What exactly is so wrong with communism?

If you dismiss anything he might have to say without actually knowing what it is, you are obviously the one with the problem.

Lets just say that I woud double check every thing he says.
I mean the cuban part was a clear manipulation by the cuban state and Moore apparently had no problem with it.

See what I mean?

I have yet to find a single convincing argument as to how the socialist state will "wither away", thats why I say communism is an illusion.

His ambition was obviosly bigger than justify something what hasnt existed.

Oh no, the socialist state was very real and brutal.
 
Lets just say that I woud double check every thing he says.
That's quite a difference from your first statement. Just about everybody with a vested interest has double checked what he had to say, as they have with every single other documentary he has produced. Don't you think he knows that by now?

http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/bill-moyers-journal-cigna-chief-admit

BILL MOYERS: You were also involved in the campaign by the industry to discredit Michael Moore and his film "Sicko" in 2007. In that film Moore went to several countries around the world, and reported that their health care system was better than our health care system, in particular, Canada and England. [..]

So what did you think when you saw that film?

WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.

BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?

WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore

I mean the cuban part was a clear manipulation by cuban state and Moore apparently had no problem with it.

Are you now claiming you actually watched it? Or are you just parroting something you found on some reactionary website or propaganda generated by the medical industry? Got a source we won't laugh at as you did with even the mention of Sicko?
 
i see communism as a failed attempt to stop people from committing the seven deadly sins especially greed
 
And the US system has? Or do we take the approach to simply allow corruption to flourish?
 
The French are apparently not oppressed nearly as much as we are. And because democracy is practiced instead of preached, the political power in that country is in the hands of the common people instead of the aristocracy as it is in this country. They have great benefits as a result. They are always protesting over this or that. They have 35 hour work weeks and 5 weeks of vacation every year.They can actually effect change because the government fears them and listens to their complaints as a result.

I know, a lot of time, it seems they do more protesting than actual work.
 
And the US system has? Or do we take the approach to simply allow corruption to flourish?

capitalism may be unfair and sometimes dangerous but it is completely natural and works with human nature unlike communism which works against human nature and tries to control it
 
That's quite a difference from your first statement. And guess what? Everybody has double checked what he had to say.

http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/bill-moyers-journal-cigna-chief-admit

Nice but its irrelevant since that website is talking about the American system.
Good luck finding an independent source about the cuban healthcare system.

Of course it was. Because you say so.

Use your common sense, thats all

And are you now claiming you actually watched it? Or are you just parroting something you found on some reactionary website or propaganda generated by the medical industry?

Actually I did see it.
By the way... "reactionary" what an absurd term :crazyeye:
 
capitalism may be unfair and sometimes dangerous but it is completely natural and works with human nature unlike communism which works against human nature and tries to control it
So you take the holistic approach to government? Hmmm.

Nice but its irrelevant since that website is talking about the American system.:
So you don't object to anything he might have said about the American system? Just the Cuban system?

Good luck finding an independent source about the cuban healthcare system.

You mean like the Harvard Public Health Review, for instance?

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/review/review_summer_02/txt677cuba.html

Perhaps best known for vintage cars, cigars, and communists, Cuba is also distinguished by something far more enticing to the students and staff of the Harvard School of Public Health--its health care system. The Cuban government assumes full fiscal and administrative responsibility for the health care needs of all its citizens, providing free preventive, curative, and rehabilitation services. This National Health System, as it's called, is an international success story and, for the last three years, a small group from the School has made its way down to this sunny island nation to learn more about what makes it tick. "It's good for people to see another system," says Richard Cash, senior lecturer in the School's Department of Population and International Health. "Seeing for yourself is far more important and to see what Cuba does with limited resources and to contrast it with our system and other systems is valuable. Everyone that has gone to Cuba has come away clearly educated by the process."

This March, Cash was joined in this educational experience by 12 MPH students. Roberta Gianfortoni, director for professional education at the School, has organized the trip since its inception and coordinated this year's excursion with Medical Education in Cooperation with Cuba (MEDICC), a non-profit organization that specializes in offering elective experiences in Cuba to US and Canadian students in the health and medical sciences. The School's contingent traveled under a special license granted to the MEDICC. Over an eight-day stay in the Cuban capital of Havana, the group visited institutions such as the Ministry of Public Health, maternity hospitals, schools of medicine and public health, AIDS sanatoria, and community health clinics. "The objective is to look at an alternative system," says Gianfortoni. "It's an interesting model to study. Our students are going to go to both developed and underdeveloped countries so it's interesting to consider how Cuba's concepts and methods can translate to other parts of the world."

