What European country is the closest to winning today ?

[nfw]

Could say Vatican City won with AP Cheese. There's no "vote pope as winner" victory in real life, but most of Europe was dominated by catholicism, with the pope's political power exceeding kings.

Maybe western Europe, but Orthodox Christianity is dominate in most of the former Roman empire and Russia.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Maybe western Europe, but Orthodox Christianity is dominate in most of the former Roman empire and Russia.

That's the beauty of the AP cheese. It doesn't have to be the dominant religion, as long as it is represented...in fact it's better if it is just barely represented.

 

[yturk39]

Let's see some civics changes, and shake things up. Maybe that will make for a more clear winner.

If England starts a Golden Age by using up the royal baby that would allow them to switch back and forth between Monarchy and Police State without any lost productivity. They could use the bonus hammers and gold for espionage points and fighting terror. Their master, America, would appreciate that.


America: "We would like you to research..."

England: "Yes?"

America: "Terrorist Husbandry."

England: "We'll switch right away!"

 

[CivNoobie]

I'd say Britain wins the cultural victory by generating GA while Italy wins it by constructing wonders.
Germany wins the diplomatic (when you give all the money, every1 likes you)
Russia wins the time victory....I kinda see most of europe will fall into the one world govt system.
If Russia goes communist, then it wins space. If not, I see France winning this.
As for domination/conquest it's K-A-Z-A-K-H-S-T-A-N

 

[gps]

Germany wins the diplomatic (when you give all the money, every1 likes you)

Wrong. This is where Civ totally messed it up. The Greek get all our money, but they hate us nevertheless...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ntiment-grows/2012/02/10/gIQASbZP4Q_blog.html

 

[Phate]

Berlin, Hamburg and Munich are all legendary.

How can they be legendary when they were founded in the medieval era

That's some serious culture per turn!

 

[drewisfat]

Well, Spain, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Rumania were vassals of Nazi Germany. Depending on how you look at it, Italy was either a vassal, ally, or permanent ally of the Nazis. Of course, they were defeated with the help of the US, who is out of Europe.

They came close in 1945, but were below the domination limit. (Vassaled much of E. Europe.) But they've lost ground since.

While true, the British Empire never had much control of continental Europe. And the OP was asking about the European Map, not world.

Spain wasn't a vassal, they weren't even allied. They were preoccupied. Romania was an ally (At the "peak"). The area Germany directly controlled wasn't that big. It was scary when you lumped it with it's vassals and allies, but in civ terms allies not count and vassals only half count. It wouldn't have quite made the dom even if they all counted fully.

Mongolian empire was close to British empire in size, and it was much earlier. By percentage of civilized land and by pop it was greater. Ofc OP based on euro map anyways.


I don't know how you guys claim Italy beats France in a culture war. France is known for strong cultural impacts on everything from food, language, government, entertainment, literature, fashion, art. Italy is known mostly for food and art.

I think you are obsessing too much about civ's 3 legendary cities (the city layout of civ makes any cultural representation much different). Modern name recognition isn't a good judge of cultural importance. Venice, while an important city, is famous in popular opinion by 90% of the world as "that water city, thats sinking!! With the gondolas!" Florence is also listed first in textbooks as the Renaissance city with orange roofs (although most italian cities were involved in the Renaissance and had orange roofs). Florence might be more famous than Milan for instance, but Milan is a more important city.

Even if you are insistent on looking at culture through civ's framework, considering that France has three world wonders in two different cities. Italy doesn't have any!

Greece deserves more of a consideration in the culture category as well.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I'd say Britain wins the cultural victory by generating GA while Italy wins it by constructing wonders.

Italy has triggered 2 golden ages, already.
Can't say Britain has gotten that many. They got one, tops. No offence to you, British people. Look at the bright side: That means your future GAs will be oh-so-very cheap!

Even if you are insistent on looking at culture through civ's framework, considering that France has three world wonders in two different cities. Italy doesn't have any!

Stones stack culture, don't you know? And... Sistine Chapel? Apostolic Palace?
France is a lot more centralized than Italy. So... if we're talking Legendary Cities, I'd put Italy on top. City-states ft-culture-w!

 

[drewisfat]

Last I checked Sistine Chapel and Apostolic Palace are in Vatican City

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Yeah... Vatican city state... of the Italian peninsula...
Strictly, you're correct! Complacently, I am

 

[Seraiel]

I'm American, but make no claim to president shrub. And I live in a metropolis of half a million people, that in civ terms is that city you found for no reason other than to secure horses then when horses are obsolete you realize it is on the most forlorn terrain on the map. The high point of culture here is the movie theater with stadium seating and cloth upholstery.

