What are the next lost lanuages?

[Winner]

I think you care about it more, hence why my posts are FULL of errors that i don't go back and fix. Why wouldn't you like to speak it all the time? (I'm monolingual so i can't compare to anything else)

I can think of several reasons.
1) There are things you just cannot express that well in two languages. Thus, if you were forced to speak one language all the time, a piece of your feelings would be untransmissible, you would "die a little" on the inside.
2) One's native language will always come more natural (unless the person hasn't lived very very long in a foreign country, which is not Winner's case), and easier to express. It's good to be able to relax every once in a while and not care about the way you speak.
3) You would lose the ability to communicate with those around you, since far from everyone around Winner or me speaks English. You would also lose the ability to read the literature of your country, everything that's been written as time went by.

It's quite a lot to miss...

What Mirc said, except the third point - I don't think Mowque meant that you'd forget your native language entirely.

Thinking in English - the process of conceptualizing - is harder. Plus, there are things which you simply can't say in English without losing a lot of the original meaning, which then "lost in translation".

 

[Mowque]

Thinking in English - the process of conceptualizing - is harder. .

Sorry if i'm beating a dead horse, but what do you mean? Can you explain? Are you saying some languages are better then others? For different tasks? Might that not aid/hinder the death of languages?

 

[Godwynn]

Sorry if i'm beating a dead horse, but what do you mean? Can you explain? Are you saying some languages are better then others? For different tasks? Might that not aid/hinder the death of languages?

He means it is easier to think in his native Czech, than it is to think in English.

 

[Bast]

Umm... Avestan is extinct.

 

[warpus]

Sorry if i'm beating a dead horse, but what do you mean? Can you explain? Are you saying some languages are better then others? For different tasks? Might that not aid/hinder the death of languages?

It's not a matter of different or worse..

A language is not simply a set of words. A language is a way to look at the world.

Think of each language as a seperate lens. I have 3 lenses at my disposal: English, Polish, and to a lesser extent, German. The world looks different depending on which lens I use.

To people who only speak one language (and even people who speak multiple languages, but who have only used one primary language all their lives) this wouldn't make much sense. To them a language is simply a way to describe the world.. and it might seem as though it's just words.. and every language has words, right? So what's the difference?

Well, each language has certain nuances, some of which can't really be explained. It is easy enough to get the general meaning of a phrase across in multiple languages, but there is a certain amount of hidden meaning that is lost when you translate a book to a different language, for example.

A language is more than just a collection of words.

 

[holy king]

what warpus said.

 

[Winner]

Sorry if i'm beating a dead horse, but what do you mean? Can you explain? Are you saying some languages are better then others? For different tasks? Might that not aid/hinder the death of languages?

I mean that it is harder for me

To the second part - as I said earlier, English is perfect for science, military and business - that's why so many English words are being assimilated in Czech (business - byznys, manager - manažer etc.). But when you want to talk with your friends about your holiday, Czech is better (in my subjective opinion) because you can express (formulate?) things in so many ways with so many nuances, that English looks rather limited in comparison.

But hey, most likely it's just me and my pathetic knowledge of English, so I may be wrong here

 

[dutchfire]

speaking of which, i remember i had a childhood friend from the netherlands, and by the time he was 7 he spoke dutch, english, polish, german fluently and was learning french. Is this normal in the Netherlands or was he a special case?

Most of us don't speak Polish

More seriously, at 7 I think most children here only speak Dutch, I think they start teaching English around the age of 11 in most schools.

 

[Mirc]

(business - byznys, manager - manažer etc.).

A rather off-topic comment related to those words:

- "business" was probably the first English word to enter my language's vocabulary, it's been around for so long that people will not even believe me when I tell them it is related to the English word; but somehow, it managed to lose its original meaning and it means "smuggling" or "selling on the black market" or a number of other illegal activities involving goods.
- I hate it when I use the correct English pronounciation of the word "manager" and people around here correct me! "Nooo, the stress should be on the second syllable" -> "OH REALLY?"


Back on topic, what warpus said is perfectly true. With every word and expression in a language comes a history of that word and that expression. A history of varied meanings, of slight semantic changes, which do not exist in another language. With every word or expression a certain "emotional attachment" is transmitted, and that changes a lot when translating. You will simply lose a part of yourself if you lost the ability to communicate in a language.

 

[holy king]

"business" was probably the first English word to enter my language's vocabulary, it's been around for so long that people will not even believe me when I tell them it is related to the English word; but somehow, it managed to lose its original meaning and it means "smuggling" or "selling on the black market" or a number of other illegal activities involving goods.

see, that, mowque. you cant really translate the meaning of this romanicised english word into english by saying "smuggling".

same as you cant say "leader" to an englishman and expect to cause the exact same feelings as if you say "führer" to a german.

