What is your FAVORITE heroe/Leader/warrior in history?

[privatehudson]

Originally posted by MCdread
Actually, they would have split it between France and Spain under the agreement made with Godoy, the spanish minister.

But sure, it is just a technicality of little importance, but with all the "troubles" in France and Ireland (and the welsh case is also dubious, cause Wales is not a part of the kingdom of England, I think, but it used to be, when it was conquered in the middle ages), the english borders haven't been as much stable.

England's borders have been stable, england is a country, all we have done is united a number of countries together since then either by crown or by act. England though has always remained an individual country to the others within the union. Since it has remained a country all it has lost is more colonies and fellow partners in a union (whether the partnership be willing or otherwise). To portray the loss of either Wales or Eire as a loss to the country of England is inccorrect as they were never really part of the country in the first place.

And whomever split the country, Portugal's borders would have changed no?

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by MCdread

Well, calgacus is from Scotland, and very proud of it, as much as you and portuguese (the poster) from Portugal, so you just have to introduce the words Britain and England. : (Although I seem to remember calgacus has a peculiar view on this, which I can't really remember...). At least we have our own independent country.

That's just trouble-making. They don't need to know where I'm from.

Originally posted by MCdread


But sure, it is just a technicality of little importance, but with all the "troubles" in France and Ireland (and the welsh case is also dubious, cause Wales is not a part of the kingdom of England, I think, but it used to be, when it was conquered in the middle ages), the english borders haven't been as much stable.

Likewise, Portugal's border's fluctuated if we count overseas possesions.

 

[MCdread]

But just to make it clear: as I said, it is a technicality without importance. What really is important in my view is when the country borns and her national identity with it, and in that way, it is obvious that there are loads of countries older than Portugal in Europe, England among them. Portugal as an independent state was born in the late XI/early XII century, but it is not a prudent approach to mention the existence of a national identity and conscience before the end of the XIV century and the sucession crisis of 1383-85.

@raen & calgacus: yes, I read that debate too, but I fail to see th fuss. Although calgacus doesn't seem very impressed with Portugal's history, he did say that in her day Portugal was a great power. He just seems to reserve the term superpower to USA and USSR and a specific historic contest, and I must say i agree with him. And this, mind you, from a person that had a couple of heated discussions with calgacus in the past.

 

[MCdread]

Originally posted by calgacus

That's just trouble-making. They don't need to know where I'm from.

It should be rather obvious with all those polls about "Should Scotland be added to Civ?"

 

[raen]

Originally posted by calgacus


That's just trouble-making. They don't need to know where I'm from.

Dont worry, I already knew it´s obvious, the polls

ok, Mcdread´s words calmed me down...I will let you alone.. for now....

 

[privatehudson]

It's perfectly obvious, nobody who lives in America is that pro-scotish unless they were born there

 

[Pangur Bán]

Well, there's Arthur Herman, the great modern historian, who recently wrote the book How the Scots Invented the Modern World: The True Story of How Western Europe's Poorest Nation Created Our World & Everything in It

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by MCdread


It should be rather obvious with all those polls about "Should Scotland be added to Civ?"

Well, the user Portuguese stills thinks I'm American

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by MCdread

@raen & calgacus: yes, I read that debate too, but I fail to see th fuss. Although calgacus doesn't seem very impressed with Portugal's history, he did say that in her day Portugal was a great power. He just seems to reserve the term superpower to USA and USSR and a specific historic contest, and I must say i agree with him. And this, mind you, from a person that had a couple of heated discussions with calgacus in the past.

A Portuguese person who agrees with me

- I'll never recover

 

[privatehudson]

Yes yes, it'll go well on the shelf with the books about the Cornish village that Jesus lived in and Daniken's books on the true history of the ancient civilisations, I file them under "b" for.... well you guess

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by privatehudson
Yes yes, it'll go well on the shelf with the books about the Cornish village that Jesus lived in and Daniken's books on the true history of the ancient civilisations, I file them under "b" for.... well you guess

Actually, Herman is a serious and elite historian. American intellectuals are taking the book seriously.

 

[raen]

Originally posted by calgacus


A Portuguese person who agrees with me

- I'll never recover

We Portuguese are open-minded, I cant say that from you.

Sorry, couldn´t held this

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by raen


We Portuguese are open-minded, I cant say that from you.

I am extremely open minded

I'm shocked that anyone would think otherwise.

 

[privatehudson]

Originally posted by calgacus


Actually, Herman is a serious and elite historian. American intellectuals are taking the book seriously.

Yes I'm sure that without Scotland the world would be in the dark ages wouldn't it? Whilst you jocks may have invented a lot, my ability to believe you created the world as we know it, and that somehow it would be so very different now is a little limited

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by privatehudson


Yes I'm sure that without Scotland the world would be in the dark ages wouldn't it? Whilst you jocks may have invented a lot, my ability to believe you created the world as we know it, and that somehow it would be so very different now is a little limited

Well, read the book then. His arguments are subtle, but I think much of what he argues is pretty convincing.

The Scots have a pretty negative image, both in the English-speaking world and (esp.) continental Europe. Portuguese, French, Italian, Scandinavian, Greek and (esp) Polish people all brag about their achievements. Scots do so rarely. If they did so more, their image might not be so bad. Also, films like Braveheart, and nationalist tendencies to portray Scotland as "Ireland II" don't help either.

 

[privatehudson]

It doesn't help when they totally screw up the history as well

Anyway, I'm not trying to say they're useless, or detract from their contribution to either europe or the UK, but I'm sorry, these things are far too intertwined to suggest that without scotland these inventions/theories would not come about or that the world would now be much worse off.

And I can't read the book, firstly I have no money and secondly I have more books I need to read than most people I know have books......

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by privatehudson
It doesn't help when they totally screw up the history as well

If you're referring to what they teach in schools, then, wow, you couldn't be more correct. The only things I was ever taught about Scottish history in school were the battles of Flodden and Culloden.

Originally posted by privatehudson

secondly I have more books I need to read than most people I know have books......

In exactly the same position

 

[ltcoljt]

Sticking to military leaders the ones that fascinate me are Lee and Hitler. Probably because of my heritage.

 

[raen]

Originally posted by calgacus


Portuguese .... people all brag about their achievements... Also, films like Braveheart, and nationalist tendencies to portray Scotland as "Ireland II" don't help either.

You putted Portuguese in first place lol I dont think so, we dont brag about the Scots achievments, we know very few about Scotland, and for us braveheart movie shows (IMO) that scotland is really cool We Portuguese battled for independence just like the Scots did (in diffrent ways of course), so we are very much alike in that. We Portuguese are always putted aside in Europe...are always the worst in everything, so I have so much to complaint as you

Dont make confusions about me because I dont like you in particular, but maybe I will change my opinion with time

PS: I am listening to Scotish music rigth now, it is marvelous

 

[privatehudson]

If you're referring to what they teach in schools, then, wow, you couldn't be more correct. The only things I was ever taught about Scottish history in school were the battles of Flodden and Culloden

Didn't we like WIN those two? Actually you're unlucky, I had a scotish history teacher for 5 years who pretty much went off lesson topics all the time to say the other matters the curriculum didn't wish to say, she excelled at reminding us about Scotish victories, mind you, only took 5 minutes to do that

And no, I meant braveheart, It's romantic nonsense that glorified a cause that whilst at it's heart was good, was not entirely as perfect as they made it out to be. The love interest between Wallace and the Queen is laughable and only good in terms of how they even managed to pull it off. It's a nice visual and musical fest, it's a pile of steaming horse manure as a history lesson though.