[RD] What does free speech mean?

[aimeeandbeatles]

Discussion.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

An address by a person who is not a professional.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

An address by a person who is not a professional.

But what if the professional is doing it without being compensated?

 

[abradley]

What does free speech mean?

To make it as simple as I can 'I can say, write, ect anything I like as long as I am not advocating violence.'

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But what if the professional is doing it without being compensated?

On that occasion they are not technically a professional...maybe.

Interesting question...if someone is a professional <occupation X here> do they count as a professional whenever they do the tasks of that profession, even when they are doing it for free? What if they do it for free pretty much all the time, but did it for pay sometime in the past? Like, I have been paid for preparing meals...so does that make me, permanently, a "professional chef"?

Meanwhile, more seriously on the topic...

"Free speech" is one of those wildly shorthanded phrases that has had pretty much all actual meaning drained from it. The constitution of the US has language that prohibits (opposite of freeing) congress making particular laws, that is laws that "abridge the freedom of speech." It also contains language that prohibits (again the opposite of freeing) state governments from enacting or enforcing any law that infringes on that 'guarantee' made to US citizens.

To make it as simple as I can 'I can say, write, ect anything I like as long as I am not advocating violence.'

And here we have an example of where things start to slide into chaos. There is nothing providing the nation, or any state, the luxury of claiming an exception and enacting a law that treats "advocating violence" differently from any other speech. Of course, people generally consider that "free speech" as a nebulous term is going to have limits.

Don't we want that exception to be made?

Can I cause a panic by freely shouting fire in a crowded theater? What if there is an actual fire? What if the fire is three napkins in the bottom of a trash can and after I shout I put it out just by pouring my soda on it?

What about porn?

What about deceptive advertising?

On and on and on.

 

[Patine]

Discussion.

What does free speech mean?

To make it as simple as I can 'I can say, write, ect anything I like as long as I am not advocating violence.'

Free Speech is a very modern and recent concept in history, relatively speaking. The VAST majority of history passed with this ideal being unknown and alien to ALL societies, nations, and civilizations in the world. 18th Century Enlightenment philosophers and ideologues like Robert Blackwell in Great Britain, Henry Grattan in Ireland, Montesque in France, and Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson in the United States, among several others, coined and created the concept from practically wholecloth. It's purpose in design, creation, and demand was the right of citizens to speak, or to through published word, criticize and dissent from THE GOVERNMENT, without fear of criminal prosecution, being sued seditious libel, or summarily punished on charges such as the old Star Chamber Court of England utilized. It has not been altered or amended in an official, legal, and wording sense since to be expanded beyond that level, despite the assumption of a VERY large number of people in the First World.

 

[Zardnaar]

Free Speech is a very modern and recent concept in history, relatively speaking. The VAST majority of history passed with this ideal being unknown and alien to ALL societies, nations, and civilizations in the world. 18th Century Enlightenment philosophers and ideologues like Robert Blackwell in Great Britain, Henry Grattan in Ireland, Montesque in France, and Patrick Henry and Thomas Jefferson in the United States, among several others, coined and created the concept from practically wholecloth. It's purpose in design, creation, and demand was the right of citizens to speak, or to through published word, criticize and dissent from THE GOVERNMENT, without fear of criminal prosecution, being sued seditious libel, or summarily punished on charges such as the old Star Chamber Court of England utilized. It has not been altered or amended in an official, legal, and wording sense since to be expanded beyond that level, despite the assumption of a VERY large number of people in the First World.

More or less this. You used to be able to get the death penalty for insulting the king.

In France a guy slept with the Kings sisters and got the death penalty for that exact charge.

It's basically for political opinions.

 

[BCheek]

It means not retaliating against people because they said something you don't like and/or they hurt your fee-fees.

To make it as simple as I can 'I can say, write, ect anything I like as long as I am not advocating violence.'

Yeah that doesn't work anymore because words are violence now and everything I don't like is HATE speech.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Fee-fees

 

[BCheek]

Fee-fees

Feelings

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Why would you say fee-fees instead of feelings?

 

[Dekker]

Feelings

Curious your day 1 threads of choice to post in. "Welcome" to OT

 

[BCheek]

Curious your day 1 threads of choice to post in. "Welcome" to OT

Thanks, and what has you so curious?

 

[BCheek]

Why would you say fee-fees instead of feelings?

Because it sounds juvenile and I think getting bent out of shape because someone said something that hurt your feelings is weak and juvenile.

 

[Dekker]

Because it sounds juvenile and I think getting bent out of shape because someone said something that hurt your feelings is weak and juvenile.

So you act... juvenile and bent out of shape??

 

[BCheek]

So you act... juvenile and bent out of shape??

I don't think so, but I also don't consider adding emphasis to be something that's inherently juvenile. What I would consider juvenile is someone getting bent out of shape because they didn't like what was said, but alas I'm repeating myself.

 

[Dekker]

It means not retaliating against people because they said something you don't like and/or they hurt your fee-fees.

Yeah that doesn't work anymore because words are violence now and everything I don't like is HATE speech.

So what regular speech was unfairly labelled hate speech that has you so riled up about it?

 

[BCheek]

So what regular speech was unfairly labelled hate speech that has you so riled up about it?

I'm not sure what's given you the impression that I'm "riled up," but you have made it clear in an antagonistic sort of way that we have a difference of opinion on this subject.

Plenty of things have been mislabeled "hate" speech. Trump and the republicans spread "hate" for simply existing. Disagreeing that pre-pubescent children being put on hormones and given sex changes is hate. Misgendering someone is hate. Believing that biological men shouldn't be allowed in the women's washroom or in women's sports is hate. Wanting to secure the border or reduce immigration is hate. Mentioning black crime statistics is hate, etc. etc. Most things that aren't part of the mainstream democratic platform has been labeled hate by someone at some point and the standard response to any of this is the "no true Scotsman" or just a straight up denial.

 

[Dekker]

I'm not sure what's given you the impression that I'm "riled up," but you have made it clear in an antagonistic sort of way that we have a difference of opinion on this subject.

Plenty of things have been mislabeled "hate" speech. Trump and the republicans spread "hate" for simply existing. Disagreeing that pre-pubescent children being put on hormones and given sex changes is hate. Misgendering someone is hate. Believing that biological men shouldn't be allowed in the women's washroom or in women's sports is hate. Wanting to secure the border or reduce immigration is hate. Mentioning black crime statistics is hate, etc. etc. Most things that aren't part of the mainstream democratic platform has been labeled hate by someone at some point and the standard response to any of this is the "no true Scotsman" or just a straight up denial.

At least you're not trying to hide your viewpoints this time. I'm sure simply because they 'exist' Trump etc. Is accused of hate how very perceptive band nuanced of you. Also nice try trying to normalize transphobia.

 

[BCheek]

At least you're not trying to hide your viewpoints this time.

Lol, why would I need to hide them?

Also nice try trying to normalize transphobia.

It seems in my hatred I failed the purity test. What a pity.