That said, I think Rome qualifies for legendary culture level influence through the Catholic church if nothing else. As for 'metropoles with more than a million inhabitants' I could name at least a dozen US cities with way more than a million inhabitants that are absolutely devoid of any cultural significance whatsoever. So population isn't necessarily the main point.

Also not a main point but perhaps indicative...there's a Paris casino in Las Vegas, and Caeser's Palace, New York New York, and the Venitian...but AFAIK there isn't a line of developers signing up to build 'The Hamburg'.

I give Germany Berlin because it's clearly a city of world significance, and Munich for the Oktoberfest among other things...but you'd get better name recognition with Nuremberg or Bonn than Hamburg, and I wouldn't call any of them influential.

By the way, I'm not trying to put down anyone's country...just saying that a claim of 'legendary culture' needs to be supported by more than local familiarity.

You have forgotten the guidelines for cultural victories, and those are, that at least 1 city can be bombed to legendary without problems. Ok, that's not Hamburg specific, but it could hit Hamburg, because the city actually works quite a number of Artist-Specailists and has quite a lot Culture-producing buildings actually like various tons of Theaters i. e.

Thinking that Hamburg is the GP-Farm of Germany is supported by this list of favourite persons that either came from Hamburg or lived there for a longer time.

Hrmmmm... No, they are not... (and before you ask, I am not American, and am extremely well travelled). Outide of Europe, two of these are. Berlin (which people will tell you is 'where the wall fell'), and Munich (For Octoberfest, 'bayern munich' (meaning the football team)) and nothing else.

Hamburg... Not a chance. And it is not clear to me what type of counting one has to use to make it the biggest 'overseas?' harbour in Europe. It is number 3 in Europe by just about every listing I can think of (behind Rotterdam and Antwerp), which btw does not make it into the top 10 in the world... By your logic, I guess the cities with the top 10 ports in the world MUST be legendary...These include Busan and Ningbo!

See above, and I named Hamburg because it's the 2nd biggest city of Germany and didn't know which to choose as third. Hamburg probably is the GP-Farm and yes, the argument with the harbour was stupid.

But beeing known outside of Germany does not mean it does produce enough culture to get legendary status. If the Oktoberfest actally "produces" anything then it's mostly drunk people and garbage - and not necessarily culture. Having another Blasmusik-Band play the "Bayerischer Defiliermarsch" or the "Zillertaler Hochzeitsmarsch" for the 72.397 time does not count as "producing culture" - at least in my books. A big harbour produces commerce, not culture. And if you seriously think that Hilter's "Mein Kampf"-pamphlet and his maniac ideas added anything to German or general culture - then please think again...
If there are cities in Germany that today actually produce a significant, above average output of culture it might be Babelsberg (Filmstudio), or Mainz (TV-Studios). And the rest goes down in mainstream minor artist stuff where Germany today sure is not ahead of any of the other European countries. There are other countries that have bigger and more successfull film studios (London!, Prague), there are other nations that have their TV- and Radio-Stations, painters, writers, musicians as well...
And that's me as a fellow-German speaking.

You don't count the Oktoberfest, which is a great fiest of german beer-culture, but you count the that TV offers? Even if I followed your arguments, there are more TV-Studios in Hamburg and Munich than in Mainz or Nuremberg, and regarding german bear.

Also, Commerce = Culture via the Slider if you didn't know, and Hamburg + Berlin afaik have a Jewish Synagoge, an Islamic Moshee, and a Christian Cathedral, so if talking about close, those cities actually could produce enough Culture to get to Legendary really fast.

You also misunderstood my argument about Hitler, completely, which was, that he constructed quite a lot of culture giving buildings there, because he wanted to make it the capital of the world, but yes, many didn't make it and most got razed by Russians and Americans. Still, what's said above counts.

 

[kensington888]

i am enjoying the answers.it would be great if somebody actually sat and worked out how much culture each city had going by dates cultural buldings were built.i know that it wouldnt be 100% accurate but it would be interesting.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

i am enjoying the answers.it would be great if somebody actually sat and worked out how much culture each city had going by dates cultural buldings were built.i know that it wouldnt be 100% accurate but it would be interesting.

It would be great, but not definitive. You'd still be open to indisputable but unsupportable statements like 'Germany could culture bomb Hamburg with great artists any minute and make it one of the great culture centers on the planet'. Which also might be about to happen in Mercia, or Pau, or Blackburn, or Palmdale California for that matter.

