What “killer feature” do you want to see in Civ 4? (Read, then pick up to 4 options)

[socralynnek]

Ressources: I want to have stacked ressources
Economics: alittle more complex, please
Provinces: just love it
Civics: sounds good (although I still doN't know what they really have in mind)

*AI !!!

 

[dh_epic]

You know, I'm not enticed by Civics. But there has been a discussion about it, and some of the ideas are kind of neat.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=91140

I, too, think the civ specific art could be a great thing. I'm just really into the idea of rewriting history to the core. If the Japanese conceived of the pyramids, they'd look totally different. If the Zulu survived long enough, what would their musketmen look like?

 

[Gelion]

Can we have unit design like in AC?

 

[Dr. Broom]

Science, Domestic affairs, Civics and something else plus all the free ones.

My something else is an end to reliance on terrain for a rich and productive city. Forget using terrain to produce shields and trade, at least to an extent. Trade shouldn't be something terrain produces it should occur when cities and nations actually trade with one another much like in civ2 only without the caravans (too much micromanagement). Maybe a system of employed and unemployed could be worked in too so the more employed citizens a city has the more trade you get. Shields should also be made another way too, sure hills, mountains and bonus grassland are all good for shields but you really shouldn't have to rely on them. As an example we can use the city of London in the real world, it has a lot of production but does it get all of it from people mining in nearby hills? Absolutely not. We need better systems for Commerce and Shield production.

 

[dh_epic]

Gelion -- the unit workshop was something that came up in a bunch of threads but was considered a huge undertaking, like a future age, or settling without settlers. Definitely appreciate the thought and support for the idea, although I think a bunch of people have spoke out against the unit workshop (because the AI sucks at using it, and because it takes up a lot of time, I think).

Hey Dr. Broom, sounds like you should have picked "Economics" instead of something else, as I think that's very much related to your concerns. But hey, the idea got across. I'm gonna try to consolidate all this and break down the results, and look at it from a bunch of different ways a little later. Maybe once we hit 100 votes, or after it plateaus for a while. When I do that, I'll factor out stuff like misvotes or the details within the messages.

 

[sir_schwick]

Science +++ - Really needs to eliminate planned history. Blind Reserach baby! Fluid tech tree would be nice too.
Negotiations +++ - Whatever happened to multi-lateralism? I have a coaltion of the willing. Forty-two nations ready to roll son! I was playing SMAC last night and was the most powerful faction. I managed to get another faction warring against my best trade partner to quit, just by asking. There is no option for third-party interferance in Civ 3.
Intelligence +++ - Wow, I spent 5000 gold on propaganda for what?! WE cannot forget all those tyrants the US put in power over the past forty years. Puppet govs all the way!
Governments +++ - This is eurocentrism out the ass. Socialist politics do not disagree with capitalist economics people. Bring back the 'free market' 'police states'.

Improved AI - Come on Firaxis. This should not be that hard, Creative Assembly could do it.
More Civ Specific Art - Buildings in Memphis and Nashville do not look alike, much less buildings in Memphis, Tennessee and Memphis, Egypt.

Workers - You are the weakest link, goodbye.

 

[Elgalad]

This is covered under the extras, but I would very very much like to see more civ specific art for not only buildings and units, but possibly user interface as well. Music would also help. Understanding that adding extra sound and graphics files will inevitably inflate the size of the game assets, I still think that these would be wonderful tools to 'immerse' a player into their role as the guiding force behind a civilization. Some examples here.. Most European civilizations used stone to build their middle ages castles and fortifications, but the various cultures had remarkable diversity. I have never been to Europe, but have seen pictures of German castles in the Alps with towering spires, English castles built more for security than style with solid bulwarks, French and Roman manors, etc. Linking building art to a 'cultural' group doesn't feel right. Playing America can be somewhat unsettling when one builds their 'white house' from a pyramidal blueprint!

Regarding the sounds I remember some of the older games, possibly civ 1 even, that had several different midi music scores that you could select to play in a shuffle rotation or just the same one in a loop. I think Colonization was like that too? I do like the way the music changes through the ages, but hearing the same music over and over (within an age) can get old. Sure would like more variety and again, civ specific.

Last thing... Bring back wonder movies!!!! I'll probably get flamed, but I really miss them Art assets might just be frosting on the cake, but that frosting can leave a very sweet taste in your mouth when you're done.

-Elgalad

 

[I-Kaiser]

My picks: Intel, war, province, diasaster, and all the free ones.

Intel: More Spy options, more diplomatic options, make spies available EARLY, not Industrial age (heck, Sun Tzu was talking about them).

War: Pretty much the more the merrier More Units, more unit varieties, etc. etc. Plus I want GOOD NAVAL COMBAT! How about a ship dedicated to attack before the mid industrial age?

