What dynasty should China's leader be from in Civ VII?

[FishFishFish]

I avoided the time periods where China was fragmented so vote other if you want a leader from those periods.

 

[Uncle Paul]

I'd love to see Chiang Kai-shek, a hero who fought against communism, but I know he's too controversial to ever make it in. Taizong would be a good choice, as would maybe some Ming emperor. Please, not Mao Tse-tung again. (I doubt he will be, though, the voiced leaderheads are too much work to make an extra Chinese one, and Mao can't be in a game in China).
The Yuan would be a horrible choice, since the Mongols are already their own civ.
I'd love to see a separate Manchurian civ, instead of China being led by a Manchu emperor.

 

[Taizong4Civ7]

The Taizong Emperor of the Great Tang, of course.

 

[Taizong4Civ7]

Also Civ 6 Qin is exactly what Sui Wendi should play like (top 5 Chinese leaders candidate right there btw)

 

[pineappledan]

I forever hold out hope that the Jurchens/Manchu/Qing might get added as a standalone civ, separate from "China".

Then, as a counterpoint, what could be more Han Chinese than the dynasty that gives the ethnicity its name?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

When I think of China I think of the Han Dynasty, so I voted for them. Plus we've surprisingly never had a leader from that one yet.

 

[Uncle Paul]

I forever hold out hope that the Jurchens/Manchu/Qing might get added as a standalone civ, separate from "China".

Then, as a counterpoint, what could be more Han Chinese than the dynasty that gives the ethnicity its name?

Pretty sure China comes from Qin, not Qing.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

"China" is the name of the state, probably from Qin, whereas China's predominant ethnic group are the Han. I think that's what Dan meant.

 

[ShadowWarrior]

The Yellow Emperor who battled Chi You and emerged as the winner, thus setting the identify for Chinese civilization, should receive at least some consideration. Also, Song dynasty founder is another great choice.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

1. Han. I'd say Liu Bang
2. Tang. I'd say Tang Taizong
3. Ming. no doubt Ming Yongle (Seven Expeditions)
Qin Shihuang already had his place as Leader of China. and in 6 with anachronistic UU. the Crouchingtiger (Hu Dun Pao, the term that refers both to a kind of mangonel (traction trebuchet), and later one-man portable cannon introduced in Song era but earned fame in Ming.
Also Hu Dun Pao's entry is contradicting to its in game capabilities. Civilopedia cited that Hu Dun Pao outreached archery of any kind and was comparable to other bigger fieldguns as attested in Imjin War (Japanese invasion of Korea in 16th Century), in which Ming army deployed ones against Japanese alongside Fire Carts (Hwacha MLRS. in Civ6 Korean UU, in Humankind, Ming UU)

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The Yellow Emperor who battled Chi You and emerged as the winner, thus setting the identify for Chinese civilization, should receive at least some consideration. Also, Song dynasty founder is another great choice.

I never like Song dynasty founder. he's a kind of usurper, professional Coup d'Etat instigator. and Song dynasty is one such lackluster because Song empire failed to unite anyone else sharing Han cultures under single banner.
Only a couple of good things came out of them
1. Bao Qingtian the Just.
2. Gunpowder weaponizations (The Book of Fire Dragon, and this included how the first functional cannons came to be)
3. Waterwheel clock tower of Kaifeng (The same city where Justice Bao earned his fame).

Big bad things.
Yue Fei, Imperial Champion who would almost subdued a rival empire up north, was betrayed by his own master, but Qin Hui and Wang Min was blamed for his demise rather than an inept (and possibly corrupt) emperor Song Gaozong (Not a good leader choice if you ask me).

Yue Fei - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ShadowWarrior]

I never like Song dynasty founder. he's a kind of usurper, professional Coup d'Etat instigator. and Song dynasty is one such lackluster because Song empire failed to unite anyone else sharing Han cultures under single banner.
Only a couple of good things came out of them
1. Bao Qingtian the Just.
2. Gunpowder weaponizations (The Book of Fire Dragon, and this included how the first functional cannons came to be)
3. Waterwheel clock tower of Kaifeng (The same city where Justice Bao earned his fame).

Big bad things.
Yue Fei, Imperial Champion who would almost subdued a rival empire up north, was betrayed by his own master, but Qin Hui and Wang Min was blamed for his demise rather than an inept (and possibly corrupt) emperor Song Gaozong (Not a good leader choice if you ask me).

Yue Fei - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your view is very popular among a lot of historians and I can understand where you are coming from. I myself love the Song dynasty. This is the dynasty in which the Chinese people actually lived a decent life. All signs of modernization were emerging during the Song period, including industrialization. This is also the dynasty where the Chinese political elites were pushing the envelop in developing ideas that sounded like something of a modern democracy. Lets not forget the crazy Song dynasty version machine guns. These are bows capable of continuously shooting arrows nonstop and gave the Mongols endless headaches. The mighty Mongols had to conquer the rest of the world first before they finally have resources to focus their attention on Song China. There are other examples of scientific accomplishments that were attained under Song dynasty that are too numerous to list, and that's just science. Culture, commerce, religions all flourished during this time. Song dynasty China's economy reached a GDP level that would not be replicated again until the Qing dynasty, and that's many centuries later.
There is a tendency to evaluate dynasties based on its imperial expansion and military might. By that metric, Song dynasty is absolutely pathetic. But when you evaluate rulers based on how well people lived, I think Song dynasty is at the top of all Chinese dynasties.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ What is Song policy regarding to statecraft? Why didn't they chose to reclaim Kaifeng and beat other empires around them who share the same Han cultures? by then there were 'other China Empires' independent from each othe while in Qin, Han, Yuan, Ming and even Qing, there is only one defenite 'Zhong guo' and outside Barbarians with clear distinctions.

 

[ShadowWarrior]

^ What is Song policy regarding to statecraft? Why didn't they chose to reclaim Kaifeng and beat other empires around them who share the same Han cultures? by then there were 'other China Empires' independent from each othe while in Qin, Han, Yuan, Ming and even Qing, there is only one defenite 'Zhong guo' and outside Barbarians with clear distinctions.

To me personally, the people who lived during the Song period had a nice life. That's more important than whether or not there's one "Zhong Guo". The only regret I have about the Song is that it was unable to preserve itself against the Mongolian invaders. I don't want to sound like a racist, but the Mongols ruined China, and I hate the Mongolian Yuan dynasty for that. I don't consider Yuan a Chinese dynasty at all, although many Chinese can't wait to claim the Yuan as Chinese because then they can take credit for China having one of the largest territory in world history. I think that's cheap and pathetic.

P.S: I have no grudge against modern day Mongolians though. I just dislike the Mongolians during the Genghis Khan's time. They were the Nazi of the 13th century.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

P.S: I have no grudge against modern day Mongolians though. I just dislike the Mongolians during the Genghis Khan's time. They were the Nazi of the 13th century.

Did 'Han Chinese' took Mongolians a clear definitions of what 'Barbarians' (野郎) as 'dangerous people' and portrayed other 'outsiders' as being as bad as Mongols?
What's your view with Jurchen/Manchu people? are 'Manchurians' and 'Jurchens' the same? were they also more of Khanate and less of sublime empire?
And what about Song Chinese 'nice life' ? Chinese had developed most of their techs by this era and were less warlike than those in other eras? don't forget there were Jin Empires and other 'Chinese Empires' that coexists with Song. (and might have developed out of smaller fragmented kingdoms in the 'Ten Dynasty Five Empires' era that preceeds Song)