What Civs Would You Have?

Technocactus

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Mar 19, 2006
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Stratford, Warks, England
Assuming you are given complete control to pick whatever civs you want, which would you pick? 18 civs for a core game, 6 for a first expansion, and 6 for a second expansion. You don't have to satisfy commercial requirements or anything, just which you most want in the game.

My choices:

Core Game:
America
Arabia
Aztecs
Babylon
Carthage
China
Egypt
England
France
Germany
Greece
India
Japan
Mongolia
Ottomans
Persia
Rome
Russia

Expansion 1:
Byzantium
Celtia
Inca
Scandanavia
Spain
Zulu

Expansion 2:
Ghana
Iroqoius
Khmer
Maya
Netherlands
Portugal


Post your own. Discuss others. Whatever.
 

Jawsofwar

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Dec 25, 2005
Messages
81
Location
Lexington , KY
Ok here goes :)

Core Game:

Babylon (cant believe it wasn't in civ4:mad: )
Persia
Greece
Egypt
Rome
Spain
France
Germany
England
Russia
Mongolia
China
Japan
India
America
Native American tribe (Iroquois) <<< why because it would be fun!
Aztecs
Ottomans

Expansion Civs

Sweden or Norway (Vikings)
Netherlands (dutch)
Poland
Mali Empire
Portugal
Incans
Mayans
Byzantine Empire
Israel
Korea
Carthage
 

magritte

Warlord
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
203
Core game:
Aztec
Maya
Inca
Egypt
Phoenecia
Hittites
Greece
Rome
Celts
Germans
Chinese
Japanese
Indians
Persians
Sumerians
Slavs
Mali
Abyssinia
Mongols

Expansion I
Hebrews
Turks
Arabs
Pueblo
Zimbabwe
Polynesia
 

magritte

Warlord
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Aug 29, 2004
Messages
203
I wouldn't include civilizations like England, France, etc. because they're successive developments of older civilizations.
 

SkippyT

Who?
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Feb 25, 2006
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Reykjavík, Iceland
Core Game:
China, greatest civ of all times
Rome, second greatest civ of all times
Greece, greatest cultural civ of all times: the Parthenon, Temple of Artemis, Colossus etc
Egypt, loads of stuff comes from Egypt: the Keops Pyramids, the Sphinx and Cleopatra
India, aa :)..the peaceful Gandhi and an unique culture
Aztecs, and the warmongering masters of Meso America
Arabia, greatest medieval power
Maya, greatest early scientific, cultural civ
Ethiopia, representing "Black" Africa
Persia, huge empire and good leaders
Scandinavia, greatest explorers of all times and best warriors of the early medieval + greatest modern civ ;)
Sumeria, first civ ever
France, just because they're French
England, largest empire in the world....
Mongolia, ....besides Mongolia
Spain, evil inquistion, massacres of innocent Indians. Why not? :crazyeye:
Japan, honourable people until they got to know the Germans
Russia, Stalin was a genius..except, well,..that he killed some innocent people

Expansion 1:
Germany, almost a core civ but Hitler will never be in so they haven't got a solid leader that deserves a place with the top 18 civs
Siam, Southeast Asia also needs to be representated
Israel, greatest "religion civ" of all times
Turkey, hmm..could have conquered Europe
Mali, just because of the Malinese money making monster Mansa Musa
Inca, representing S-America

Expansion 2:
Poland, second greatest Eastern European civ
Polynesia, largest empire at 1000 AD - represents a totally unknown area = exotic = fun
Carthage, to give Rome a challenge
Babylonia, Sumeria beats Babylonia any day of the year but because so many like the babies, I gotta put 'em on my list
Celts, the magic pot makes the difference
Holland, the last to make it in

:)

btw: America doesn't deserve to be a civ. Even though it'll always be in.
 

