WH Fantasy Mod Preview
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embryodead
Caliph
No because normally it doesn't happen. You must haven been playing with old PTW version. 1.27F (the proper one) doesn't allow non-era techs to be traded, that was actually the reason to include Black Library in the game. Time to update.
or something like that? and also.. i find it quite irritating when you can trade maps and communications in the first half of the game. it is after all an medieval world they are living in. thats it.
but as i said, your mod is great! its the only one i`ve been playing.
Well, this also means you didn't update this time to latest version of WH-Mod
In 1.02 patch, inspired by C3C, I moved map trading to Navigation. I left comm. trading at diplomacy though I want to move it farther in 2.0 version when I make a new tech tree. Oh, and the lastest and the last patch for PTW - 1.03 is available at WH thread (the one my sig).In C3C you have the return of civ2 philosophy, so to speak, it gives a free tech. Have you thought about fitting this into the tree somewhere? I think it should be a non-essential tech that gives it, maybe Religion?
I also think it would be nice with more government types, now that you can use flavors to make them hate each other. I think that a govt with trade bonus would be nice. As it is now you never change government, making the religious civs not as good as they could be.
I also think it would be nice with more government types, now that you can use flavors to make them hate each other. I think that a govt with trade bonus would be nice. As it is now you never change government, making the religious civs not as good as they could be.
embryodead
Caliph
When you get C3C (if you haven't already 
), take a look at the Napoleonic conquest. There France have the flavor "Revolutionary Republic", and most other countries have "Monarchy" as flavors. This is to make them hate each other. I don't know if you can get it to work precisely as you want it, but it should help you some, at least. You can give different relations between each flavor, like Revolutionary Republic likes Monarchy 25%, or something like that (I haven't looked at this for a while, and I didn't really bother to understand everything when I did ). If you can't make many governments maybe you can at least make everyone start in some crappy despotism (not the one your "slightly bad guys" have) and then let then research one govt each (per group, that is)? Then you have at least one revolution.
), take a look at the Napoleonic conquest. There France have the flavor "Revolutionary Republic", and most other countries have "Monarchy" as flavors. This is to make them hate each other. I don't know if you can get it to work precisely as you want it, but it should help you some, at least. You can give different relations between each flavor, like Revolutionary Republic likes Monarchy 25%, or something like that (I haven't looked at this for a while, and I didn't really bother to understand everything when I did ). If you can't make many governments maybe you can at least make everyone start in some crappy despotism (not the one your "slightly bad guys" have) and then let then research one govt each (per group, that is)? Then you have at least one revolution.
embryodead
Caliph
Got C3C and started testing. Unfortunately, flavors do not affect relations at all.
In Napoleonic France, everyone's fav. government is Monarchy, and most hated is Republic, while France is a Republic and hates Monarchy. That's exactly enough to make the starting "annoyed" relation, same as in WH-Mod.
So I went further and in WH-Mod added 3 flavors: Good, Neutral and Evil, no % relationships (or 30% later, no difference). Then I made Reikland good and Bretonnia - evil. Normally they are polite towards each other since they have the same fav govt. No change. More similiar tests only supported this.
I as far as I got it, when one flavor has % relationship with another, it doesn't relate to faction's relationship. The percentage is a chance (likeliness) that a faction with one flavor with follow a path of another flavor. Example: There is Evil flavor that has 30% relationship with Neutrals and 0% with Goods. Then, if there is an Evil building, it will be always built by Evils, sometimes (30%) by Neutrals and never by Goods. I'm trying to find use for it, but the problem is that it affects only AI, so the player can be sort of anything he likes
Maybe, for example, make Slave Markets available for anyone, but steer the AI with flavors so that good factions never built it, while neutrals and evils have a chance. A human player can make a choice to allow slavery in... Bretonnia. after all it's "alternative reality" game, in which you can build Pyramids in New York. Not sure
In Napoleonic France, everyone's fav. government is Monarchy, and most hated is Republic, while France is a Republic and hates Monarchy. That's exactly enough to make the starting "annoyed" relation, same as in WH-Mod.
So I went further and in WH-Mod added 3 flavors: Good, Neutral and Evil, no % relationships (or 30% later, no difference). Then I made Reikland good and Bretonnia - evil. Normally they are polite towards each other since they have the same fav govt. No change. More similiar tests only supported this.
I as far as I got it, when one flavor has % relationship with another, it doesn't relate to faction's relationship. The percentage is a chance (likeliness) that a faction with one flavor with follow a path of another flavor. Example: There is Evil flavor that has 30% relationship with Neutrals and 0% with Goods. Then, if there is an Evil building, it will be always built by Evils, sometimes (30%) by Neutrals and never by Goods. I'm trying to find use for it, but the problem is that it affects only AI, so the player can be sort of anything he likes
Maybe, for example, make Slave Markets available for anyone, but steer the AI with flavors so that good factions never built it, while neutrals and evils have a chance. A human player can make a choice to allow slavery in... Bretonnia. after all it's "alternative reality" game, in which you can build Pyramids in New York. Not sure
embryodead
Caliph
Yo. These are the changes/additions made so far for fist C3C version. Now please comment This is for 1.x version, not the new mod that will have new tech tree, civs and stuff.
