Was life really that bad in the Soviet Union?

[Lone Wolf]

"Russia, too, depends too much on the emotions..."

You betcha, its called nationalism and you can find it everywhere especialy in a place saturated with "Lost Empire Syndrome"!

If Russia invades Georgia - now, this will be really nationalistic a la Hiler. Instead, Russia just keeps status-quo. The situation in Russian-Georgian affairs develops nowhere. Russian giverment just promotes primitive anti-Georgian hysteria, which, fortunately, is not so lound now. I sometimes wonder, does Russia realize herself what goals she wants to meet?


That's quite a long discussion mon ami, n'est ce pas? (c) Hercule Poirot.

 

[Mirc]

I am happy to amuse you. However, if you state that Marx is nowhere near the Soviet ideology, maybe you are in the wrong field of study. I'd suggest to change your major.

Not at all. The Marxist texts were only a pretext for the Soviet Union. Care to compare the market system?? Nothing like the Soviet one. Care to compare the Human Rights section? Nothing like the Soviet conception. That's what I mean. A pretext to justify propaganda. I can make very clear comparisons between Marx and Soviet system (though I'm afraid this would be off-topic).

 

[Pokurcz]

"I sometimes wonder, does Russia realize herself what goals she wants to meet?"

Well, the supreme leader is a former KGB member, in essence a military man, apparently he can only speak the language of brute force and power.

Some American comedian once said something like: 'How can you put the words "military" and "intelligence" in the same sentence?'

Forgot to comment on this part:
"Althrough I admit the Russian military forces are, softly speaking, unnecessary brutal in Chechnya, (and commit some atrocities) they are fighting for the right cause. Seriously, do you want another Islamic extremist state in the world? Or do you really think that Independent Chechnya will be a good, liberal, soft country?"

The chance of Chechnya becoming a "Islamic extremist state" is rather small, or at least it used to be very small. The Checnyans suffered first one war and then a second for years, and have shown themselves very restrained until the point when they realized that nobody was interested in their plight anymore and that they had lost the PR war.
So finally they tried what many separatists have used before, terror, and suddenly they where on the world map again!

But the restrained way that they have gone about doing their acts and their restraint from doing them at all in my opinion totally clears them from the "Islamic extremist" label, that is Russian state propaganda and official position.

Because of the broad definition of what a terrorist is today, this keeps the USA and others out of Putin's face.

So the Cechnyans have unfortunately played in to Putin's hands, but at least people haven't forgotten about them.

Mirc

I vote new topic! It would be ever so interesting!

 

[warpus]

Not at all. The Marxist texts were only a pretext for the Soviet Union. Care to compare the market system?? Nothing like the Soviet one. Care to compare the Human Rights section? Nothing like the Soviet conception. That's what I mean. A pretext to justify propaganda. I can make very clear comparisons between Marx and Soviet system (though I'm afraid this would be off-topic).

This sounds interesting. Care to start a new thread?

 

[Che Guava]

Let's please do that! Can we add in the Chinese/maoist interpretation of marxism as well?

 

[colontos]

Marx has nothing to do with the Soviet regime, go ahead and post.

Will do so in a new thread if opened.

 

[Lone Wolf]

But the restrained way that they have gone about doing their acts and their restraint from doing them at all

I do not see any restrain. Do the words Nord-Ost and Beslan ring a bell? There are many terrorist act done by the separatists.

Really, I wonder where you noticed that restrain.

 

[Pokurcz]

"A fourth version stated by Duma member and weapons and explosives expert Yuri Savelyev claims that the exchange of gunfire did not begin with explosions within the school building but by two grenades fired by the Russian forces into the building, and that the home-made explosive devices installed by the rebels did not explode at all.[22] Savelyev, a dissenting Torshin commission member, claims these explosions killed many of the hostages and dozens more died in the resulting fire.[23] Yuri Ivanov, another parliamentary investigator, further contended that the grenades were fired on the direct orders of President Putin"

This was the version that was stated as the most plausible in Swedish media.

"It was at this point that unknown persons, possibly members of the Russian special forces, fired Shmel RPO flamethrowers at the school's roof (a total of nine empty disposable tubes were later found on the rooftops of the nearby apartment blocks), setting parts of the school ablaze. A chaotic battle broke out as the special forces sought to enter the school and cover the escape of the hostages after task force members blew further holes in walls to allow hostages to escape. The offensive included special forces, the Russian army, Interior Ministry troops, armed helicopters, at least one tank (two T-72s and one T-80 from Russia's 58th Army but under FSB tactical command), and several BTR armoured personnel carriers."

Damn lucky the Russian army didn't just nuke the place!
Got the quotes from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

The restraint I noticed, as previously mentioned, in that it took several years from the beginning of the Chechnyan wars before the Chechnyan started using terrorist tactics.

 

[Lone Wolf]

The funny thing is that Andrey Saveliev himself is quite a nationalist! Everything is uncertain in the snow-covered plains of Russia...

 

[Pokurcz]

Yes in deed, that's why it is so difficult to develop any trust for Russia.

 

[REDY]

The Ukrainian had difficulties to discern between the two evils as well, but in the end chose the Slavic side because they where Slavs.

Well UPA was fighting with Soviets againist Germans when Germans were stronger and when Soviets started winning they became Nazist allies againist communists. Their utopian goal was fully independant Ukraine, without influence of Soviet or German side. However they were killing Poles and jews and it made from them similiar evil as Soviets or Germans.