Originally Posted by CivNoobie
Germany wins the diplomatic (when you give all the money, every1 likes you)

You apparently missed the basic principle of 'the haves and the have-nots'...as a nation or an individual, if you want to be loved, be broke.

 

[gps]

You don't count the Oktoberfest, which is a great fiest of german beer-culture,

Beer-culture??? It's a great feast of mass consuption of the cheapest mass produced "Plörre" available. If you want to have beer-culture you've got to go to some of the small family-owned breweries that might still be around somewhere in the "bayerische Wald" [bavarian forrest]...
Also I can't remember the Oktoberfest beeing available as a national or world wonder or even as a simple city improvement, while there are broadcast towers in the game.

Also, Commerce = Culture via the Slider if you didn't know, and Hamburg + Berlin afaik have a Jewish Synagoge, an Islamic Moshee, and a Christian Cathedral, so if talking about close, those cities actually could produce enough Culture to get to Legendary really fast.

So does any other European City, I am pretty sure there are mosques and synagogues as well in London, Paris, Moscow, Prague, Warsaw, Budapest - and wherever you-name-it. And as long as there is a so called "bürgerlich-konservative" [conservative] Gouvernement with the "Wachstum, Wachstum über alles"-Mantra [growth, growth above everything], there will never ever be a slider in Germany set to 100% Culture. Never. Ever.

 

[rah]

You can't really go on name recognition.
If you did.....
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
And you could argue that these three cities have had the most cultural impact on the world in the last 50 years.

But I wouldn't.

 

[JoeyB98]

You have forgotten the guidelines for cultural victories, and those are, that at least 1 city can be bombed to legendary without problems. Ok, that's not Hamburg specific, but it could hit Hamburg, because the city actually works quite a number of Artist-Specailists and has quite a lot Culture-producing buildings actually like various tons of Theaters i. e.

Thinking that Hamburg is the GP-Farm of Germany is supported by this list of favourite persons that either came from Hamburg or lived there for a longer time.



See above, and I named Hamburg because it's the 2nd biggest city of Germany and didn't know which to choose as third. Hamburg probably is the GP-Farm and yes, the argument with the harbour was stupid.



You don't count the Oktoberfest, which is a great fiest of german beer-culture, but you count the that TV offers? Even if I followed your arguments, there are more TV-Studios in Hamburg and Munich than in Mainz or Nuremberg, and regarding german bear.

Also, Commerce = Culture via the Slider if you didn't know, and Hamburg + Berlin afaik have a Jewish Synagoge, an Islamic Moshee, and a Christian Cathedral, so if talking about close, those cities actually could produce enough Culture to get to Legendary really fast.

You also misunderstood my argument about Hitler, completely, which was, that he constructed quite a lot of culture giving buildings there, because he wanted to make it the capital of the world, but yes, many didn't make it and most got razed by Russians and Americans. Still, what's said above counts.

Dude, you could say most of that about almost any country in the world. Should we argue Ireland? They get fairly drunk too, they must be the most cultural!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You can't really go on name recognition.
If you did.....
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
And you could argue that these three cities have had the most cultural impact on the world in the last 50 years.

But I wouldn't.

If you concede that 'impact' is not necessarily positive you could probably argue this pretty well actually...in the case of LA in particular.

I also think you might be over-estimating the world-wide name recognition for Chicago. I suspect 'name three cities in the US' would get you New York, Washington, and Hollywood in most parts of the world if it got you three at all.

 

[rah]

Whenever I traveled abroad and said I was from Chicago, they'd always either say "Micheal. Jordan" or "bang, bang, bang" Never once did anyone look at me confused as if they weren't familiar with it. You'd be surprised with the name recognition.

And yes, I said nothing about positive impact. But that could be said about a lot of "cultural" impact.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Whenever I traveled abroad and said I was from Chicago, they'd always either say "Micheal. Jordan" or "bang, bang, bang" Never once did anyone look at me confused as if they weren't familiar with it. You'd be surprised with the name recognition.

And yes, I said nothing about positive impact. But that could be said about a lot of "cultural" impact.

There's a difference between recognition and influence. People recognize it when you answer 'where are you from', but it isn't in their face on a regular basis. There are probably not many places in the world where Washington isn't thrown in their faces fairly regularly. That's why 'name a US city' will get you 'Washington' at least nine times out of ten (civ terms, the cultural impact of having the palace). If you don't get Washington you will probably get New York, again because it gets thrown in front of most people on a more regular basis (notice that in Tiananmen Square they built an image of the Statue of Liberty rather than the Shedd Aquarium).

 

[rah]

Yes there is a difference. I did mention recognition in my original post.
And since I'm from Chicago, I always weight it higher then Washington.