What Changes Should the New Civs get in the Fall Patch?

[Falconiano]

My take on Germany and Japan:

Germany

Furor Teutonicus is fine as it is, it's actually a really good ability esp with the honor tree as it allows you to farm barbarian camps to become wealthy or build an army, it gets even better when you change the game speed to epic or marathon.

Landsknecht are actually good good as they counter mounted units (100% bonus v.s 50% bonus) , and are cheaper than the pikeman that they replace (45 production v.s 90 production).

The Panzer has an additional 10 combat strength as well as an additional movement, also fine as is.
So the real question is how can we make this civilization any better? What i'd also suggest is Furor Teutonicus giving an additional bonus v.s barbarians like 25%

Japan

I know there are alot of people that think bushido is subpar but i've always had good luck with the ability and think it's one of the stronger UA's in the game when fighting another domination civ. Samauri on the other hand are really subpar . As it stands the promotions they get are nice but i think they should just be given a unique ability where they deal double damage while counter attacking (I.E being enganged by another melee unit while fortified) This will represent the counterattack style of the katana.

The Zero doesnt work very well with this civ as it comes so much later than their first UU, I'd honestly just remove the damned thing and replace it with a unique UU called a ninja that has 2 tile range stealth against military units and only unstealths when attacking a civlian unit. I'd have them appear like merchants of venice for Venice. This unit would have unique promotions that would improve stealth and later allow it to sneak attack military units.

This change alone would make Japan a better and more unique civilization.

Agreed that Zero is the only thing really in need of change, and perhaps Samurai needs a better ability.

 

[VainoValkea]

It was noted in another thread that Zero is pretty necessary for Japan to preserve the "role-play WWII Axis Japan!" option.

 

[Wodan]

perhaps Samurai needs a better ability.

I don't get that. Free promotions are awesome, and stick with the unit through upgrades into modern times. Samurai has 2 of them.

Maybe it's a "boring" benefit, but the gameplay is definitely there.

 

[TheZombifiedGuy]

China - PLEASE PLEASE change this, I just...REALLY don't like it. Powerful? Sure. Boring? VERY. It's the most bland warmongering ability, and does China no justice whatsoever. A major center of civilization and one of the most powerful nations in the world today, and we get...more great generals...yay? I want something that represents their historical technological innovation. A simple, powerful thing I thought of was this: Technologies require only one prerequisite to research. It makes beelining desirable techs an effective strategy, and offers a lot of flexibility and powerful options, especially in espionage. The Paper Maker should make resource diversity in trade routes provide science for both parties involved, as China was the endpoint in the Silk Road and along it, gave the world many innovations while learning from them as well. Chu-Ko-Nu is fine.

I like some of the ideas here. It's always bothered me that a civilization as historically significant - particularly for their scientific innovations - as China gets a plain warmongering UA (admittedly a decent one, but still). While I don't know exactly what changes should be made, I think it'd be interesting to make them a science civ with some explicit incentive (probably in the UA) to go wide and expand rather than go tall (the way Babylon or Korea tend to go).

I think Japan could do with some significant changes. In keeping with Firaxis' comments about possibly changing Japan to reflect its isolationist nature in the Fall Patch, what if Japan got a bonus to culture as long as they make no trade routes with other civs? They could also represent Japan's rapid modernization by making it so that if they do choose to make trade routes with other civs, they get more science from the technology gap. Something along those lines, as well as replacing the Zero with a UB, would make Japan more fun to play, at least for me.

 

[nimzo28]

I would like to see this UA for Egypt: "+20% production towards Wonder construction. Can build all pre-Medieval "particular Wonder" without having to unlock the corresponding Social Policy, but, in this case, without the +20% production bonus".

So Egypt would be able to build Hanging Garden without Tradition unlocked, Pyramids without Liberty, Statue of Zeus without Honor, Great Mosque of Djenne without Piety, Forbidden Palace without Patronage, and Uffizi without Aesthetic.

 

[Sandling]

Oh, and I wouldn't mind a small tweak to the Netherlands - they're mostly fine, but it would be cool if the luxuries you "traded away" still counted towards the gold gained from trade routes.

The Netherlands should receive +1 happiness for every unique luxury a Civilization has that The Netherlands doesn't own themself upon a trade route with said Civilization. Similarly, the target Civilization will get +1 happiness for every unique luxury The Netherlands has that they don't have themself. This would tie in nicely with their current ability and make use of the new traderoute system without needing to abolish the old one - In fact, micromanaging your luxury resources would work even nicer this way while ensuring wanting to have a lot of traderoutes with a lot of different civilizations.

 

[Cromagnus]

Enemy Blade makes a good sacrificial lamb. Charge in and sit next to the capital the same turn you set up catapults. The AI will ignore a catapult to go after your slightly injured swordsman. You don't care if that one dies anyway. If he somehow survives, you do it again for the next city. To me, the good promotions are so good that this just balances it out. Eventually, you have lots of good promotions and no bad ones. Also, you can leave Enemy Blade swordsmen behind to guard your territory. The only problem is that they take up an iron slot. Which is why I sacrifice them. ;-)

 

[quantum42]

I would like to see Venice tweaked a bit. When a city-state is purchased, a human player should be able to manage the annexed city like any city that other civs build.

 

[Fluxx]

Siege tower should be nerfed into the ground.
Impi's + UB are also stupendously strong in the hand of a human player. Impi's -> deity rifleman.

For older civs I think most has been said already.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I would like to see Venice tweaked a bit. When a city-state is purchased, a human player should be able to manage the annexed city like any city that other civs build.

It's not annexed though, it's puppeted. Venice has more control over its ancillary cities than any other civ because nobody else can rush buy in them.

