What after the New Frontier Pass - the end or more

[Zegangani]

I do think controlling most of the world's resources is a good start. But there probably has to be more that can't necessarily work with the Monopolies Corporations mode in it's current state to be able to achieve an Economic Victory.
l can see it an Economic Victory with fleshed out monopolies and corporations being added for Civ 7 along with Barbarian Clans in the base game.

That's correct. And that's why I said "one good condition", because there are usually up to 4 conditions for a Victory.
I was hoping for an Economic Victory with C&M but there wasn't a high chance that we will get one, as it would require a lot of work that deserves an Expansion for itself. But I really hope that we will get one in Civ 7. I'm just not found of the Idea that a Culture Victory can also be seen as an Economic Victory.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

What would you propose as the win conditions for an Economic Victory?

It can be archived in various ways. Let's take this scratch as an example.
Aim: to dominate markets.
1. The value of the market is a sum of gold income generated by all Civilizations throughout the game, so it will increase turn by turn. So we have a bunny to chase now.
2. How we can chase that bunny and what will be our offensive currency. Let's use the Corporations mode idea of products. Each product manufactured by your Civilization will have a gold value.
3. To dominate the world market and claim economic victory you must earn the sum of the gold value of all your products earned throughout the game larger than 50% of the current value of the World Market.
So now we have basics with a good story. Domination of world markets It means you must produce over 50% of goods that the world is able to buy. in general monopolize the World Market. Sounds like a good reflection of the real-life economy in a game.

And now the twists and modifiers to spice up the game.
1. Defensive (producing more gold, increasing the value of the world market by policies, buildings, Wonders, trade routes, spies, World Congress resolutions, decreasing value of the Civ's products, etc.)
2. Offensive (produce more products, increasing the value of your products by policies, buildings, Wonders, trade routes, spies, World Congres resolutions, decreasing value of the World Market, etc.)

Additional features:
1. Unique Products for Civs.
2. World market - you can choose to either put a product in your Civilization's building (local market) and earn its benefits and buffs or put a product in a World Market to dominate the world market (Only sum of the value of products put ina global market would count for Economic Victory in this case) and win an Economic Victory. This way products will be usefull not only in economic game but also support different win conditions.

 

[Abaxial]

There is more to Economy than just Tourism (Culture). You (I'm speeking generally, and not to you Abaxial) can't submet an Economic Victory as part of Culture Victory. They're completely different things. The only things that they have in Common is the Tourism and "cultural" things that you can find in a Civ and not in the others, and you can't say that one's economy is one's culture, as we have enough evidence IRL to deny that as a fact.
Economy involves your Agriculture, Production, Trade...etc. Resource management in general. It was such a missed opportunity for an Economic Victory with the introduction of Industries&Monopolies, and especially because we have specialty Disticts in Civ VI. Specialization would have been the Key for Monopolies and hence an Economic Victory Type.

Yes, that's the way it should be, and that's the way that people here expected it to be, but it's not how the devs decided to do it, and Civ 6 is so abstracted, it's not totally out of place.

 

[PiR]

NFP is almost over, so any idea when we'll know if there is something after?
I'm afraid they won't do much maintenance if there is nothing more to sell.
That would set me back to a previous, more polished iteration of civ.

 

[Linklite]

NFP is almost over, so any idea when we'll know if there is something after?
I'm afraid they won't do much maintenance if there is nothing more to sell.
That would set me back to a previous, more polished iteration of civ.

Not really. Speculation time, though.

If they're going to release new content for Civ VI, it'll be soon. They'll be wanting to get Civ VII going soon, which will clash with Civ VI content. While there is scope for some parallel work, they usually have a down period for releases, I guess to really focus on the new iteration. I imagine that we'll here from them soon. The end of NFP is as good as any, since I think that they'd want to start releasing before year end.

If they don't say anything, that doesn't mean much though. They might want to gauge reaction, give us a breather, etc. Sorry for the yes but no response!

 

[The Civs 6]

I wonder if part of the strategy is to see how the Old World release goes. Not only will that be significant for market positioning, but also, they might be able to steal good features without having to do the R&D. Didn't Civ 6 already steal features from Endless Legends?

