What If God Was Real And Manifested Proving It?

Hygro said:
The joke is there’s no redemption for bad past speech from the left.

Yes it’s a problem. But unfortunately, it usually bears out in the favor of the judgers.
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It's like with survivorship bias. Forgiveness/reconciliation isn't a lowest common denominator behavior.
 
Hygro said:
It’s a default human perspective. Some kind of quasi transference of experiencing the significance of one’s existence in the face of personal and forgone death.
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Agreed. It's also egotistical, meaning "I am now living in the most important time, ever!" Like even if someone accepted "The End Times" are gonna come at some point, the idea that "they're gonna come 100 years after I am dead" is a foreign concept, as you alluded to.

If you believe such a momentous event is going to happen at all, then you probably don't have the mental ability (I'm trying to be kind here & picking the nicest phrasing I can) to also believe that it's not going to happen in my lifetime. No one who believes in Revelation! OMG! (pun) thinks it's going to happen after they are dead & they are simply living in a boring, transitory period that just hits Skip Turn until we get to the interesting parts.
 
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Moff Jerjerrod said:
Even Paul the Apostle believe that but then realized later the Apocalypse (i.e. global level apocalypse) did not happen yet. Those that lived in those days thought Jesus would come back soon as in within their lifetimes, but a day to the Lord is as a thousand years to man and a thousand years to man is as a day to the Lord. :)

Since those times though man has been debating when did the apocalypse happen, but it hasn't happened yet because we're all confusing apocalyptic events limited to a local area with The Apocalypse which will take place on a global level and in which none shall escape.
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So in other words, not for at least half a billion years, when Earth gets serious about being uninhabitable by anything mammalian due to the Sun beginning its expansion to its red giant phase, and assuming that we've been too stupid to get off while we could. Assuming we're not already extinct for some other reason.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
So in other words, not for at least half a billion years, when Earth gets serious about being uninhabitable by anything mammalian due to the Sun beginning its expansion to its red giant phase, and assuming that we've been too stupid to get off while we could. Assuming we're not already extinct for some other reason.
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Well hopefully in half a billion years we will discover a way to get off this planet and find another home. Assuming humanity doesn't do something terrible to end it all first.

Cutlass said:
There have been too many times when men have decided the End of Times is Upon Us. I have no faith in that.
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Agreed with the part that people have been both saying the end is near and also denying it for ages now. We all know though, like everything in life, that one day everything will come to an end. That's not necessarily a bad thing because with every ending there is a beginning.
 
Birdjaguar said:
What we do know is that
  • Reasoned thought and observation continue to expand what we know about the observable universe
  • "Religious" experiences continue to overwhelm many people into believing that the observable universe is not all there is to existence
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Science can also cause us to believe "that the observable universe is not all there is to existence" because our human senses evolved to help us avoid dying, bang and keep our kids alive long enough for them to do the same (in a specific environment, just like any other species) not understand the mysteries of the universe.

The fact that we cannot understand what is over our heads doesn't imply a creator.

The fact that we can understand as much as we can is pretty impressive
 
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Valka D'Ur said:
So in other words, not for at least half a billion years, when Earth gets serious about being uninhabitable by anything mammalian due to the Sun beginning its expansion to its red giant phase, and assuming that we've been too stupid to get off while we could. Assuming we're not already extinct for some other reason.
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Even if there is a sapient being left on the planet by then. That wan't be "we".
You wouldn't call a lemur a human, would you? And humans will obviously use genetics in the future, and they certainly won't be homo-sapiens. Genetic
 
banzay13 said:
Even if there is a sapient being left on the planet by then. That wan't be "we".
You wouldn't call a lemur a human, would you? And humans will obviously use genetics in the future, and they certainly won't be homo-sapiens. Genetic
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Note the word "mammalian" in my post. Lemurs are mammals. Not that lemurs would be around by then, because their habitat would have vanished before all the places humans could live (ie. underground).
 
Moff Jerjerrod said:
What if I told you that someday, and I believe soon, God is going to appear to the whole world
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Why soon?

I haven’t read the thread beyond this point, so excuse me if you already answered this.

I think on the grand scale, our temporal lives are not even a blink of the eye.
 
With all this talk of what if God revealed himself, it makes you wonder why it hasn't happened yet.

What we have on our hands is a sort of Fermi paradox. If there are gods out there, why haven't they done anything to even hint at their existence to us? Gods are by definition all-knowing, so they know we are looking for them! And not a peep
 
Because any god that reveals itself must logically be immediately destroyed by a much more powerful god which values its own survival
 
Arwon said:
Because any god that reveals itself must logically be immediately destroyed by a much more powerful god which values its own survival
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So the gods are hiding from each other? That actually makes a lot of sense. But, if that's the case, what good is it to be a god if you always have to be hiding and you can't do anything in the universe that might disturb it and reveal your location? So you have to sit there and be quiet for eternity, that doesn't sound fun at all, whether you're a god or not.