Socio-economic development is typically measured by health indicators such as infant mortality and life expectancy at birth. However, in Cuba, a nation beset by severely limited resources and political tensions both internal and external, these health markers are essentially the same as those in the United States and other parts of the industrialized world. Cuba also boasts the highest rate of public health service in Latin America and has one of the highest physician-to-population ratios in the world. Alone remarkable for a developing country, these feats are even more extraordinary considering the context of a US embargo that's been in effect since 1961. Because its access to traditional sources of financing is seriously hindered by the sanctions, which until rec- ently included all food and medicine, Cuba has received little foreign and humanitarian aid to maintain the vitality of its national programs. And herein lies the paradox of Cuba's health care system: because Cuba has so few resources, prevention has become the only affordable means of keeping its population healthy.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. You are going to have a very difficult time trying to show there is much wrong with the Cuban public health system given what few resources they actually have.

Use you common sense, thats all.
I do. I try to at least google a few times before inserting my foot into my mouth. How about you?

Actually I did see it.
I'm actually surprised given that your refutation of it has been basically futile so far. Perhaps you should watch it again.

By the way... "reactionary" what an absurd term :crazyeye:
It certainly seems to accurately describe your own hatred and fear of Cuba, as well as Michael Moore, and even socialism and communism in general. Would you prefer the term "ultra-conservative"?
 
i see communism as a failed attempt to stop people from committing the seven deadly sins especially greed

I believe you are right, socialism is the political equivalent of putting an entire country in prison so it wont commit a crime :lol:
 
So you don't object to anything he might have said about the American system? Just the Cuban system?

Im saying you can check what he says about the American system but you cant do that with the Cuban healthcare system

You mean like the Harvard Public Health Review, for instance?

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/review/review_summer_02/txt677cuba.html

I already told you, all the figures from the cuban healthcare system come directly from the government, that article just assumes that those figures are correct.

One thing I didnt know though was that the students in Cuba "salsa more" :lol:

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Indeed

given what few resources they actually have.

Socialist economies tend to do that, even though Cuba trades with China, Mexico, Spain and a dozen countries more.

I do. I try to google a few times before inserting my foot into my mouth. How about you?

:rolleyes:

I'm actually surprised given that your refutation of it has been basically futile so far.

Refutation? I didnt know I had to dissect the entire documentary to you.

It certainly seems to accurately describe your own hatred and fear of Cuba as well as Michael Moore.

Pity would be more accurate ;)

and even socialism and communism in general.

I pesonally dislike socialism as a brutal and laughable system

Would you prefer the term "ultra-conservative"?

Whatever Makes You Happy :goodjob:
 
I already told you, all the figures from the cuban healthcare system come directly from the government, that article just assumes that those figures are correct.
So they are lying and all the acknowledged authorities are too stupid or brainwashed to figure out this conspiracy?

And no, I believe that's the first time you have mentioned that particular 'theory'.

Refutation? I didnt know I had to dissect the entire documentary to you.
So far, all you have been able to come up with is "them commies are obviously lying to make us look bad by providing essentially the same level of healthcare for peanuts instead of 1/7th of our total GNP". Got a source?

Pity would be more accurate.
This isn't pity:

Communism is an illusion invented by Marx to justify the dictatorship of the proletariat.

I pesonally dislike socialism as a brutal and laughable system.

This is unmitigated ultra-right-wing rhetoric based on hatred and fear.
 
It denies me my fundamental freedom to oppress the proletarian masses.
 
So they are lying and all the acknowledged authorities are too stupid or brainwashed to figure out this conspiracy?

Centralized state power tends to regulate information quite effectively

And no, I believe that's the first time you have mentioned that particular 'theory'.

I though I had implied it

So far, all you have been able to come up with is "them commies are obviously lying

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2474886

http://www.miscelaneasdecuba.net/media/pdf/Article-Hirschfeld-Press.pdf


This is unmitigated ultra-right-wing rhetoric based on hatred and fear.

Left-wing, Right-wing.... false paradigms.

I say marxism is a reaction to liberty and individual rights.

Oh and I already told you, its not hatred certainly not fear, only pity for the cuban people that must live like slaves of the socialist state.
 
Well, first of all it tramples on an essential human liberty, the right to retain the fruits of one's labor. While the communists will try to spin this as being a part of their system, it isn't.

Second, the system doesn't actually work unless all members are willing to put effort into it and sacrifice one's ambition. Aside from perhaps the Amish and a few hippies in the Pacific Northwest, people typically have more drive to accomplish things than that.

amadeus said it best.
 
Well, first of all it tramples on an essential human liberty, the right to retain the fruits of one's labor. While the communists will try to spin this as being a part of their system, it isn't.

This is a complete lie. Capitalism is about taking the fruits of someone else's labor, socialism is about keeping the fruits of one's own labor, and claims that right as one of its most basic fundamentals.
 
Paris Commune? Nicaragua? Chile? Some Spanish cities during the Civil War?

Now Nicaragua and Chile were communists? You people need to make up your minds! ;)

Edit: As for the Spanish cities, they were actually anarchist, and the anarchist experience was destroyed not by Franco's fascists, but rather by communists following Moscow.
 
Cheezy the Wiz said:
This is a complete lie. Capitalism is about taking the fruits of someone else's labor, socialism is about keeping the fruits of one's own labor, and claims that right as one of its most basic fundamentals.

... they haven't for the most part been successful at it.
 
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