 

[Winner]

- "business" was probably the first English word to enter my language's vocabulary, it's been around for so long that people will not even believe me when I tell them it is related to the English word; but somehow, it managed to lose its original meaning and it means "smuggling" or "selling on the black market" or a number of other illegal activities involving goods.
- I hate it when I use the correct English pronounciation of the word "manager" and people around here correct me! "Nooo, the stress should be on the second syllable" -> "OH REALLY?"

It has a similar alternate meaning in Czech too The wonders of post-communist world

Back on topic, what warpus said is perfectly true. With every word and expression in a language comes a history of that word and that expression. A history of varied meanings, of slight semantic changes, which do not exist in another language. With every word or expression a certain "emotional attachment" is transmitted, and that changes a lot when translating. You will simply lose a part of yourself if you lost the ability to communicate in a language.

I can only agree with this. Sometimes I am having troubles on Czech forums, because I got too used to expressing certain things in English, that I can't formulate them properly in Czech.

I really don't understand how can someone speak 6 or 7 languages...

 

[Winner]

see, that, mowque. you cant really translate the meaning of this romanicised english word into english by saying "smuggling".

same as you cant say "leader" to an englishman and expect to cause the exact same feelings as if you say "führer" to a german.

I thought you're still using it a lot...

BTW, it's funny how many Czech words originally came from German. What's even funnier is that they usually have "correct" alternatives, but they survive in common Czech.

Especially in Brno

 

[Thorbal]

I thought you're still using it a lot...

Well, it has fallen out of fashion a bit . We now use "Leiter" in civilian areas and "Anführer" if it can´t be avoided.

One exception: the word Führerschein, which means driving license - and literally meaning something like "leader certificate" if you translate it directly (as it permits the leading of a vehicle). Which has led to it´s own subgenre of Hitler jokes.
Another one: "Bergführer" (Berg - mountain, Führer - well you know) - English "mountain guide". See above -> Hitler jokes.

 

[Winner]

Well, it has fallen out of fashion a bit . We now use "Leiter" in civilian areas and "Anführer" if it can´t be avoided.

One exception: the word Führerschein, which means driving license - and literally meaning something like "leader certificate" if you translate it directly (as it permits the leading of a vehicle). Which has led to it´s own subgenre of Hitler jokes.
Another one: "Bergführer" (Berg - mountain, Führer - well you know) - English "mountain guide". See above -> Hitler jokes.

Stupid Hitler, he discredited so many words, names and religious symbols

 

[warpus]

Stupid Hitler, he discredited so many words, names and religious symbols

not to mention haircuts and moustaches.

 

[holy king]

Well, it has fallen out of fashion a bit . We now use "Leiter" in civilian areas and "Anführer" if it can´t be avoided.

One exception: the word Führerschein, which means driving license - and literally meaning something like "leader certificate" if you translate it directly (as it permits the leading of a vehicle). Which has led to it´s own subgenre of Hitler jokes.
Another one: "Bergführer" (Berg - mountain, Führer - well you know) - English "mountain guide". See above -> Hitler jokes.

i seriously have never heard a hitler joke about mountain guides.

not to mention haircuts and moustaches.

those would be awful even without hitler.

 

[Volum]

Well we have 2 official languages here still, so we can afford to lose one 13% of the population write "Nynorsk", and everybody has to learn it

But we have a lot of dialects that gets "watered" out. I live in a "Valley" where traditions usually have been held in high regards, but a lot of it is slowly dieing away. My teacher talked about how you could see the last years how "city words" moved trough the area. My dialect is actually the language closest in Norway to the old norse language. Something about our "thick L" or something.

 

[LucyDuke]

I see you mean it as a joke, but...

Czech is actually much better for everyday life, especially if you like word plays, puns, double meanings and you want to precisely explain you feelings, experiences etc.

English is the language of science, military and business. It's efficient and exact. I sometimes have a hard time translating things from English because that what you say in two short words can't be translated with less than 4 long Czech words, and even then you don't fully get the original meaning.

Better for you, a native Czech speaker. English has her share of wordplay and expression. You can't very well quantify those things. If Czech needed to express those science, military, and business things, y'all would grow words for 'em.

 

[holy king]

Better for you, a native Czech speaker. English has her share of wordplay and expression. You can't very well quantify those things. If Czech needed to express those science, military, and business things, y'all would grow words for 'em.

of course winner was a bit naive about english's (?) ability to express casual things, but i think there is indeed a qualitative difference between languages when it comes to expressing special topics.
( i dont think you can have the same conversation about snow in mayan languages as in norwegian for example.)

 

[LucyDuke]

of course winner was a bit naive about english's (?) ability to express casual things, but i think there is indeed a qualitative difference between languages when it comes to expressing special topics.
( i dont think you can have the same conversation about snow in mayan languages as in norwegian for example.)

No, but the point is that that's just incidental, it's not because Norwegian has some inherent inability to grasp the concept of "summer". If Norway had summers, Norwegian would be able to describe them thoroughly.