Also, please tell me if you think the terrain set should be changed... I loved the ultra-green one but recently it turned out that people not like that too much... it was even discontinued by Snoopy/TF. The latter is not a problem, since I made my own update, but if majority doesn't like the green or translucent oceans, I'll switch to another version.
Changes in 1.1
- Civ traits assigned from scratch (all factions have two traits now)
- City improvements' and wonders' characteristics re-assigned to fit new rules
- Fortress defense bonus changed from 100 to 50, because of the new Barricade improvement (comes with Engineering)
- Upgrade cost raised from 2x to 3x (as in C3C epic game)
- Both swamps and jungles appear in random maps now
- Landmark forest (alternative forest by Sn00py) and snow-covered hills are included
- Goose resource in swamps is replaced by Fruit in jungles
- Disease from swamps & jungles is cured by Medicine
- Updated civilopedia icons with the new ones
New features in 1.1
- Chaotic factions can perform sacrifices on captured workers; Shrine doubles the value of such sacrifices
- Enslavement ability given to: Chaos Cultist (creates new Chaos Cultist), Chaos Spawn (spawns new Chaos Spawn), Vampire Lord (creates new Vampire), Liche (creates Skeletal Minion), Vampire, Necromancer (both create Skeleton Warriors)
- Dark Elf Assasins and Nipponese Ninjas perform stealth attacks they can not attack kings, settlers, workers, war machines, spells etc.
- Greater Demons, Lesser Demons and Chaos Giant can cause Collateral Damage
- New unit: Scientific Leader (uses Ancient Leader animation)
- New unit for Karaz-Ankor: Dwarven Engineer (comes with Engineering; works at double rate)
- New unit for Naggaroth: Black Ark (C3C Carrack) - replaces Galleon/Frigate
- New unit for Reikland: Imperial Galleon (C3C SotL) - replaces Galleon
- New unit for Reikland: Reiksguard (C3C Swiss Mercenary) - replaces Pikeman
- New unit for everyone except elves: Fire Catapult, comes with Invention
- New animation for Trebuchet
- New animation for Longship
- New specialist: Engineer (comes with Engineering; grants 2 shields)
- First faction to discover Astrology (cost raised to 12) is awarded free tech
- Plague is in effect
- The Moot produces a Halfling every 10 turns
- New Building: Windmill, +25% production, comes with Gearworks, costs 160 s.
- Sawmill now requires Timber in city radius; cost raised to 180 s.
This is for 1.x version, not the new mod that will have new tech tree, civs and stuff.Also, please tell me if you think the terrain set should be changed... I loved the ultra-green one but recently it turned out that people not like that too much... it was even discontinued by Snoopy/TF. The latter is not a problem, since I made my own update, but if majority doesn't like the green or translucent oceans, I'll switch to another version.
Changes in 1.1
- Civ traits assigned from scratch (all factions have two traits now)
- City improvements' and wonders' characteristics re-assigned to fit new rules
- Fortress defense bonus changed from 100 to 50, because of the new Barricade improvement (comes with Engineering)
- Upgrade cost raised from 2x to 3x (as in C3C epic game)
- Both swamps and jungles appear in random maps now
- Landmark forest (alternative forest by Sn00py) and snow-covered hills are included
- Goose resource in swamps is replaced by Fruit in jungles
- Disease from swamps & jungles is cured by Medicine
- Updated civilopedia icons with the new ones
New features in 1.1
- Chaotic factions can perform sacrifices on captured workers; Shrine doubles the value of such sacrifices
- Enslavement ability given to: Chaos Cultist (creates new Chaos Cultist), Chaos Spawn (spawns new Chaos Spawn), Vampire Lord (creates new Vampire), Liche (creates Skeletal Minion), Vampire, Necromancer (both create Skeleton Warriors)
- Dark Elf Assasins and Nipponese Ninjas perform stealth attacks they can not attack kings, settlers, workers, war machines, spells etc.
- Greater Demons, Lesser Demons and Chaos Giant can cause Collateral Damage
- New unit: Scientific Leader (uses Ancient Leader animation)
- New unit for Karaz-Ankor: Dwarven Engineer (comes with Engineering; works at double rate)
- New unit for Naggaroth: Black Ark (C3C Carrack) - replaces Galleon/Frigate
- New unit for Reikland: Imperial Galleon (C3C SotL) - replaces Galleon
- New unit for Reikland: Reiksguard (C3C Swiss Mercenary) - replaces Pikeman
- New unit for everyone except elves: Fire Catapult, comes with Invention
- New animation for Trebuchet
- New animation for Longship
- New specialist: Engineer (comes with Engineering; grants 2 shields)
- First faction to discover Astrology (cost raised to 12) is awarded free tech
- Plague is in effect
- The Moot produces a Halfling every 10 turns
- New Building: Windmill, +25% production, comes with Gearworks, costs 160 s.
- Sawmill now requires Timber in city radius; cost raised to 180 s.
tjedge1
Writer of writerly things
I like the terrain, but if the majority is against, then I can live with that.