 

[ManoftheHour333]

With Portugal being the last civ, I think Civ VI's new-content-time is just about up. Now I'm sure we'll get balance updates and the game will be fun for many years to come, but I really don't see them (Or really want them) adding in new features. The zombie mode really dashed my hopes after 2 great game modes this year and shows some insight into how the devs are trying to pitch these expansions/passes.

What it boils down to is that less and less people will buy the expansions over time unless there is some seriously flashy content. I think the devs know that the game modes are not exuberantly flashy compared to say, adding in climate change (Which got them a lot of buzz even on the news) or loyalty mechanics. And obviously the other flashy tactic is through adding civs. But given where we're at with Portugal...I don't see new civs getting them that much praise. Like it or not, most people on reddit are still shouting for more european civs (Ireland, Romania, Austria, Italy) to be added...even over underrepresented regions like Oceania or western NA. And the devs are already getting flack for being too eurocentric so their in a pickle-add in new civs that less people "want" (Trying to be more overarching to all civ players and not just ourselves) and make less money, or cave to the pressure and get flack for lacking representation. The latter option might give the FXS more money, but I don't see it as enough to oil their development teams to make some great content.

Without this flashier content, there is less of an incentive to actually improve the game...cause where is the money coming from? The NFP did alright considering it was gamble to buy but considering it failed to balance and repair so many broken systems (That is partially created), I see that there is less and less of a chance for these issues to be addressed given that it would be "for the love of the game" and not really profitable.

IMO, I say that they should do their best to fix the systems in VI come April and then only patches thereafter. It would just take too many resources to fix everything/add new content when they're not going to be getting as high of an income in from sales anymore. But I'm all in favor of as much balancing/fixing as we can get!!

 

[PiR]

IMO, I say that they should do their best to fix the systems in VI come April and then only patches thereafter. It would just take too many resources to fix everything/add new content when they're not going to be getting as high of an income in from sales anymore. But I'm all in favor of as much balancing/fixing as we can get!!

Agree, but what would finance that support? cross-finger it happens

 

[Nerevatar]

I hope for more content if they stick with adding interesting layers to existing mechanics. And maybe give themselves some breathing room in their schedule so they can properly test, balance and polish it all. Oh and something something AI for new gameplay mechanics.

Will it happen? I think that depends entirely on if civ7 is around the corner, and how well the higher ups believe the next season will sell. I still give it an above 50% chance of happening.

 

[SnowKomodo]

I don't want more content and would rather wait for Civ 7. Having said that, Civ is the only video game franchise in which I buy every DLC, for better or worse, so if they released new content I would also purchase it

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

NFP is almost over, so any idea when we'll know if there is something after?
I'm afraid they won't do much maintenance if there is nothing more to sell.
That would set me back to a previous, more polished iteration of civ.

We have no bloody idea. So now comes the fun

 

[DWilson]

I just want more playable options. I want Hapshepsut, more US/Canada regional native civs, more other civs, and more leaders. If they offered other stuff (personas, game modes, scenarios, maps, etc.), I would probably buy in, but nothing would be as satisfying outside of killer, realish game systems (e.g. immigration, revolutions into new civs, health and disease with spread tied into contact and trade and gradual immunity).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

That's correct. And that's why I said "one good condition", because there are usually up to 4 conditions for a Victory.
I was hoping for an Economic Victory with C&M but there wasn't a high chance that we will get one, as it would require a lot of work that deserves an Expansion for itself. But I really hope that we will get one in Civ 7. I'm just not found of the Idea that a Culture Victory can also be seen as an Economic Victory.

Honestly I don't understand the desire for an economic victory, like at all. Its like a perfect example of "more for the sake of more." Economy is the means not the ends. I know people want it but I just don't see it, like I don't understand the point of exhuming concepts like ideologies that don't really fit in this game, just because they were. in a previous iteration. if anything vii could be pared down a bit from 6 (or at least cleaned up).

