WH Mini-Mods

[Psychic_Llamas]

Ok Ahriman i dont really mind if we use districts or the current buildings. i liek the current buildings a lot more than they were previously

 

[Ahriman]

i liek the current buildings a lot more than they were previously

The main balance problem with the buildings is the free specialists from tanner and hunting lodge - particularly on scenario maps like the Warhammer world. On many such maps you can easily get 3-4 free specialists in a single city the very early game.

Which reminds me, as a long-term goal... it would be really great if we could do something with Great clerics - since shrines are building, great clerics are basically useless.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i agree on the great cleric front

 

[deadliver]

Atomic gamer link doesn't work, do you have this mini-mod anywhere else?

 

[Masada]

The current buildings are horrible, but it isn't solely there fault and the tech tree is still designed for the old buildings. There are lots of problems to work on, and I personally think we should be targeting the utterly faulty parts first. I'm not a 100% sure which is the most faulty part to target... the tech tree is under fire atm from what I gather.

 

[deadliver]

How about if the Great Clerics were spawned as a cool arcane or divine unit?

 

[Ahriman]

The current buildings are horrible, but it isn't solely there fault and the tech tree is still designed for the old buildings. There are lots of problems to work on, and I personally think we should be targeting the utterly faulty parts first. I'm not a 100% sure which is the most faulty part to target... the tech tree is under fire atm from what I gather.

The buildings really aren't that bad.... with a couple of exceptions from the free specialists. There have been changes to the buildings, going back to % multipliers and removing many of the +gold bonuses.
The main issues are the tech tree:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=294254&page=11 Post 214
for the proposed new tree
and http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=293834&page=3 Post 58
for the details of where units fit in the tree (there are a couple of things not quite updated in this post - eg writing tech)

and the combat system:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301998

(links mostly in the private forum)

How about if the Great Clerics were spawned as a cool arcane or divine unit?

Well, thats the intention for Lustrians, for their great clerics to be powerful casters.
But that will be a special mechanic for them.

I wonder if we can create a Cathedral building that can be built by sacrificing a great cleric, in the same way that a great sage can construct an Academy.

 

[deadliver]

you guys have already said your going to include religious UUs unique to a particular civ, how about if these great cathedrals allowed you to build a religious UU unique to that religion?

Taking a lawful human religion for example there are Knights of the White Wolf everywhere but IIRC their holiest of holy temples is based in Middenheim, where they are trained. The Sisters of Shallya's HQ is based in Bretonnia, I think Myrmidia is based in Estalian and so on.

I see you guys have temples to several deities, what I propose is that you take Ahriman's Great Cathedral idea and add the ability to build a UU in that city only.

How do you think this would work with the other religions in the game?

edit: come to think of it, maybe you could treat those Cathedral buildings as Guild/Corporate HQs and allow people to spread chapter houses throughout their territory (and i guess their allies if they are feeling nice).

 

[Ahriman]

you guys have already said your going to include religious UUs unique to a particular civ, how about if these great cathedrals allowed you to build a religious UU unique to that religion?

Its an interesting idea, but generally we're trying to remove most of the building requirements. The AI in particular would have difficult building a unit that required a building that could only be created by a particular great person type. And if we made the cathedral buildable with hammers, that would reduce again the value of the great cleric.

But a Cathedral that was say +2 influence, +15% hammers, +35% gold, would still be worth using a great cleric for.

The Guild/corporation idea is also interesting, but in some sense that what the existing religion mechanic does; you build the shrine to a religion, and spread it round through your territory and those of your allies to give a bonus to the shrine and a bonus to each city the religion is present in.

 

[deadliver]

I suppose throwing culture, hammers and gold at the problem works. Does the AI know it can use GP to build like this? If not or not very well then there is no point in getting complicated.

Otherwise, to make things interesting, I would allow only a limited number of Great Cathedrals per religion (of course you'd have to have a religion to build these right?) say 8 or so and let the different religious brethren figure it out.

The Guild concept had to do with, using the Humans as an example, spreading the ability to build Knightly religious orders but you are right, the presence of the religion in the city would be enough and who knows whether the AI would pick up on it anyhow. I strongly recommend if you have not already to consider Knightly Orders for some of the religious based UUs, at least for the salvation based ones.

Chaos Knights are the penultimate fighters in their faction but their religious units are weird...for example Minotaurs guard many of the smaller chaos shrines.

 

[Ahriman]

Does the AI know it can use GP to build like this? If not or not very well then there is no point in getting complicated.

I think so - I think it can build Academies with great sages?
I agree that if it doesn't we shouldn't have a feature like this.

I strongly recommend if you have not already to consider Knightly Orders for some of the religious based UUs

We're definitely doing this, for Bretonnia (grail knights and such) and maybe Estalia. Chaos knighst are just the knight unit for chaos factions.
Current religious UU designs are here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=290986&page=3

 

[deadliver]

I think so - I think it can build Academies with great sages?

Yeah see, I have no idea about that. If it could that would make it worthwhile to even consider being able to found multiple shrines with GPs with a set limit for each religion. Make those first few Great Clerics real valuable.

 

[Ahriman]

found multiple shrines with GPs

Well, shrines are so massively powerful (particularly on a large map, where you can be getting +30 gold or more from a large religion) that multiple shrines are likely to be imba. But less powerful cathedral buildings would be ok.

I know in one of the big civ mods (Rise of Mankind I think?) that great people can be used to insta-build partiucular buildings or wonders.
And certainly the AI uses great engineers to build wonders.

 

[deadliver]

Well, shrines are so massively powerful (particularly on a large map, where you can be getting +30 gold or more from a large religion) that multiple shrines are likely to be imba. But less powerful cathedral buildings would be ok.

I know in one of the big civ mods (Rise of Mankind I think?) that great people can be used to insta-build partiucular buildings or wonders.
And certainly the AI uses great engineers to build wonders.

sorry, every previous post I had used cathedral, that is what I meant this time.