What does true patriotism mean to you?

[Zarn]

Actually I am too

Never knew. I was a fan, since '91.

But who cares lets all go to the bar and lower our life expectancy!

I am a Roman Catholic, and I endorse this message.

 

[Quildavyr]

Being patriotic means to me;

*Raping greeks
*Killing armenians
*Invading germany
*Enslaving kurds
*Dividing belgium into 2 pieces

They are enough.

 

[Elrohir]

What does true patriotism mean to you?

Mostly, hating the French and bombing brown people.

I specified the dumbclucks. Putting a flag on your truck does not make you unpatriotic or patriotic. The dumbclucks that cover their trucks with flags and screech about "my country, right or wrong" (and conflate dissent with treason), that regard foreigners as subhuman and non-Christians as anti-civilization, and generally misrepresent us as shotgun-waving illiterates are not our patriots. Many foreigners seem to think that they are. I think most sane Americans are do not feel represented by that depiction. I suppose I shouldn't speak for everyone, but I find them embarrassing.

But...America is my country, right or wrong. It doesn't mean America can never do bad things (That'd be a meaningless phrase if it did - it'd just be "My country, right" ) or that we shouldn't try to fix the things that are wrong with it. Just that we should love and never give up on this great nation of ours, which truly is great, despite all of its shortcomings. And I think that's what patriotism really is.

 

[Bill3000]

But...America is my country, right or wrong. It doesn't mean America can never do bad things (That'd be a meaningless phrase if it did - it'd just be "My country, right" ) or that we shouldn't try to fix the things that are wrong with it. Just that we should love and never give up on this great nation of ours, which truly is great, despite all of its shortcomings. And I think that's what patriotism really is.

That's just mindless, because it does not allow for a truth-function if a) the nation was not truly great, or b) the shortcomings outweigh any particular greatness. It would require a denial of truth, and it's that kind of thinking that leads to denial of genocides. Simply being born in a country doesn't deserve patriotism - what the nation stands for is important.

What's important in American nationalism is its principles that the nation was founded on, not what it does. E plubus unum is fundamentally superior to "my country right or wrong" because it designates a fundamentally positive quality that defines what America is and ought to be.

 

[Elrohir]

That's just mindless, because it does not allow for a truth-function if a) the nation was not truly great, or b) the shortcomings outweigh any particular greatness. It would require a denial of truth, and it's that kind of thinking that leads to denial of genocides. Simply being born in a country doesn't deserve patriotism - what the nation stands for is important.

I disagree. Loving, and having a desire to improve your country, is not dependent upon that country achieving a concrete level of greatness.

What's important in American nationalism is its principles that the nation was founded on, not what it does. E plubus unum is fundamentally superior to "my country right or wrong" because it designates a fundamentally positive quality that defines what America is and ought to be.

But that's what this is saying. This says that the principles this country was founded on make this country worth working for, both when it is good and when it is bad. It's not about mindlessly supporting everything your country does - that seems contradictory, as the statement itself acknowledges that your country can indeed be wrong.

So you're saying you don't believe in that - but do you really? If America does something bad, are you going to disown it, or move away, even if it's just a little thing? Somehow, I doubt it. I think your problem is with the perception of blind patriotism that often comes with this statement, not with the statement itself. It's just unfortunate (And ironic) that you're too blinded to see that.

 

[emzie]

Patriotism, to me, means loving my country enough to know when we need to take a break, and see how things work out.

And if I see someone else, it's okay.

 

[LucyDuke]

But...America is my country, right or wrong. It doesn't mean America can never do bad things (That'd be a meaningless phrase if it did - it'd just be "My country, right" ) or that we shouldn't try to fix the things that are wrong with it. Just that we should love and never give up on this great nation of ours, which truly is great, despite all of its shortcomings. And I think that's what patriotism really is.

I agree that America kicks ass. I think it's more important to focus on our problems and try to solve them than it is to wail about how awesome we are.

 

[Godwynn]

I think patriotism is stupid, so I don't think I could give a "true" definition of patriotism.

I used to disagree without you. Now as I age and get wiser I believe you are correct.