 

[Zegangani]

Honestly I don't understand the desire for an economic victory, like at all. Its like a perfect example of "more for the sake of more." Economy is the means not the ends. I know people want it but I just don't see it, like I don't understand the point of exhuming concepts like ideologies that don't really fit in this game, just because they were. in a previous iteration. if anything vii could be pared down a bit from 6 (or at least cleaned up).

Why I want an Economic Victory Type: Because I dislike Victories like Religion or Culture Victories. Religion isn't something that you can control and force People to accept, and a Culture Victory shouldn't even exist. A civ can't be culturally better than other Civs because it has more Tourists than others.
Science and Domination Victories are reasonable. A Civ CAN be better in Science than other Civs, or Dominate the landmasses.
The Diplomatic Victory is a good Victory Type, since it demands diplomatic skills and patience to please other Civs and keep Peace. It's just poorly Designed in Civ VI. Achieving a DiploV Points Threshold for a DiploVictory doesn't appeal to me.
The Score Victory is Ok. Could be expanded more, but it's ok.

I've enough of constantly choosing Science Victory, and I'm not the type of Player who enjoys conquering Cities. I'm more of a Builder who prefers to play longer Games (usually on Marathon or longer (Mods)) to have plenty of Time to micromanage my Empire. And what Victory Type suits this type of play better than an Economic one? It could be something else, I only want something realistic to be viewed as a Victory.

There could be also a Happiness/Friedom Victory. Where you have to have the Majority of your Cities' Citizens with ecstatic Happiness and Peace with all Civs in the Game (Government and Policies could be the main keys in ordder to reach this). Just an Idea.

Why I want some Mechanisms like Ideologies from previous iterations: I don't want one just for the sake of having it. I want an Ideology or Colonisation/Vassalization System because they would improve the Late-Game, which is the least interesting part of the Game. And even the C&M Mode that we've got couldn't change something about that. Those Mechanisms could bring fresh air to it, especially Ideolgies, which would immediately change a Civs behaviour, they would be like a new Civ Unique Ability that you get mid-game. A Health systeme would demand always your attention and your Colonies would help you pursue any Victory type you want. All of them would keep your attention during the Late-Game, and they also keep the replayability of the Game.

EDIT: I also want those new Mechanisms because I enjoy them way more than new Civs. I wouldn't mind if the Game has only 20 Civs to offer. I haven't even played with half of the Base Game+RnF Civs. Because their Playstyle is sure different than other Civs, but not that much to really make a difference IMHO. Mechanisms on the other hand, could change the playstyle of the same Civ, so you could end up playing with the same Civ over and over, but the gameplay and playstyle would be different each Time. THIS I call Game replayability. If only the Civs add replayability, then you will get bored as soon as you've played with all of them in the Game.

 

[Zaarin]

a Culture Victory shouldn't even exist. A civ can't be culturally better than other Civs because it has more Tourists than others.

In previous games, and implicitly if not effectively in Civ6 as well, what Culture Victory represents is one's culture becoming dominant over others, and this is certainly a thing that has happened many times in history. The Hellenistic Era is called that because Greek culture creeped into all the cultures surrounding the Mediterranean and even into Central and South Asia to some degree. Virtually all of the cultures surrounding Persia have been heavily influenced by Persian culture, and Persian culture in turn has been heavily influenced by Arab and Turkic cultures. Right now we can see literally the entire world being pummeled with American (or at least "Western") culture.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Honestly I don't understand the desire for an economic victory, like at all. Its like a perfect example of "more for the sake of more." Economy is the means not the ends. I know people want it but I just don't see it, like I don't understand the point of exhuming concepts like ideologies that don't really fit in this game, just because they were. in a previous iteration. if anything vii could be pared down a bit from 6 (or at least cleaned up).

Hmm I dont expect it in Civ VI, but in Civ VII I would like to see it instead of Diplomatic Victory and probably World Congress. Why? World Congress and Diplo win with poor AI is just dull. World Congress is just a irritaiting pop up with RNG AI and meaningless resolutions. As for economic win I like chains of production, generating money, luxuries, end economical strategies in general. I would like to see more of this aspect of the game in my Civ . Thats the whole story.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

In previous games, and implicitly if not effectively in Civ6 as well, what Culture Victory represents is one's culture becoming dominant over others, and this is certainly a thing that has happened many times in history. The Hellenistic Era is called that because Greek culture creeped into all the cultures surrounding the Mediterranean and even into Central and South Asia to some degree. Virtually all of the cultures surrounding Persia have been heavily influenced by Persian culture, and Persian culture in turn has been heavily influenced by Arab and Turkic cultures. Right now we can see literally the entire world being pummeled with American (or at least "Western") culture.

