval of the Chaos Gods as the men of the Chaos civ would. While Chaos tribes are ruled by demons, the men of the Kurgan tribes seem to be ruled by human champions chosen by the Chaos Gods from within their own tribes. The Kurgan are the most eager of men to march to war with Chaos, but their armies are human, possibly supplimented by beastmen, but not the blend of man, beast, monster and demon that you'd see from the Chaos civ. Finally, the Hung are the another human people, less closely tied to Chaos and less eager to march to war under the Chaos banner. They worship Chaos Gods, I assume, though it might not be an exclusively chaotic worship, and I doubt they even have beastmen in their army. They're primarily a threat to Cathay and Naggaroth, but few in the Old World have faced them in combat. I'll admit, some of this is conjecture, but it should suffice to illustrate how having these as seperate civs is merited, and not equivalent to giving three civs to one nation.

 

[Stormrage]

Thanks for clearing that one up for me
So Chaos stays as it is, the Dolgans go Kurgan (+ they get centaurs and beastmen) and Ungols go Hung.
Would the Hung stay the same as Ungols? Same units that is?
If the WH 2.1 team says no to all this, I guess it has to go the WH discussion thread too

Hey, what about recoloring the Uruk-hai`s skin? The armored one? Would he fit well in some of the chaos civs as infantry?

 

[Gomurr]

Hey, what about recoloring the Uruk-hai`s skin? The armored one? Would he fit well in some of the chaos civs as infantry?

I don't know if you're talking about the Uruk-hai warrior or the beserker, but I know I have one or both in use for the Hobgoblin Hegemony.

 

[Stormrage]

The armored one -warrior, berserkers only has a helmet. His armor looks weird and chaotic. And he serves as what, an Orc, in you HH civ? Even tough he is not green? Why not just replace him with one of aaglo`s boyz?

@Frostyboy - Giant spiders were the advanced barbarian unit before the Skaven were made. The civilopedia just has to be updated on that.

 

[Dracleath]

Well, the hung were horse archers and horsemen IIRC, also they were largely associated with Slanesh and the dark elves. Was there a succubus unit somewhere? I thought someone made one, if so they could make nice demonettes.

 

[Stormrage]

Succubus? I don`t think so...
Can someone please tell me what IIRC stands for!? If I see it one more time, and not understand it, there`ll be some serious freaking out with a huge axe!

 

[Frostyboy]

@Frostyboy - Giant spiders were the advanced barbarian unit before the Skaven were made. The civilopedia just has to be updated on that.

But New Graphics are included. The old spider ha been switched with a new one. Why is that if it is not used anymore (there are 3 different spiders in WH 2.1 - Black Widows, Forest Spiders and Giant Spiders)

 

[kairob]

Fourth, on this map there are 2 separate races, Norsca and the Norse in my oppinion, because Norsca is separated from the chaos wates by an icy sea, they cannot be chaotic, and their cousins the Norse (who traveled across the aforementioned sea into the Chaos Wastes) are becoming Chaotic.

.

The Norse live in Norsca and are a chaotic people, they are more focused on the marauder side of things and have little to do with deamons. They are mentioned twice on the map as one referes to the place Norsca and the second indicates that the predominant tribes in that area are norse.

Do your Dark elves represent the followers of Khaine or the Cult of Slaanesh?

p.s. I like the Idea of kurgan and Hung

 

[Frostyboy]

WAAAAAAAAHG!!!!

I just found out that the Orcs don't have a unit that starts Golden Age anymore. It dissapeard when the 2.18 patch was made and Orc and Goblins Shared GA unit went over to Goblins only

I am playing them now and now I don't get the GA (and can't start it with wonders either in my game )

I reckommend Boar Boyz as their GA unit.

Also I reckommend to put down Boar Chariots from +2HP to +1HP since the goblin chariot has the same stats on average and cost the same but only gets +1HP