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What after the New Frontier Pass - the end or more

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Gradac, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    For what it's worth, I am also a modder and I disagree with the premise that modding for this game is heavily restricted. Some things are off-limits, yes, but by and large, the game is very flexible with mods (especially graphics).
     
  2. Zegangani

    Zegangani Prince

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    Unfortunately, No. Otherwise, you would have seen a Mod that does that. I think Infixo's Real Strategy Mod improves the AI settlement, but not very much. One main Issue is the AI Unit Movement that is moddable, but AI uses a Unit after it has been auto used via modding, even after all it's movement points were consumed. Hopefully someone will find a Solution for that, as it may be a Solution to nearly everything around Unit management (Combat, GP, Builders...etc).

    By Modding Communities, I suppose you mean a Project like Vox Populi? There could be something like that but not in a Demension of VP, as that would require access to the core DLL. Because the main Issue is still the AI that we can't mod. NFP released some few modding possibilities that can help has do something in that direction, but infortunately there isn't enough. There could have been much more with the NFP Modes, but FXS hardcoded nearly everything about the Modes.

    I didn't say that Civ VI modding is heavily limited, but there are limits that we can't cross. AI is one of them, which is a thorn in the eye when it comes to making/altering Mechanisms (like Combat and Diplomacy). But Yes, the game can indeed be very flexible with mods, and one of the best graphic modding methodes that we have are the Selection Rules that can make some stuff in the game change Appearance Mid-Game (Now we can change even Unit Appearance Mid-Game).
     
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  3. Nerevatar

    Nerevatar Warlord

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    Civ6 modding is in a funny place. It is very powerful when it is possible, but many aspects are off limit. Kinda binary in that way, either great or not possible.

    Of course it is not entirely that black and white, but it ain't far off.
     
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  4. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Yes, black/white is a good description, great in many aspect, and very limited in some others. And the result is so frustrating coming from civ4 and civ5...

    I've already said it, I think it's the iteration of the game for which they've put the most work into the modding tools, yet it's not the most moddable civ ever.
     
  5. blackbutterfly

    blackbutterfly Emperor

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    Free XCOM Mode with April update? :please:
     
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  6. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    If they do make another NFP-esque product for Civ 6, I do have one suggestion: based on the Wonder picker and CS picker, I would love for them to create a Shuffle Map where we can pick and choose which map scripts we want shuffled. It seems like a no brainer to me.
     
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  7. Gradac

    Gradac ВИТЕЗ СА ШТИТОМ

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    ow.. I would love that. Great idea :thumbsup:
     
  8. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    This looks like a good place to introduce:

    THE END OF HISTORY

    This phrase is associated bith Francis Fukuyama, but the concept can be found earlier in Sellar & Yeatman, and I daresay other places. The idea is that eventually one nation becomes so dominant that it can never be challenged - supposedly the USA today, but I wouldn't bet on it in the long run. So Civ 6 could have an "End of History victory" when the player is so far ahead, the other civs have no chance, but waiting for the conditions for other victory types to occur is tedious.

    The victory condition could be defined as:

    • The player (or civ) is leading in science, culture and domination.
    • The player (or civ) is leading in either religion or diplomacy.
    • The player (or civ) has a player score twice that of the next highest.

    Or it could be three times, it's open to discussion.
     
  9. bbbt

    bbbt Deity

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    I think that could work more as some sort of 'self declared' emergency. When meeting All X criteria (like ones you mentioned for example), civ can declare a "Premature Victory" and it becomes emergency with them vs every other Civ (including prior allies). Other Civs get 3 free copies of their strongest unit, +10 combat, +2 movement, and have maybe 30 turns to capture their capitol or they win.
     
  10. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    That's not the concept of End of History. Certainly not in Fukuyama. Where did you read that? :think:
     
  11. PiR

    PiR King Supporter

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    None of the victory condition listed was agressive, so why would it have to be war to counter the victory?
     
  12. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 King

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    I agree with this in the sense that there is no reason why a cultural victory should be differentiated from a diplomacy or religious victory. They are all the same thing folks!
     
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  13. berni19

    berni19 Chieftain

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    Problem of this game is in my opinion unbalanced complexity, graphics look and AI. Also don't like how they implemented workers (I mean charges and immediately effect of its usage). In previous editions it was very demanding for player to careful plan and construct roads (to see road in progress), to see workers connect luxuries and count those turns. This all was preparations for further thinking about next step and all those evolving events, which were all part of one more turn feeling. For me, those feelings are lost in CIV VI, so I went back to CIV V (however still give VI some open minded chance especially with new additions). Still there is some elements in VI worth implementation in V (districts with corporations, tech shuffle, map names, random events and many more), but if core is not at least solid it is tough to make game better. Sure must be some way to filter best ideas in whole CIV series and put it under the one umbrella, perhaps for Civ VII .
    My humble suggestion is to stop CIV VI development (except fixing bugs) and start fresh next one. Most important thing in my opinion is to put very simple frame as starting point and put layers of ideas and additions with slow hands into that frame.
     
  14. KyivanRusCivPlease

    KyivanRusCivPlease Prince

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    I can only say one thing: I definitely would pay for one more expansion/season pass just for civ 6 to develop further. I love the graphics and the gameplay and think that civ 6 still offers the devs a lot to play with and has a lot of room for improvement. I just don't see a point in releasing civ 7 and then very slowly adding the same systems that already exist in civ 6 and fixing bugs. I like when Firaxis have and implement new ideas, add or tweak things and balance systems in civ 6. I like watching developer livestreams and especially reading patch notes. I even think that the next expansion/season pass does not need new civs, natural/world wonders and city-states (probably only a few new leaders could do) and instead could focus on new optional game modes and new/reworked systems along with balance changes, bug fixes and AI imrovement.
    I wish Firaxis inspiration and new ideas to make civ 6 the best in the series! And I am ready to support this process financially.
     
