Desmond Hawkins
Deity
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- Aug 8, 2002
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deleted.... wrong thread. 
It was supposed to be the which country is most dangerous thread.
What is REALLY going on in the American Evangelical Movement
- Thread starter Katheryn
- Start date
deleted.... wrong thread. It was supposed to be the which country is most dangerous thread.
Trajan12
Deity
What?
mangxema
I
Because hetero. couples already get it, and it's not fair for some people to get it, but not all. As Eran said, the real strict Libertarians would like to get rid of that altogether, thus making this issue irrelevant, but given the current situation in which hetero. couples do get benefits, it makes no sense that homosexual couple should not get those same benefits. They pay taxes too, so they shouldn't be shafted simply because they're homosexual.
I think this is the best course of action because if these things are done, then most of the "casual" abortions should go away. Until that happens, you're always going to have the opponents characterizing the women as reckless teens who need to keep their pants on, and the proponents the innocent rape victim.
Precisely. No benefits for anyone.
Can someone tell me why another person can say the same thing I'm trying to say without using a thousand words?
So you are for getting rid of government recognition of all marriages and getting rid of all government benefits associated with governmental recognition of marriage? That is not a position most evangelicals would endorse.
The point of the thread!
The Evangelicals are turning left.
Why?
Abortion is becoming a nonissue due to the ban on partial birth abortion (which everyone expects to be upheld by the SCOTUS) and the advances in contraception, and the morning after pill.
No, I am not a libertarian. I said that a few posts ago.
Someone was debating the definition of libertarianism.
I am more of a centrist, I am not a fan of corporatism.
Yep that's why you have states like South Dakota and Mississippi trying to legislate an outright ban on abortion - inclusdining in cases of rape and incest. that is why you have pharmacists refusing to dispense morning after pills - even to rape victims.
Now, you are not conveying the real meaning of what I was saying. The context was that I was talking about hte 'Faith Based Initiatives' and how the Bush Administration promised many to churches and then didn't give it.
The Religious Right would be the more libertarian side (ie the Republican side) of the Evangelical churches because they do not want the money that will come along with strings attached. The Religious Left did want the money and didn't care about the strings.
That is what this entire thread is about. People are hijacking it with talk of taxes, economics, gay marriage, abortion...... blah blah blah...
The point is that the Religious Right has had enough victory in the social issue that was the litmus test for them; namely abortion, and now they are ready to move on to more traditional church functions.
I'm afraid you are picking and choosing issues where there may be crossover between certain groups are assuming therefore a greater degree of agreement than really exists.
So you think that the majority view should override the minority? That's about as anti-libertarian as it gets, indeed one of the basic rationales of liberal-democracy (and the cornerstone of western political thought) is that although the government may be elected by the majority it also has a duty to prevent the tyranny of that majority over the rest.
For the record I work in a Hospital (although here in the UK of course) and like most such institutions here we do carry out TOP procedures (Termination of Pregnancy) with no objections from the medical staff I've ever heard of (and they complain about everything else trust me). The difference in my opinion is that people who support abortion aren't actually afraid to say so and in the United States all too many are.
Sorry but I work with the medical profession every day (I'm a Hospital Manager rather than a Doctor or Nurse for the record) and unless things are radically different on the other side of the Atlantic I really can't agree. You cite one example but you can't base an argument on a sample size of one I'm afraid.
I'm not a Libertarian either, I vote Liberal Democrat (that's the centre party here in the UK with the Conservatives to the Right and Labour usually to the Left).[/QUOTE]
This is the trend that is coming BECAUSE the S. Dakota measure was defeated.
And those that do not dispense the morning after pill are not Evangelicals, but Catholics. They do not believe in contraception.
I am sure that I have said several times that I am not a libertarian. Why do you ignore that?
I think you need to reread what this thread is about!
I am not "for getting rid of government recognition of marriages..."
Come on, you continually misrepresent what I have said in this thread. I have said MANY, MANY times that:
EVANGELICALS WANT GOVERNMENT TO FAVOR TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE.
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Please reread my last post where I reiterated the basic premise of this entire thread. It is about "What is really going on in the American Evangelical Movement" and what is going on is what I just posted about moving past the abortion issue (many think it is just a matter of time for the SCOTUS to deal with the issue) and moving past the gay issue (because EV Christians do not have the stomach to go after anyone) and moving on into, or rather BACK TO traditional church roles in society.
Now, look, if you are just trying to trick a EV Chrisitan (ie. me) into saying something politically incorrect or something mean or conspiratorial, please get out of this conversation. It is truly an important one for American society.
Please, just let us talk about it. I feel like antichristians are just trying to pull us off track in this conversation and it is truly undemocratic to say, "don't put your morals on others' when this is what opinion is, what dialogue is, it is discussion. We talk about what is right and wrong and form opinions on it. That is the "public square".
Favoring one group over another is not moving left. The Christian Coalition, one of the most activist politcal grouips, lost their President-elect because they made it clear to him that they would not expand their agenda beyond abortion & gay issues. The Christian faction with influence in Washington, DC is clearly staying the course.
Bah! You're rather annoying to try to talk to!
What I meant, is that this has been the traditional stance for the last 50 years fro Evangelicals.
Again, this is the point of the article!!! HELLO!
Evangelicals are moving into a more left ideology. That is the trend.
Yes, this guy was fired, but that he had to be... that he was drifting... this is the trend. Will they fire the next one, and the next one? Or will the trend continue? That is the question.
As for abortion, just because we cannot agree on when life begins doesn't mean that we should favor one of the extremes, especially the one that has the most dire consequences if it is wrong. We need to err on the side of caution.
But as has been pointed out, the best way to reduce abortion is not legislation (although I would like to see some of that) but better education and access to contraceptives. This seems to be the case in Europe, where if I remember correctly, nations with legal abortion have lower rates than those which have outlawed it. Outlawing homicide is a good idea, but eliminating it is better.
But as has been pointed out, the best way to reduce abortion is not legislation (although I would like to see some of that) but better education and access to contraceptives. This seems to be the case in Europe, where if I remember correctly, nations with legal abortion have lower rates than those which have outlawed it. Outlawing homicide is a good idea, but eliminating it is better.
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