Indeed. If your neighbor is a large, prosperous empire with an innovative and splendorous culture, you might want to adopt that culture if you think it will benefit you.

 

[Zegangani]

In previous games, and implicitly if not effectively in Civ6 as well, what Culture Victory represents is one's culture becoming dominant over others, and this is certainly a thing that has happened many times in history. The Hellenistic Era is called that because Greek culture creeped into all the cultures surrounding the Mediterranean and even into Central and South Asia to some degree. Virtually all of the cultures surrounding Persia have been heavily influenced by Persian culture, and Persian culture in turn has been heavily influenced by Arab and Turkic cultures. Right now we can see literally the entire world being pummeled with American (or at least "Western") culture.

I admit, that's very true. I can even see it even regionally (national). So it should be called Culture Domination instead, and would require an overhaul, so that Tourism could affect it but isn't the main key to the Cultural Domination Victory.

 

[Linklite]

Why I want an Economic Victory Type: Because I dislike Victories like Religion or Culture Victories. Religion isn't something that you can control and force People to accept, and a Culture Victory shouldn't even exist. A civ can't be culturally better than other Civs because it has more Tourists than others.

I agree with you that one culture isn't objectively better than another, but one can dominate another. I see it in both the UK and Italy where the culture is becoming more Americanised. Tourism is perhaps an indirect and arguably poor measure of this, but I think that the Cultural Victory is actually one of the more meaningful and valid Victories. I could critique the other Victories (and will if you desire, but I don't want to just be preaching at the walls). I'm open to better measures of what it would mean to be culturally dominant, but it is a valid concept. Again, I'll say that doesn't mean that one culture is better than another, either in a measurable way or not, just more dominant or less.

I agree with you that one culture isn't objectively better than another, but one can dominate another. I see it in both the UK and Italy where the culture is becoming more Americanised. Tourism is perhaps an indirect and arguably poor measure of this, but I think that the Cultural Victory is actually one of the more meaningful and valid Victories. I could critique the other Victories (and will if you desire, but I don't want to just be preaching at the walls). I'm open to better measures of what it would mean to be culturally dominant, but it is a valid one. Again, I'll say that doesn't mean that one culture is better than another, either in a measurable way or not, just more dominant or less.

Ah ninja'd again. I should stop watching X Files while typing!

Hmm I dont expect it in Civ VI, but in Civ VII I would like to see it instead of Diplomatic Victory and probably World Congress. Why? World Congress and Diplo win with poor AI is just dull. World Congress is just a irritaiting pop up with RNG AI and meaningless resolutions. As for economic win I like chains of production, generating money, luxuries, end economical strategies in general. I would like to see more of this aspect of the game in my Civ . Thats the whole story.

I like the idea of a DipVic, but yes, I'm really not a fan of how it's been implemented.

 

[Zegangani]

I agree with you that one culture isn't objectively better than another, but one can dominate another. I see it in both the UK and Italy where the culture is becoming more Americanised. Tourism is perhaps an indirect and arguably poor measure of this, but I think that the Cultural Victory is actually one of the more meaningful and valid Victories. I could critique the other Victories (and will if you desire, but I don't want to just be preaching at the walls). I'm open to better measures of what it would mean to be culturally dominant, but it is a valid one. Again, I'll say that doesn't mean that one culture is better than another, either in a measurable way or not, just more dominant or less.

Exactly. It's just the way Civ VI didn't indicate what makes the Culture Victory, because Tourism alone isn't enough to justify it. Whereas a similar approach like the Loyalty Systeme (working automatically, but could be steared - like a combination of Relegion Pressure and Loyalty Systeme) would have been better IMO.