We NEED better citadels/forts in BE

[El Caballerion]

How aggravating were citadels/forts in CIV? They seemed very gimmicky simply because the AI never knew how to deal with them. Even when the AI managed to destroy the unit stationed in the citadel, they wouldn't destroy it and continued to take damage for so many turns.

If we have citadels/forts in BE, they need to serve a better purpose. What suggestions do you have?

 

[AriochIV]

Unless they can teach the AI how to use forts, I don't see any reason for them to even be in the game.

 

[Lord Thanos]

Well, if its truly a spiritual successor to SMAC, I would expect to see some Sensor Arrays. And if the native lifeform is as insane as SMAC, citadels and forts will go a long way, and be a lot more useful then they were in civ5.

 

[GeoModder]

Well, if its truly a spiritual successor to SMAC, I would expect to see some Sensor Arrays. And if the native lifeform is as insane as SMAC, citadels and forts will go a long way, and be a lot more useful then they were in civ5.

Sensors in SMAC(X) were predominantly used to see one tile further out and spot hidden native life in fungus squares. AFAIK only one of the 'biomes' in Civ:BE will have fungus. Further more, it seems the orbital layer will be the place to put satellites sensors in to spot things.

 

[Makavcio]

Forts/citadel/whatnot is something I really lack in civ5. AI had learned to raze them some time ago but it's still unable to use them in any efficient manner.

We know that civ:be will have outposts and I could really imagine a lot of possible similar structures that could work as small strongholds, temporary outposts, "sensor arrays" or just territory markers that would extend player's claim on a piece of land. "I have my research station here so either go away or try your luck with that Conchita Wurst-styled marines of yours!".

Could be neat.

 

[Migoooy]

I like sensors from SMAC and think that they would be an idea for BE but citadels I'm not sure maybe something like bunkers? That provide a terrain bonus but other than that no.

 

[s0nny80y]

One word: canals.

Forts ought to form canals like in Civ 4.

 

[Barbarian King]

AI had learned to raze them some time ago but it's still unable to use them in any efficient manner.

While the AI doesn't seem to use them well defensively, I have seen the AI occasionally use forts well offensively, so hopefully it wouldn't be too much more work to flesh out the AI on this front. I do agree with AriochIV above that if they can't get the AI to use citadels well, they should just leave them out.

One word: canals.

Forts ought to form canals like in Civ 4.

This would be nice as well. There is already a mod that does this for Civ5, so surely the BE team could include such a feature if it fit with their design philosophy.

 

[Rakshasa72]

I'd rather Great Admirals would make canals in Civ5. At least they would have some use then.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Since they're supposedly independently examining every feature to see if it makes sense, I wonder if forts even make sense. Sure, I like the strategy of having it, but I can't think of the last game they were satisfactory. Maybe, now that we're in a future setting, it's worth asking if they make sense.

 

[beetle]

I like sensors from SMAC and think that they would be an idea for BE but citadels I'm not sure maybe something like bunkers? That provide a terrain bonus but other than that no.

I guess maybe it has to do with having fewer cities, so I usually build a few forts most of my Civ V games, but I hardly ever built bunkers in SMAC. I agree that bunkers fit the milieu well, and I am also not sure about citadels. They feel a little too much like magic in V. They are so essential to fun warmongering though...

 

[reddishrecue]

What if you get a fortress that increases its defense with a garrisoned unit or something. ..?

 

[mabalogna]

Citadels should enforce zone of control when a unit is fortified inside and double all movement points required in adjacent hex's for anyone attempting to pass through - whoever controls the Citadel ignores the negative effects.

 

[AriochIV]

AI limitations aside, forts don't work very well in the 1UPT system, because you'd have to build a whole line of them to be effective, and it's very rare that the need or opportunity for this arises. What would be much better would be a wall system. The walls could be built on the border between hexes (similar to rivers) and allow a defensive structure that stretches across multiple hexes but doesn't interfere with normal development of those hexes. This would allow wonders like the Great Wall to have an actual function on the map, instead of a magical benefit.

The drawbacks would be that the defensive bonuses of the wall would have to apply to both sides of the wall (which is realistic), and that you'd have to specify which hex face to build the wall on (rather than just being able to hit a single button).

 

[Callonia]

Forts will definitely be in after all they've been around for long time in one form or other. Currently today what we have as a fort is basically an military base.

Which is why I can't just see them going away at all.

And plus if the bugs is predominately melee, then forts usefulness will only increase. Their walls make it even harder for bugs to reach out and impale our soldiers with their tentacles, claws, etc. Where the soldiers would've been dead long time ago if there was no wall in the way.

 

[sendos]

I reckon they should add various upgrade paths for forts or each affinity offers different kinds of forts, but they also shouldn't be ridiculously tough like the citadel. For example:

- Purity fort: 50% defence against natives. 75% defence against non-native units.
- Supremacy fort: damages enemy units by 25HP per turn if they're 1 tile adjacent to the fort. 50% defence against non-native units. 25% defence against natives.
- Harmony fort: Fort contains attack pheromones of sorts. Enemies adjacent to fort lure natives to help defend your fort. Units garrisoned in fort are not less likely to be attacked by natives. 100% defence against natives. 50% defence against non-native units.

 

[Louis XXIV]

AI limitations aside, forts don't work very well in the 1UPT system, because you'd have to build a whole line of them to be effective, and it's very rare that the need or opportunity for this arises.

Actually, I found them slightly better in 1upt unless you have a true chokepoint (in which case, stacks are better because you can stack inside the fort). At least with 1upt, it's easier to create bottlenecks once you factor in zone of control.* However, the lack of ability to stack is the biggest flaw. At a minimum, they should have health like a city. That would actually make them true defensive structures.

* Although, in reality, I think zone of control is the biggest factor for whether forts are good or not. Forts were fine in Civ2. I use Citadels in Civ5, although not forts, and the ZoC does an effective job of clogging up even a wide open area. Without ZoC, I found it easy to just walk around the fort with your entire army and it becomes a non-factor.

 

[AriochIV]

The problem is that forts prevent development in those tiles, so you can't afford to build a lot of them prophylactically. You have to have an enemy that's got a much bigger-and-or-better army than yours, you have to know he's going to attack you so that you have time to construct this chain of forts (which takes quite a while), and you have to be willing to give up the extra production in those tiles. That's an alignment of planets that doesn't happen very often. For me it's happened maybe 4 or 5 times in over 1700 hours of play.

 

[Jman5]

The problem with forts (not citadels), is that they take so long to build that by the time they come online, the battle has moved on either behind or in front of the fort. Furthermore, if you're wasting all this time building forts with your workers, you're not doing important things like economic improvements.

One way I would love to see this change is to alter the way we do forts. Instead of building this static bunker, your engineer/worker can quickly deploy added defenses to the tile he is on. Maybe a 10% decrease in damage received while fortified.

The key here is that the defensive bonuses would be temporary. They would last only as long as the engineer is there maintaining the defenses.

 

[Cyon]

Maybe a borehole could double as a bunker. Our maybe the terraform robots (what are the called?) could choose a militaristic perk letting them quickly make trenches and bunkers (instead of an other powerful economic bonus)

Or maybe Terra forming in it self is enough, have a weakly defended field - dig a canal around it and add some forests to conceal you tropes.