Province: Alright, here's my idea (sorry if someone else stated something similar): You can create a province once you have twelve cities+ and you have Republic. Provinces can have up to six cities, eight once you discover democracy. A province is created by choosing a city to be the capital of the province, then choosing five/seven other cities. You can add and remove cities into your province at any time. Once you choose your capital, you have to build "provincial capital". The provinces don't necessarilly need to be filled, either.

ALL Cities in a province get 25% reduced corruption, plus benefits from palaces (forbidden/reg). Area around the province also get a reduction in corruption, though it is not as good as if they were actually in the province (like 10%ish). The city with the PC doesn't have a bonus corruption fighting power, so that players won't be encouraged to build PC's in all there cities.

If an enemy civ captures a provincial capital, the province gets dissolved. This would make PCs a very desirable strategic target, as it would cripple an entire area.

Provinces also facillitate the much beloved CIVIL WAR!!!111! If 2/3 of the province's cities are in disorder for longer than y turns, there is a x% chance the province will go into civil war, based on proximity to Palace or FP. A province that revolted would get the following benefits: All cities draft two reg defenders that are as modern as possible (if the province can build pikes, then they will draft two pikes). All units produced from the province in the province itself will turn into enemy units, while all the units produced outside the province that are in it will be moved outside the province. Finally, a province going into open revolt causes rampant unhappiness, getting more severe based on proximity to the province in revolt. This will cause a domino effect on provinces going into revolt. This domino effect is reduced with Nationalism/equivalent advance. Granted, it needs some fine tuning, but I like that idea.

What do you think about that? or :thumbdown:?

Disaster: What can I say, I like it when my enemies get crippled
Seriously though, I like the idea of tornadoes and hurricanes, as put forth by... someone in another thread. But the basic idea was treat Hurricanes as a unit that moves around, with bombard and attack, etc.

And all the free ones because more is better.

 

[dh_epic]

Thanks for keeping the interest level high, guys! At 93 voters as I read this, the lead is negotiations (which surprises me, but doesn't disappoint me). 50 voters, which is more than half of people, think Civ needs to overhaul its diplomacy, trade, alliances, threats, and promises. There's your coalition of the willing!

(Like who?)

Who the **** said that?

I-Kaiser, I like your thoughts on provinces. I do recommend taking the discussion to one of the many province threads though, as I want to avoid cluttering up this thread with any detailed discussions (for now). You only have to look as far as any thread with the word "provinces" in it, or "civil war" for that matter.

And I like the idea of Civ-specific Interface Art too, Elgalad. Consider that grouped in with the rest of the art. Like I said, there will be a time to get feedback on detailed ideas, just not now.

 

[Jake5555555]

For me the most important thing is to have many ways for whole new rival civilizations to appear. I don't care if this is done with provinces, barbarians, rebellion, or civil war, I just want a growing number of civs in the game.

 

[Stid]

r poo i only picked one i really should hav read the threat i think.anyway negotiations was the one i picked as i believe civs dont rely on allies as much as they need to in real life for instance supplying oil or weapons or food or more complexed protection/war pacts.it would make the game cool

 

[dh_epic]

Jake5555555, I definitely like the idea of civs entering and leaving the game -- even just as generic AI "noncompetitive" civs. I think that ties into provinces, but also has something to do with domestic affairs -- civ splitting and such. A lot of threads on provinces, so it's no surprise that this pick is as popular as it's turned out to be.

Stid, it's okay that you only picked one, at least you didn't pick all of them. Negotiations looks like the smart pick, since a lot of people liked it. I agree that for a game that lets you live out history, the only interesting interaction that two civilizations can have is to go to war. Otherwise, you're in the default mode of "peaceful competition" if not "allied for war purposes only". There's way more to history than that, and I'm not saying that because I like realism but because I love strategy.

This poll is very interesting, indeed.

 

[Verowin]

I am not surprised negotiations is one of the top choices. It is a pain to scan through all your rivals to get the best deal possible.

A1 improvement is a given

 

[dh_epic]

Slow day at work I'm also an excel master in my offtime.

Just throwing this up here to stimulate discussion.

(see attached picture)

Discarded: Ballazic, Colonel, Cmonkey, Salomao (too many votes)
Accepted: Drakan, Vuzurok (5 votes, but discarded "other"/"more of same" votes)
Good Job: Everyone else

Vote Tally: 122 - 4 = 118

A quick question:

Should we migrate the post poll discussion to another thread? I'd like to focus the discussion on what people think about the most popular features, instead of talking about why we voted the way we did. Would that be easier in another thread?

 

[Chimp]

shoot, maybe I'm just not a warmonger but it seems like the stuff I want the most is near the bottem. Civics, govs, religion, economics, and domestic affairs are all way outvoted. I do like provinces though... As far as negotiations go I don't see how they could practically be improved. And what's to improve with war other than the stupid randomness? I guess I like civ for stuff other than the war. If you want a really war centered game play hearts of iron or any in that europa universals series.

