What is the best way for Space Race victory?

[kovacsflo]

Hi!

The question in this topic is mainly not about space race itself, its about how can you start it as soon as possible? How can you have a a technologically advanced civ with good neighbours?

Lets talk about it step by step my strategy:

1. The best leader for space race. I think it is Qin Shi Huang (fin/ind), however Elizabeth (fin/phi) can cost you if you play in immortal or deity where you cant build too much wonders. The other settings I always use are in land sea (more dry land), and cooperative opponents (after all Mansa Musa, also Frederick, Elisabeth can be good friends)

2. Wait for a good map, having at least one gold mine and food resource, and several flood plains. Having marble is good, but its not essential for the chineese.

3. Start building a worker, then a warrior or scout, library and a settler. More important to discover alphabet as soon as possible, reach it by animal h. and writing. (I usually discover alphabet about bc 2000 and 2400).

4. After some tech trading, I discover code of laws and in the same turn (or a bit later), I finish Oracle to discover civil service. This is a big advantage of quick mode-I couldnt do that in marathon. Change to bureocracy in so soon (about 1500-1800), will give you a big techological advantage. Now its time to build cotteges.

5. Having good neighbours is mainly about how do you deal with them in the ancient and classical era. Try to spread your religion is a good, but expensive way, it is more important that never say no when an AI is wants from you a technology. Another idea about neighbours: give some technology to the weaker AI-s without asking: they wont be more advaned then you, but it is good for you if they research a new, but not essential tech.

6. Building other early wonders. Great Library is essential with a not PHI civ, otherwise building an academy soon will be complicated. Parthenon is important as well, mainly in the period when you have free specialist(s) in all cities. Dont build too much wonders, expansion (but not overexpansion) can cost for research.

7. Its good to discover banking for getting free specialists, but dont forget that opponents likely to discover feudalism->guild->banking. Wait for it while researching constitution for having +3 research ponts from specialists. Then use liberalism to discover democracy (that is essential but expensive tech), of course for build statue of liberty. In harder game type, you only can reach it if you dont give education to the others, anyway the others discovers liberalism before you or you must discover it before you can use it for the best goal.

8. That part of the game is the borest: being the technologically most advanced civ, you must do really nothing to win. Always give technologies the others what will helps for their research: dont discover everything yourself.

9. The space race. You can use several advices in "Ending the space race" topic. I think the most important is to start a golden age. I always use the great engineer I get from discovering fusion, and another is a great prophet or artist what cant be used else in that part of the game.

Cheers!

 

[Helmling]

I would say the key to the space race is wonder control and universal suffrage.

First, get to plastics. Drop your science to 0% for as long as it takes to bank enough money to secure the 3 Gorges Dam.

Then, max science possible to Fiber Optics--this is a low priority for the AI and they have never beaten me to it--and build Internet in your most productive city available.

Next, bee-line to Robotics and secure the Space Elevator, use universal suffrage to rush it too.

The thing the AI does is that it thinks the space race begins with rocketry. I routinely finish the Space Elevator around the same time, or even before, my Apollo program. The AI will start there and begin building casings, but those are easy. You can pop them out of less productive cities while your most productive cities are building the big components.

After this, I run to fusion to get the scientist, and then go for the tech that gives the Statis Chamber (can't remember now--genetics?). The Internet will fill in any other gaps.

If you can't get the Space Elevator, then that makes everything a little more urgent. Make sure you have laboratories in all cities, that's for sure. I usually make it a point to find and develop one city on the equator--even if I have to grab an island in the exploration phase.

 

[luckynick]

internet is most likely useless as it require that 2 other civ have the missings tech, plus it's hideously expensive and non rushable effectively locking your best prod city for many turns, i would go to mass media then robotic with qin so i steal all late game wonder to the ai effectively reducing their capacities. (of course after building the dam)

 

[Cam_H]

kovacsflo,

Thanks for your tips, however I think it's best not to repeat the same thread in multiple forums. [Edit]Has since been fixed![/Edit]

I am interested in your choice of leaders, in that I agree that Financial leaders would seem to be the way to go with a science-oriented game, but I can see arguments for other leaders' 'second' trait ... the turns saved through Mansa's lack of anarchy, the double-commerce kicker through Washington, the potential for a larger population working in high production cities with Victoria, etc. Elizabeth is a clear contender, as an early Academy in your science city and more Great Scientists are of clear benefit.

As for "Wait for a good map", I think that's a personal choice that the player has to make for themselves, but I try to play the map that's dealt to me unless I am trying to self-educate on some particular point (usually initiating ancient war, which I'm hopeless at unless playing one particular tribe, which in itself is a little self-defeating from a self-education perspective, but that's a whole other 'can of worms').

Regarding "Now its time to build cotteges", I think many players would argue that this should happen well before Civil Service has been discovered, and a few cities should be commerce-specialists quite early in the game.

There is no mention of warfare in your strategy - are you advocating a 100% defensive approach founded on scientific superiority? How do you deal with civics if you have a Buddhist Isabella and a Hindu Montezuma as neighbours? Where is the "expansion" going to come from?

I'm not being critical, but I would like to hear more of your reasoning behind the suggestions.

I do note that Helmling has mentioned The Internet, and I have found in one game (Monarch) that it allowed me to pursue tech's such as Genetics while the AI was handing me other necessary tech's that they all chase after like sheep. There is a compelling argument that The Internet is such an expensive project that you would generally be best served by just directing all of those hammers into the Spaceship and self-research. Along the same vein, The Space Elevator has been criticised for being more of a distraction than an asset. I think this is a case-by-case proposition. [Edit] Refer luckynick's post above![/Edit]

 

[Helmling]

internet is most likely useless as it require that 2 other civ have the missings tech, plus it's hideously expensive and non rushable effectively locking your best prod city for many turns, i would go to mass media then robotic with qin so i steal all late game wonder to the ai effectively reducing their capacities. (of course after building the dam)

How useless it is really depends on where the others are. In upper difficulties, I find that focusing on the techs I specified will leave gaps that the AI's will generally fill in. I usually end up getting composites that way. If nothing else, you want to prevent any AI from getting these three wonders in the end game for the spacerace.

I'm not sure what level you're playing on, but I find it very useful on Prince.

 

[ArmoredCavalry]

I'm not sure what level you're playing on, but I find it very useful on Prince.

As do I sometimes, especially if isolated from the start with those mad tech-ers(mansu being the most famous of them) on a far away continent. It is a question of whether or not you will pay 2000 hammers for 2-3 "free" techs. I honestly think it is situation dependent.

as for the war comment mention earlyer. this is great for turning AI hammers from the SS to throwing units at your 80% culture cities.

 

[kovacsflo]

Hy all!

Since I could'nt open this thread for a while, I didn't check this. Later I didn't even try it.

A fast reaction for the most important things in the thread:

Leader chosing: if you play in immortal difficulty, building the most important early wonders (most of all oracle) is very hard if you aren't an indtustrious leader. However, Elizabeth has really good abilities, it's true. Soon I will try what can she do.

Growing mostly comes from my second city. I settle it a place where at least two resources can be found, independantly the future possibilities of growing.

About diplomacy: I am a quite diplomatic player, I almost never say no to the others, I don't choose aggressive opponents and I find confucianism in a time where most leaders don't have a religion, but I can trade with them (several players convert to this religion). Just the biggest cities has some "army". Inspite of this cases, sometimes I1m attacked, it's true.

Cottages: In my strategy there is no opportunity to build cottage before civil service. In the capital the most important task is to bulid to oracle this time (maybe 1-2 cottage is being built). The other city(ies) are creating settlers and workers for the continueos expansion.