If there's multiple gods, they are probably in cahoots.
 
warpus said:
With all this talk of what if God revealed himself, it makes you wonder why it hasn't happened yet.

What we have on our hands is a sort of Fermi paradox. If there are gods out there, why haven't they done anything to even hint at their existence to us? Gods are by definition all-knowing, so they know we are looking for them! And not a peep
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But if a god exists and reveals itself and makes it clear how it acts and influences things, there is no longer any room for the human imagination and thus no room for faith either. No one prays to gravity or other phenomena even with partial knowledge.
Maybe those gods need to feed off human faith (and occasionally blood), to fight other space-gods, like the aztec one did :)
Or maybe they have since branched out to the larger biomasses on earth, such as ants. If they could get them to have some version of "faith", humans would be superfluous. After all, "deus est anima brutorum".
 
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warpus said:
So the gods are hiding from each other? That actually makes a lot of sense. But, if that's the case, what good is it to be a god if you always have to be hiding and you can't do anything in the universe that might disturb it and reveal your location? So you have to sit there and be quiet for eternity, that doesn't sound fun at all, whether you're a god or not.

If there's multiple gods, they are probably in cahoots.
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Sorry this was a specific joke about the dark forest solution to the Fermi paradox
 
Having the power to bring the dead back to life (in nice healthy shape, vampires, mummies, zombies and such don't qualify) is the minimum requirement I would demand to a deity. So if any being is able to do that I will consider it a god at all effects. Things as creating or modifying the universe at will would be an extra of course.
 
Thorgalaeg said:
Having the power to bring the dead back to life (in nice healthy shape, vampires, mummies, zombies and such don't qualify) is the minimum requirement I would demand to a deity. So if any being is able to do that I will consider it a god at all effects. Things as creating or modifying the universe at will would be an extra of course.
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Most of those dead would be over 75/80 year olds. Even if they come back, it will only hasten the collapse of welfare systems.
Besides, anyone with sufficient resources and tech can clone or mechanically recreate their likeness, it doesn't have to be a "god".
Nor would modifying or even creating "the universe" prove something is a god; it might just be you are in a tiny microcosm experiment. Or it could also be induced hallucination, which would cost less.
 
Kyriakos said:
Most of those dead would be over 75/80 year olds. Even if they come back, it will only hasten the collapse of welfare systems.
Besides, anyone with sufficient resources and tech can clone or mechanically recreate their likeness, it doesn't have to be a "god".
Nor would modifying or even creating "the universe" prove something is a god; it might just be you are in a tiny microcosm experiment. Or it could also be induced hallucination, which would cost less.
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So there is no way for something to prove it is a god?
 
Bonyduck Campersang said:
So there is no way for something to prove it is a god?
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I think that's right. Through mankind's history, the gods or divine beings that have tended to 'survive' are the ones whose existence is an article of pure faith. I think part of why the Abrahamic religions supplanted so many of the ancient religions is because so many of the ancient religions were efforts to understand natural phenomena and didn't stand up to scrutiny. It's the metaphor of Saint Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland: As humanity's rational understanding of the natural world grew, we no longer needed the supernatural explanations*. Nobody could believe in Quetzalcoatl today, even if they wanted to, because Quetzalcoatl was supposed to be the god of wind and rain, and to manifest as a snake (a winged snake, at that). I think the Abrahamic religions flourished in part because they don't even try to provide a rational explanation, they just tell us to believe. People who genuinely believe in God don't really need evidence, in the scientific sense. People who believe in God might point to natural phenomena - the beauty of a sunset or the joy we feel from a baby's laughter - as 'evidence' of the divine, but that's an interpretation that rests on the faith they already had. It's the circular reasoning that I mentioned earlier. Or they might point to something that science hasn't explained yet, but that doesn't fly either, because of humanity's history of explaining things we previously thought were supernatural or divine. I think when a person of faith tries to show the agnostic person their 'evidence', that's them trying to reach out to us and speak to us in a language they hope we might understand. They don't actually need evidence. Heck, even asking for evidence kind of betrays a weakening faith, doesn't it? Some people of faith even think their faith is all the stronger if it flies in the face of the evidence, as though that's some kind of strength of character, or commitment, or something. I realize I'm reaching here, but the fact is I really don't understand it. I can only try to grasp the fringe loonies by understanding them as political entities knowingly preying on people - the Taliban - or as individuals with mental illnesses - Jim Jones (although most cult leaders are also predators taking advantage of people for their own, nonspiritual ends - Keith Raniere has been in the news lately - in addition to being people with troubled minds of their own).



* The story of St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland had to be some kind of parable even at the time, because people from other parts of Europe had already seen that there were no snakes in Ireland, hundreds of years before he was even born. So that legend was never true, in any way, and could only ever have been thought to be true by people who already believed in the divinity of saints and rejected (or were ignorant of) the documented observations of the people who came before them.
 
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