Thedrin

Deity
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
2,652
Core Game

England
Hapsburgs
Russia
France
Germany
Rome
Macedon
China
Japan
India
Mongolia
Persia
Arabia
Hittites
United States
Inca
Egypt
Abyssinia/Mali

Expansion I

Khmer
Mali/Abyssinia
Sumeria
Ottomanns
Zimbabwe
Greece

Expansion II

Anasazi
Polynesia
Babylon
Scandinavians
Phoenicia
Inuit
 

fugazi

King
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Nov 2, 2005
Messages
957
Location
The Netherlands,
I'm always baffled by how low most people put The Netherlands on these lists. Sure, national pride is a big part of why people vote what they vote but what do they teach people in other countries about The Netherlands? My Swedish girlfriend barely knew anything about The Netherlands while she's highly educated and all that jazz.

Oh as for what civs - too many to list but I'll name a few :

-Rome
-Greece
-Carthage
-Egypt
-China
-Aztec
-Ottoman
-Persia
-Germany
-Holland
-France
-Britain
-Japan
-India
-ZuluLand
-Russia
-Scandinavia
-Spain

Expansion
-Inca
-A North-America Native Tribe
-Mali
-Poland
-Korea
-Israel
 

TylerDurdon

Warlord
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Sep 12, 2005
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150
Location
Quebec, Canada
I wouldn't include civilizations like England, France, etc. because they're successive developments of older civilizations.

Well Arab is a Persian successive too than :D
 

Thedrin

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Messages
2,652
I'm always baffled by how low most people put The Netherlands on these lists.

A major power for about a century until England developed its own advanced system of banking. Its power during this period was artificially elevated by 1) aid recieved from major powers who feared the Hapsburgs, 2) that the Hapsburgs controlled such a large amount of non-contiguous area and 3) the Hapsburgs fought multiple wars during this period spreading resources thinly. After gaining independence and after the breaking of the Hapsburgs, its independence was maintained by foreign powers who feared another nation gaining control of large amounts of territory - not by itself, e.g. France's expansionist policies under Louis XIV were tempered by England and other powers.

Well Arab is a Persian successive too than

No, it's not. The Arabs were the nation that finally broke the Persian empire.
 

Forellenfilet

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
19
Core
America
Carthage
China
Egypt
England
Germany
Ghana
Inca
India
Iroquois
Khmer
Mongols
Persia
Rome
Russia
Spain
Sumer
Zulu

Exp1
Arabs
Aztecs
Brazil
Greece
Hittites
Polynesians

Exp2
Argentina
Babylon
Byzantium
Maya
Ottomans
Portugal
 

mitsho

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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
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Europe, more or less
First, another question would be on the leaders. As there are civilizations that deserve more than one, (e.g. an easy way to represent both the Brits and the English, both of which are worthy of inclusion, but not at the same time), it is a question not to forget!
But if you ask just for the civs, here is my list:

Core
America: No matter how much you discuss it, they deserve inclusion!
Arabia: A very big people with big influence on history
Aztec: Classy, it's a civ evergreen.
Babylon: Same as above!
China: It is that large it'd deserve more than one civ, but that's sadly not possible ;)
Egypt: Don't count the millenia of years of culture, it's just too much ;)
England: English is the modern world language. The Problem with Britain is avoided by adding leaders from both eras and "merging" Scotland, Ireland and others with the Celts.
France: Hegemonial power of most of Europe's History, pressing its culture into everything, being it Absolutism or the French Revolution.
Germany: Slightly a opposite of France, this people is important (From HRE to WWII)
Greece: The basis of our Western civilization and although quite exotic, it is in, both with aggressive Alexandrian Hellenism and City-state democracy.
India: not thinkable without.
Japan: it squeezes itself in
Mongolia: With it's half seat and China's other one, it just gets inclusion.
Persia: Alexander needs someone to conquer. ;) But it is also one of the few countries with a continuing history, don't forget the Shahs of Isfahan, Rai and the Ayatollas of Teheran.
Rome: Define Civilization: Rome!
Russia: From St. Petersburg to Wladiwostok, the Russian Winter awaits you.
Turks: If you think Ottoman, yes, but also don't forget the Seljuks and the other Turkmenic tribes.