 

[von Bismarck]

Provinces gotta be in it.. And you should be allowed to determine your provinces yourself.. Maybe you want to tax some conquered regions a lot more? ;-) Or you want your best buddy to govern some ov your provinces in order to have some more power himself to support you in times of trouble - or not??

Negotiations and the UN have to be expanded.. THe more realistic, the better.. I don't mind some complexity. But maybe you should allow to play without certrain things or have your advisor do the work for you.

 

[Captain]

I voted Provinces, Disasters, Terrain and Science Advances.
Provences are a great idea as well as new terrain and weather systems.

I have a fantastic vision here.

Ok. We all know how the mini-map in the corner of the screen shows us both the territory of countries and the geography of the world? Well what about a setting where you can see the atmospheric/meteorological conditions of the entire planet say after the invention of satellites?

~or...

There could be two layers of the playing map itself wherein you can see the world's geography as you can in CivIII, as well as being able to 'zoom out' or pull back to see the worlds atmospheric weather patterns from a space orbit perspective after gaining an appropriate advance such as satellites or space flight.

These ideas would be incorporated into the natural disasters concept with weather/climates and seasons.

In regards to civilizations 'leaving' the game, how about some of them simply turning into their modern counterparts?

 

[h4ppy]

I voted Provinces, Disasters, Terrain and Science Advances.
Provences are a great idea as well as new terrain and weather systems.

I have a fantastic vision here.

Ok. We all know how the mini-map in the corner of the screen shows us both the territory of countries and the geography of the world? Well what about a setting where you can see the atmospheric/meteorological conditions of the entire planet say after the invention of satellites?

~or...

There could be two layers of the playing map itself wherein you can see the world's geography as you can in CivIII, as well as being able to 'zoom out' or pull back to see the worlds atmospheric weather patterns from a space orbit perspective after gaining an appropriate advance such as satellites or space flight.

These ideas would be incorporated into the natural disasters concept with weather/climates and seasons.

In regards to civilizations 'leaving' the game, how about some of them simply turning into their modern counterparts?

Incorporating the weather could also affect fighting. (storms and blizzards are bad for attacking)

 

[dh_epic]

I'd like to focus the discussion on one topic at a time. The first topic, also the most popular topic, is war. It beat out almost every "free" improvement except AI. In other words, it's popular enough that even if it made the game more complex and closed off complexities in other parts of the game, people would be happy. They'd be willing to sacrifice other complexities to make war more compelling.

Here are some of the advertisements I made for War.

WAR++
W01. More unique units
W02. unit types with bonuses against other unit types
W03. terrain penalties and bonuses for unit types
W04. new special abilities and tactics
W05. social engineering during wartime
W06. occupation
W07. military aid
W08. liberate allies
W09. rewards for liberating allies
W10. take prisoners
W11. take no prisoners
W12. hostile territory
W13. cut supply lines
W14. traps
W15. troop stacks
W16. (anything not mentioned above)

Here's all the people who voted for war:
-0blivion-, America444, Arathorn, ArbitraryGuy, Ballazic, Bangorash, baseballfan45, batteryacid, biggamer132, BlueNine, Boleslav, CIVPhilzilla, Colonel, Coorae, Dauntless, denyd, deo, disturbed bacon, Drakan, echinococcus, eg577, Elgalad, GVBN, gwd20055, Haradrim, Ian Beale, ieatfish, juballs2001, Khift, Lennon, luckykitkat, Lumbergh, MaXXXXXuM, Me-262, Mewtarthio, Midnight Piper, Rammr, RedAlert, RedFusion, redhulkz, Salomao, searcheagle, SemperFi2382, shawne3386, slyj, sspanzer, Strider, superskankster, SwitchbladeNGC, Synthshadow, T-Money, Thangorodrim, The Great Apple, toh6wy, Verowin, Vizurok, ybbor, Yom, yujit, Zeekater

To the war mongers (voters): My question to you guys is what enticed you to vote for enhanced war? What are your favorite few picks?

To everyone else (who voted for something else): Did you just want more complexity elsewhere, or do you genuinely hate some of the ideas for war? If you really do hate war, then what features make you especially afraid of changing the war system?

 

[dh_epic]

I'll start.

I didn't vote for war.
I guess I'm not really against any of the ideas, but I'd just sooner like to see some of the non-war aspects of the game enhanced. The game is already too war heavy. Only after some of the other strategies are enhanced (diplomatic, economic, intelligence, domestic) would I care enough to see war enhanced -- if there's still "room".

Again, this is based on the word from the designers: the game can't get any more complex than Civ 3. They'd have to simplify something in Civ 3, and add a new complicated concept -- and keep the overall complexity equal.