  15. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

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    I think the key is for us to back off a little bit and let them move forward based on their state of development rather than our desires. We don't know where they're currently at in Firaxis studios; they could be passing around the champagne as their presumed final expansion nears release and are throwing around ideas and working on preliminary coding for Civ7, or they could have a half dozen game modes for Civ6 in various states of development, some just conceptual, some that are in development, and some that are ready for beta testing. If their intention was for this to be the grand finale, I say go with that. If they're already developing packs for a second season, that would be welcome as well.

    I just don't want them to deviate from their plan, which has proven to give us the product that we want, in response for overwhelming requests for more content in a product that they feel is complete - leading to "Season Pass 2: The Search for more Money." That's when we get rushed, junky content. I don't want to see "super yields mode" where they just double all yields of every tile as well as doubling all adjacencies, and I don't want to see super OP civs that get bonuses like +1 diplomatic victory point every time you send an envoy.

    Making a little analogy - a lot of times in the comic book industry (especially the movies), they rush out product to optimize timing with demand and don't put the necessary work into it, and then you have things becoming "canon" that are kind of detrimental to the franchise. Civ6 has a great "canon," and it would be a shame if they tarnished the whole package because we diverted them off course.
     
  16. AtlantisAuthor

    AtlantisAuthor Chieftain

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    As I've said before here, I suspect that there is still some sort of content or even another expansion or Season Pass, of only because of certain gaps in the unit progression (Mustketman straight to Infantry, Cold War Bombers serving as "Stealth" Bombers) and because some of the most notable Leaders associated with previous Civ games (Napoleon, Nobunaga, Julius/Augustus Caesar, Attila, Pocatello/Hiawatha, Bismarck, Washington/Lincoln, etc.) would seem to lend themselves toward a military-centric themed set of content. Maybe it will happen, maybe not, but as much content as there already is for Civ VI, it still feels like some pieces are missing. That said, I'll happily support either more content for Civ VI or enjoy it while we anxiously wait for Civ VII.

    If and when Firaxis does move on to Civ VII, I do have a personal Wish List (assuming most/all of the core features of Civ VI, such as Districts, carry over):

    1) A return of Leader animations more like Civ V's, where they are human beings instead of caricatures, and they're surrounded by the architecture/environments they're associated with instead of a stark, static, and depressing black backdrop.

    2) Maps that lean more toward Civ V's realistic aesthetic than Civ VI's more animated look. Don't get me wrong, Civ VI is a very pretty game as is, but (Civ V map mod aside), I really miss that more natural look to the topography.

    3) I'd personally rather that Firaxis stick strictly to semi-historical relevance the next time around. Zombies, vampires, mythological figures, Rock Bands, and post-apocalyptic modes have felt like personal indulgences on the part of the development team. While I've dabbled with some of them, they just don't hold my interest and detract from the core theme of the game, at least for me personally. I'd rather that time and effort be put into actual Civs, Leaders, Wonders, and core game mechanics refinements.

    4) Make mods available to console players as well as PC players in some form or fashion.

    5) The ability to select either the "Unknown Regions" map aesthetic or the white clouds of previous games for unexplored territory. While it seems to have improved over time, all of that uninterrupted brown sometimes makes it difficult to discern key details of explored territory in Civ VI.

    6) Alternate Leaders that actually play differently (such as how Napoleon would differ from Catherine de Medicci).
     
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  17. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Emperor

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    I bet on F'xis is working on Civ7 as we speak (Particularly with Humankind coming up). but if they want to do more expansions
    1. Siam and Burma should be added to the list and Southeast Asian rivalty scenario should also came to exists where China is also a big player.
    2. More leaders. actually Vic should get different UU instead of Redcoats.
     
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  18. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    Something like this would be brilliant.
     
  19. Henri Christophe

    Henri Christophe King

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    The END of History of Fukuyama can be the name of next Civ 6 Season
     
  20. ManoftheHour333

    ManoftheHour333 Warlord

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    3) I'd personally rather that Firaxis stick strictly to semi-historical relevance the next time around. Zombies, vampires, mythological figures, Rock Bands, and post-apocalyptic modes have felt like personal indulgences on the part of the development team. While I've dabbled with some of them, they just don't hold my interest and detract from the core theme of the game, at least for me personally. I'd rather that time and effort be put into actual Civs, Leaders, Wonders, and core game mechanics refinements. [/QUOTE]

    Rock bands? Um...those exist so I wouldn't say that's an issue. Plus it spiced up CV a little bit so I had no problems

    But I will say that I never play with secret societies on 100% because of the vampires...and this sucks since the OoM bonuses seems super fun!

    This is my opinion but Civ VI is, at it's core, a historically-based strategy game. When you blur the lines with zombies, vampires, soothseyers, and King Arthur running around with coconuts..you just lose so much credibility. We play Civ for the historical reimagine and strategy based on the interesting attributes each civ/leader brings to the table...not to fight zombies. Game modes like barbarian clans and corporations are great because they are natural progressions in a civ match...adding in fictional/mythlogical stuff is such a clear and distinct side-step that it takes you right out of the game.

    I know that the devs are likely adding in these fictional gam mods to appeal to the masses (I apologize if I'm in the minority yet complaining) who can't get enough of the early 2010's zombie fad but it really side-steps from the core of civ. And it more importantly tells me that maybe the Civ VI engine is just really hard to implement the features we've been all wanting to see in Civ VI (Better economics/EV, better diplomacy, better AI)...so while I wouldn't care if they added new stuff to VI, I just want them to roll on to Civ VII.

    Make sure to keep the districts though-that was a good idea lol
     
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