First expansion:
Celts: Not only the Gauls, but also the Gaelics, mix it somehow and better than as in civ4 (Bibracte was a Humiliating defeat, not even a great one, and certainly no big city! Why don't they take Alesia or Gergovia?)
Inca: More Worthy than the Aztecs, but popularity counts more.
Spain: Also I am very sorry not to have put you in into the core game.
Carthage: Classic Civilization Civ.
Mali: improve Africa, Yeah!
Poland: This one is so many times just overlooked and I really need to make a case for their inclusion. How many Slavic civs do we have? and how many Germanic/Romanic (Western Europe) ones? It's history with the partitions is unique, interesting and it just fills the gap.

Second Expansion:
Khmer: I think the Khmer have more flavour than the Thai, imho.
Maya: Astrology mysteries, always interesting
Assyria: It has a hard time besides Babylon, but I think we can include it.
Scandinavia: Not the vikings!
Iroquois: Better than the Sioux and nevertheless native American.
Korea: I have a hard time deciding between Korea, Austria-Hungary (both as one civ!) and Ethiopia (no Zulu!). rating: 1. Korea 2. Ethiopia 3. Austria-Hungary

I didn't include the Netherlands and Portugal due to the reasons that they are quite specific civs that do not add cultural variety (in comparison to Mali, Korea, the Khmer or the Scandinavians). Holland is a own culture , but - sorry to say - it is kind of a mixture between Germany (look at the language and history), England and France. Its greatest achievements are shown/included as European Colonialism with England and France. It is the same with Portugal, no place besides Spain, I'm sorry.

A few words to the other lists:

@skippy_T You think Bismarck is no worthy leader? I advise you go read something on him, he managed to fool all of Europes top diplomats when he was in office grabbing a "place under the sun" for Germany in the top league. When he went, Germany declined and lost many of his gains which ultimately ended in World War I, and we know what that ended in.
The Old Fritz (Frederick II. of Prussia) on the other hand is the classic leader guy. Diplomatic Genius, a good "general" and really educated.

@magritte that's just weird. Your creating not the game "Civilization", but rather "Social Evolution" or something like that.

@Thedrin Including the Habsburg is somehow genius (as you can merge some cultures into it), but it's definitely a totally different way than all the other civs (you mentioned), and that's why it doesn't work.

mfG mitsho
 

Powerslave

Prince
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
388
Location
USA
In another of these threads, I made the same suggestion and argument that Magritte did, and I received the same reaction. Nevertheless, I believe that including England, America, Holland, etc, only serves nationalistic pride and keeps the game European-heavy. I have no problem with modern day nation-states (France, England, Poland, America), but I would prefer ancient civilizations (Sumeria, Egypt, China, Greece). Why have both Rome and England? England is just Romans on an island. Now, if it were the Angles or the Saxons, that'd be different.

Saxon... now I want to listen to some British power metal.
 

Thedrin

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Jan 24, 2002
Messages
2,652
@Thedrin Including the Habsburg is somehow genius (as you can merge some cultures into it), but it's definitely a totally different way than all the other civs (you mentioned), and that's why it doesn't work.

I don't quite get your meaning. Could you expand on that?
 

fugazi

King
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Nov 2, 2005
Messages
957
Location
The Netherlands,
If landmass and military might makes a country worthy of entrance into the list, sure we ain't the biggest fish around but I think you're forgetting that we possessed a lot of colonies in Indonesia and the enormous wealth that came along with it. There's way more to say about the why such as technological and social advancements but seeing as you know a lot of the Habsburgers and thus likely the 15th, 16th and 17th century we'd most likely just be entertaining others with information ;) about the only reason why we shouldn't be put in would be the fact we haven't won the World Cup yet :lol:

The Habsburgers might better be represented in the form of a country such as Austria,Swiss, Spain or Germany. The family sure is a big player in history but wouldn't fit into the game if you ask me if they were to be implemented as the family itself. Otherwise we could have the Julii instead of the Romans with Caesar and Augustus as leaders. Guess it's preference but for historical correctness I play games like Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings (Paradox rocks).

