Pikachu said:
So you admit that you don’t have any evidence that ordinary people believed in love before the industrial revolution after all? I guess I was right then.
6 billion people are testament to the fact that love is part of the human experience and has been a part of it for the last 100,000 years (if not longer). Are you claiming that mothers do not love their children? Or didn't until recent times? Your ridiculous claim would say that native Americans did not know what love was until long after the arrival of the white man. Here are some NA love stories that were written down from oral traditions:
“The Kachina Mana Maiden,” a Hopi tale of a lovely young woman who has many suitors but is waiting for the one she has seen in her dreams. He appears but is pulled away by his own destiny, to become a great warrior.
In the Pima tale, “Enemy Love,” a young man becomes captured by Apaches, grows to manhood as a captor and falls in love with the daughter of the chief, with whom he plans to escape.
The Yurok tale, “Girl of the Yurok,” follows a young girl who was promised in marriage by her father to the son of a creditor when she was but three years old. When she grew of age, she fell in love with someone else, and they planned a dangerous escape through rugged country populated by coyotes and mountain lions.
“Kakaichu Quail” is a Tohono O'odham story following a beautiful young girl who falls in love with a young stranger from another village. Her suitor from her own village is very jealous and determined to win her for his own, even if it means cheating to win the long run to the ocean and back.
The entire sufi tradition within Islam is based on love. Chinese poetry going back 1000 years is filled with love. Common people are no different than those that rule them and if you think otherwise, please produce some evidence.
Pikachu said:
Love isn’t the only idea that makes people act that way. I have noticed that people are willing to do some crazy stuff for just about any idea they believe in. Apparently it isn’t very hard to brainwash people.
Sure alcohol and drugs will encourage people to do crazy things. Unless you actually control peoples environment, brainwashing is very difficult. But love is not the same.
Pikachu said:
No, but I believe that people believed in different ideas in the past. Their lives were very different, so I think it is fair to assume that they thought a little different about some things back then. The same would have happened to us if we were brought up under the same conditions I suppose.
Our emotions are no different, just the circumstances in which we express them. Most of how we act is encoded in our genes and not learned. Culture acts as controlling structure on our natural tendencies. marriage customs are a cultural entity that we accept as a way of keeping our natural impulses in check. It doesn't always work.
As that old children's rhyme says: "First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes...."
Pikachu said:
Commenting on love when you have never had the experience is like writing a book review after only seeing the cover. I rest my case.
Pikachu said:
So why can’t you tell me what love is???
Because words cannot capture the experience. They can only point the way. If you want to get closer to what it's all about, then read lots of love poems. I could quote 100 good ones. Or watch a mother play with her child, or get a puppy. You want to know, that is the first step to finding out.
Pikachu said:
Apparently real world experiences don’t help a bit. I have yet to see a real explanation for what love is from anybody who thinks love is important. Feel free to give it another try.
The problem is that you are looking for an explanation. Love is important to me and I have a fair amount of experience with it. I can share it with those around me; I can point at it with words; I cannot explain it.
LOVE is essentially self-communicative: those who do not have it catch it from those who have it.... No amount of rites, rituals, ceremonies, worship, meditation, penance and remembrance can produce love in themselves. None of these is necessarily a sign of love. On the contrary, those who sigh loudly and weep and wail have yet to experience love. Love sets on fire the one who finds it. At the same time it seals his lips so that no smoke comes out.
Hafiz said:
I caught the happy virus last night
When I was out singing beneath the stars.
It is remarkably contagious --
So kiss me.
Love can attain what the intellect cannot fathom