 

[quantum42]

I rush buy units and buildings often in all cities playing as any other civ. Venice cannot change the production in puppeted cities. If Venice is founded away from the coast or mountains, wonders associated with coastlines or mountains cannot be built by the puppets. For example, Machu Picchu would be a big bonus for Venice, but most of the time the initial settler is not close enough to a mountain.

 

[Yzman]

I rush buy units and buildings often in all cities playing as any other civ. Venice cannot change the production in puppeted cities. If Venice is founded away from the coast or mountains, wonders associated with coastlines or mountains cannot be built by the puppets. For example, Machu Picchu would be a big bonus for Venice, but most of the time the initial settler is not close enough to a mountain.

But you don't rush buy in PUPPETS. Venice is the only civ that can do that and would be broken if they could annex cities as opposed to just puppeting them.

 

[dodzylla]

I was just wondering if you think in the fall patch, any BNW Civs need/will get a tweak.
Personally:

• Feitoria: Should be able to replace a tile improvement, provided it is not improving a strategic or luxury resource.
• Impi: The ranged attack should receive a combat penalty.
• Kris Swordsman: Should receive some sort of promotion regardless of the random one. Maybe Drill I?
• Shoshone UA: Should get fewer tiles.
• Indonesia UA: Your capital gets one of the three special strategic resources (so Nutmeg, Cloves, or Pepper), and only the first 2 cities foundedd on a different continent get the others.

What do you guys think?

Bad idea, all of them are good except indonesia, i think shoshone not strong, early game is good but after that... in multiplayer they are not too good.

 

[LordProtector]

I think almost all the BNW9 are pretty much on it actually, for example I like the Shoshone's huge spread, it makes them brilliant to play against, Venice has a mega UA and Geemov combo and the blander Galleas calms everything down. It's a good bunch. Indonesia is a bit of a 'hmm', agreed, but that could be fixed by giving the capital one of the unique resources, or adding another for it, and then it would be quite equal to the 9.

I'm with the consensus that it's the Vanillas that need a buff, all of them potentially. That would be very kind of the development team, but maybe a bit too much work? Even if it was just a little tweak to each of the UAs, it would be very much appreciated.

 

[Tachii]

Does everyone simply take all the Buffalo promotions for Shaka or do they straight go for the open/rough terrain ones?

Btw, the ranged attack is OK, I don't think it needs to be nerfed. But the +1 movement for every melee non-mounted unit is kind of...... crazy. It took me a while for me to get past the Great Wall but it certainly made everything easier. Your 3 movement Rifleman + 30% ranged defense + whatever else you buffed him with is pretty ridiculous.

Assyria needs to be balanced more. No idea how though.

 

[Wodan]

Enemy Blade makes a good sacrificial lamb. Charge in and sit next to the capital the same turn you set up catapults. The AI will ignore a catapult to go after your slightly injured swordsman. You don't care if that one dies anyway. If he somehow survives, you do it again for the next city. To me, the good promotions are so good that this just balances it out. Eventually, you have lots of good promotions and no bad ones. Also, you can leave Enemy Blade swordsmen behind to guard your territory. The only problem is that they take up an iron slot. Which is why I sacrifice them. ;-)

That comes under the "Silver Lining" department, not an actual argument that it doesn't need to be changed.

Frankly, units are a pretty high commodity in CiV, expensive to build, expensive to maintain. That units better be damn good if I have a 20% chance of a big negative hit. And, it's not (damn good, that is).

 

[Gyra Solune]

Does everyone simply take all the Buffalo promotions for Shaka or do they straight go for the open/rough terrain ones?

Btw, the ranged attack is OK, I don't think it needs to be nerfed. But the +1 movement for every melee non-mounted unit is kind of...... crazy. It took me a while for me to get past the Great Wall but it certainly made everything easier. Your 3 movement Rifleman + 30% ranged defense + whatever else you buffed him with is pretty ridiculous.

Assyria needs to be balanced more. No idea how though.

I always go straight for the Ikanda promotions, yes. They're crazy potent even on Spearmen.

 

[black213]

In my opinion Shoshone could lose the defense bonus, that's Ethiopia's territory...

 

[dodzylla]

In my opinion they have to change on culture victory, i think culture victory is too hard now, and diplomatic victory is too easy.

+ i pray for a upgrade on harald ( dannish) because they got 2 UU , but i think they should change ski infantry for a building mb somthing for tundra tiles...

 

[kb27787]

Impis need a serious nerf (if chukonu's are 13 to crossbowmen 18, Impi should be 12 to pikeman's 16) Ikandas need a nerf (more expensive to build or something) or their promotions should be scaled down to something less OP.

Shoshone starting territory needs to be scaled down a bit; as is they can block whole choke points with a single city and spending no gold whatsoever for all that extra land. Bonus from ruins is fine, but they should start with warriors like everyone else, and not pathfinders.

I have no idea how to, but Portugal needs a nerf to UA and a buff to AI (Maria just sits with 7000 gold and 300 gpt even on 5 cities and she has no religion to tithe off)

Change Assyria's bonus to stealing beakers instead of whole techs, proportional to what was being produced in the target city.

Brazil is fine. Maybe make their carnival bonus be additive with the internet instead of with all those modifiers for OB, religion, ideology (so you have more success keeping their tourism out through isolation policies)

Maybe Venice needs to be buffed a bit (since CSs do tend to get very bad spawn locations with little food) maybe make puppeted CSs gain extra tile yields according to difficulty (on prince, nothing; on emperor and above +50% food/hammer/gold yield) Since I do believe they received those bonuses before you puppet them. Or maybe allow the human player to change the city's focus.