 

[Elrohir]

I agree that America kicks ass. I think it's more important to focus on our problems and try to solve them than it is to wail about how awesome we are.

I'm pretty sure we can solve our problems, while chanting about how awesome we are. (This is America: no wailing allowed.)

 

[Masquerouge]

I used to disagree without you. Now as I age and get wiser I believe you are correct.

Gee, thanks! I don't remember disagreeing with you on that issue, however

Never knew. I was a fan, since '91.

It's hard being a Cowboys fan in California. But the main reason I am one is because of my year as an exchange student, in 1992-1993, in Texas. Probably the best thing I got out of that year
I still have the Aikman, Smith and Irvin jerseys!

 

[LucyDuke]

I'm pretty sure we can solve our problems, while chanting about how awesome we are. (This is America: no wailing allowed.)

We need to shut up and get stuff fixed.

 

[Zarn]

It's hard being a Cowboys fan in California. But the main reason I am one is because of my year as an exchange student, in 1992-1993, in Texas. Probably the best thing I got out of that year
I still have the Aikman, Smith and Irvin jerseys!

I was born on Long Island (and sometimes go back to visit), and I live near Philly (in New Jersey). It ain't easy over here, so I make the opposing fans uncomfortable.

 

[cubsfan6506]

I used to disagree without you. Now as I age and get wiser I believe you are correct.

Ever since I've been 12 I've agreed with you.

 

[Red Door]

Oh Goodness. The only acceptable course of action in that situation is to put on your # 12 Roger Staubach Dallas Cowboys jersey and boo both playing teams. Since the Dallas Cowboys are America's Team (that's why their stadium has a hole in it, so God can watch them since God blesses America ), all God-Fearing and truly patriotic Americans can always safely rally around the Cowboys.

Actually I am too

Actually, I'm a Cowboys fan.

You three are real sick. Real, real sick. True Americans root for the Washington Redskins.

And Cleo, you're sick too. Skyrat and Cowgirl fans hate America.

 

[Berzerker]

To me, patriotism does not equal "love of country." I love America, because I love the values upon which it's founded, and the struggles it has gone through to live up to them. I want the best for it, and I get furious when those values are compromised.

Cleo

I'll go with that

The last refuge of a scoundrel

Its the first, I rarely see the "why do you hate America" argument after a lengthy sound bite free debate exploring the ramifications of a knee jerk foreign policy.

VRWC

What is wrong with "My country, right or wrong"? Yeah, we may make mistakes, but if push comes to shove you can bet I'll still stick up for the US over, say, random Godless commie heathens.

So if you have an argument with some foreigner patriotism obliges me to take your side even when you are wrong?

 

[bhsup]

VRWC

So if you have an argument with some foreigner patriotism obliges me to take your side even when you are wrong?

No, of course not.

But let us say we somehow commit a horrible faux pas and piss off Mexico sooooo bad that they send their glorious and mighty army to invade us. Now we were in the wrong initially, that is not in dispute. Because of that, should we lay over and wait for their army to conquer our land? Hell no.

 

[Berzerker]

If America does something bad, are you going to disown it, or move away, even if it's just a little thing?

Of course not, I wanna kick the lying scum out of office. But if the election dont go my way, I'm still not obliged to think and say the lying scum are right.

 

[Berzerker]

No, of course not.

But let us say we somehow commit a horrible faux pas and piss off Mexico sooooo bad that they send their glorious and mighty army to invade us. Now we were in the wrong initially, that is not in dispute. Because of that, should we lay over and wait for their army to conquer our land? Hell no.

Well obviously if you (the state) lie and piss off Mexicans and they come here to kill me because of what you did, I'm gonna defend myself. But that dont mean you (the state) are off the hook. The problem is we keep electing these lying scumbags and then wonder why people are attacking us.

 

[zulu9812]

It always struck me as curious that some people will lavish love and praise on whomever happens to be their leader at the time, even if that person stands completely against the established values of that nation.

 

[bhsup]

I said nothing about the 'state' at all. Heck, it could be a bunch of Arizonians spontaneously getting together to have a big party celebrating something that pisses off Mexico so bad they declare war. The country is far, far more than the government. It is the land and the people as well.