Mitsho - you're contradicting yourself unless you're saying that all Europeans are alike and simply the biggest bunch of them put together are worthy of being put in such as Britain and France. Our culture is very much our own and of course we integrated parts of cultures of others, that's what made Holland what it is and was - a country known for it's social tolerance, acceptance and liberalism.

These topics always remind us that no matter how many civ slots the game has, it will never be enough :p
 

mitsho

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Europe, more or less
Ok, I was impliciting the dynasty effect. The Hapsburg are a dynasty originating from the Holy Roman Empire (their home castle lies - ironically - in modern Switzerland) ever expanding their might, seizing power in Vienna, the Netherlands, - and now I need to be careful as not to be wrong - Spain, Napoli. (I'm referring mostly to Karl V. - 16th century). They are a dynasty that seized power in different European countries. What do you want to represent with them? Austria? Wouldn't it then be easier to just name it Austria? Or are you talking of the whole of their possesions? It's just too heterocultural to me!
If you compare, you listed nations, cultures or states, the Habsburg are your only dynasty. That's why I wonder. Did you misname it, or what exactly do you want to represent with it?

mitsho

PS: @fugazi, if you were talking to me: Yes, certainly, the Dutch are important. But I tried to go slightly off Western Europe and go more on a world focus (I know, I am still pretty Western-Euro centric, but it needs to be a bit overrepresented!). My argument is thus not the power and influence, but world distribution.
And btw. One of the bigger reasons for me to include the Dutch besides Indonesia, the Banking system and New Amsterdam would be - by far - the Boers of South Africa.
 

Bongo-Bongo

The Master
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
621
Core Game

England
China
Egypt
Rome
Greece
India
America
Carthage
Babylon
Japan
Aztec
Maya
Scandinavia
France
Mongols
Persia
Arabia
Germany

Expansion 1

Turks
Hittites
Celts
Khmer
Mali
Russia

Expansion 2

Inca
Spain
Portugal
Ethiopia
Byzantine
For the last spot, I'm undecided between Poland, Dacia, Kongo and Korea.
 

Thedrin

Deity
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Jan 24, 2002
Messages
2,652
If landmass and military might makes a country worthy of entrance into the list, sure we ain't the biggest fish around but I think you're forgetting that we possessed a lot of colonies in Indonesia and the enormous wealth that came along with it. There's way more to say about the why such as technological and social advancements but seeing as you know a lot of the Habsburgers and thus likely the 15th, 16th and 17th century we'd most likely just be entertaining others with information about the only reason why we shouldn't be put in would be the fact we haven't won the World Cup yet

Netherlands could have been considered a world power. Being a second rate European power in the 17th - 19th centuries would make you a lot more powerful than the vast majority of extra-European nations. The game is already European heavy so I've decided to include European states that were the masters of their own destiny.

The Habsburgers might better be represented in the form of a country such as Austria,Swiss, Spain or Germany. The family sure is a big player in history but wouldn't fit into the game if you ask me if they were to be implemented as the family itself. Otherwise we could have the Julii instead of the Romans with Caesar and Augustus as leaders. Guess it's preference but for historical correctness I play games like Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings (Paradox rocks).

I don't know a great deal about the Rome but didn't it have considerable power before and after the reign of the Julii? To put Rome in as the Julii would be short changing the other forms of government it had in its history and the other governments that brought it success. Austria was a world power exclusively under their rule and Spain and it's American territories was under Hapsburg control for the vast majority of the time that it was a world power.
 
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