You know what I think about the transparent oceans.
I can live with all the green, but I'd rather have something more subdued.
How about adding some dwarfs? A dwarven swordsman (renamed to something not including "man"
) for example.
Do you know that collateral damage equals defensive bombardment? (Well, it did during the beta at least, I don't think they changed that in the last stage.) You might want to take that into account, if you haven't already.
Maybe you could let the graphics for the scientific leader change with the eras? You could maybe use the Sumerian or Hittite king, for example.
Does the sawmill still only give 25% production boost? (I haven't played the mod since 1.02, this new game turned up ) If so you might want to change that to 50%, maybe.
Some other comments:
I found some diplomacy bugs, I might have reported one of them before, but I don't think so:
* The Orc called me PLAYER0
* "I, Archaon, am here to bring death to all being, Dogs of War.
But since that can take some time, let's make a deal first"
He wants to sell me Dogs of War here.
Did you think about having larger increments in the unit stats? The Wood elves have three units with attack 3, for example. And as the archers cost half as much as the others, you only build those anyway.
Keep up the good work.
I can live with all the green, but I'd rather have something more subdued.
How about adding some dwarfs? A dwarven swordsman (renamed to something not including "man"
) for example. Do you know that collateral damage equals defensive bombardment? (Well, it did during the beta at least, I don't think they changed that in the last stage.) You might want to take that into account, if you haven't already.
Maybe you could let the graphics for the scientific leader change with the eras? You could maybe use the Sumerian or Hittite king, for example.
Does the sawmill still only give 25% production boost? (I haven't played the mod since 1.02, this new game turned up
) If so you might want to change that to 50%, maybe.Some other comments:
I found some diplomacy bugs, I might have reported one of them before, but I don't think so:
* The Orc called me PLAYER0
* "I, Archaon, am here to bring death to all being, Dogs of War.
But since that can take some time, let's make a deal first"
He wants to sell me Dogs of War here.
Did you think about having larger increments in the unit stats? The Wood elves have three units with attack 3, for example. And as the archers cost half as much as the others, you only build those anyway.
Keep up the good work.
embryodead
Caliph
Swordsdwarf or Norseman - I have no place for them right now. This and other new units will go into 2.0 version, when I redesign tech tree completly (well I'm doing it right now) to fit all the new stuff in.
Collateral damage - didn't know that, have to test it then. Damn, it shouldn't work that way, after all rate of fire is set to 0.
I'm not sure about different animations for scientific leader, since they are the same for all races anyway... so why make a different leader with hittite king anim. when still he will be produced by all orcs, dwarves etc.?
Sawmill gives 25% bonus. You may think it's not much, but I prefer to split up "factory" into several cheaper buildings (like in DyP for example ). Windmill gives +25%, Sawmill +25%, Engineers' Guild +25%, Slave Market +25%... you can have 2 to 4 of them, depending on the situation, to get 50-100% production bonus.
Thanks for the diplomacy report. The first one was fixed in 1.03, though the second wasn't, doing it now. Funny, that in your example, the statement even makes some sense
Unit stats might change in 2.0 version. But it's still hard - if I make bigger differences you will build the best unit anyway...
Well, look at Civ3.. it's basically the same situation:
Medieval Infantry 4.2.1 -Iron
Knight 4.3.2 -Iron -Horses
Longbowman 4.1.1 -Def.Bomb.
I am thinking of raising the stats and then make some subtle differences, but "the best unit" syndrome is unavoidable.
Thanks for all comments
or Norseman - I have no place for them right now. This and other new units will go into 2.0 version, when I redesign tech tree completly (well I'm doing it right now) to fit all the new stuff in.Collateral damage - didn't know that, have to test it then. Damn, it shouldn't work that way, after all rate of fire is set to 0.
I'm not sure about different animations for scientific leader, since they are the same for all races anyway... so why make a different leader with hittite king anim. when still he will be produced by all orcs, dwarves etc.?
Sawmill gives 25% bonus. You may think it's not much, but I prefer to split up "factory" into several cheaper buildings (like in DyP for example
). Windmill gives +25%, Sawmill +25%, Engineers' Guild +25%, Slave Market +25%... you can have 2 to 4 of them, depending on the situation, to get 50-100% production bonus.Thanks for the diplomacy report. The first one was fixed in 1.03, though the second wasn't, doing it now. Funny, that in your example, the statement even makes some sense
Unit stats might change in 2.0 version. But it's still hard - if I make bigger differences you will build the best unit anyway...
Well, look at Civ3.. it's basically the same situation:
Medieval Infantry 4.2.1 -Iron
Knight 4.3.2 -Iron -Horses
Longbowman 4.1.1 -Def.Bomb.
I am thinking of raising the stats and then make some subtle differences, but "the best unit" syndrome is unavoidable.
Thanks for all comments
About the collateral damage, as I said, this was in the beta, I'm not sure how it is now.
The hittite king is just sexy.
Seriously though, the ancient leader looks very poor/uncivilized, you'd expect a high priest/magician/philosopher/whatever to have better looking clothes. He's probably supplied them by that young vibrant red haired queen.
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